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Author Topic: Do Heat Shields Work?  (Read 7663 times)
lakeholme
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« on: June 23, 2007, 06:10:50 PM »

Does anybody have any exeprience with heat shields on a starter?   Huh

http://www.1tail.com/sa/p/Versa-Shield_Universal_Heat_Shield_7_x24_.htm

I know Paul mentioned this same shield in an earlier post, but his knowledge was second-hand.
I want to know if you have tried it and if it works...

Appreciate first hand opinions!  Grin
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Phillip
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2007, 10:58:23 PM »

They certainly do, Phil! Especially with headers. I had awful "heat soak" problems on my old 400--it just wouldn't crank on a hot day after you ran it unless you shorted across the solenoid with a screwdriver. It got so bad I ran remote wires and a momentary contact switch under the dash to keep from using the screwdriver. Then I discovered the wonders of DynaMat. You wrap it around the starter and solenoid and secure it with metal ties. It's not pretty, but it works. But the ultimate problem turned out to be the purple wire itself--over the years the copper had broken down and it had a lot of resistance. I replaced mine from the fuse box with a 10-gauge wire and never had anymore problems. Knock on wood...  Hope this helps, friend.
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lakeholme
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« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2007, 07:30:03 AM »

Thanks Hotrod. Yes, it does!  Already replaced the wire... but on a 90+ day here in NC (and running the AC), still won't crank --at the worst possible times!

Still like more opinions...
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Phillip
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« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2007, 05:15:09 PM »

It has been a while, but we used to use "big block" starters in our modified cars- it had heavier windings and never failed to start here in the Texas heat.

I will see if my buddy recalls the details... 
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Rob
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lakeholme
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« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2007, 07:24:17 AM »

Rob, thanks.  I would like to know the details. 
What I'm looking for is someway to preserve my "original" starter and still drive the car in the heat.  (I actually remember the Texas heat from the 60s.  Now, that's hot!)
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Phillip
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« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2007, 12:29:39 PM »

It has been a while, but we used to use "big block" starters in our modified cars- it had heavier windings and never failed to start here in the Texas heat.

I will see if my buddy recalls the details... 

I tried that on my 69 SBC, the BBC starter has a different bolt pattern than the SBC unit does, won't work.
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rich69rs
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« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2007, 06:39:24 PM »

Three basic types of heat transfer:  conductive, convective, and radiant (or combinations thereof).  Heat shields definitely reduce radiated heat transfer.  Color is also important in that a light color reflects the heat source as opposed to black which would absorb heat.  Consequently heat shields are usually nothing more exotic than bare metal stampings -  the bare metal color (silver) reflects the heat back toward the source.  Things still get warm, but not as hot as they would be without the shield.

Conversely, the body of the starter, painted black, aborbs heat.  Always wondered why the starter body was painted black insstead of some lighter color.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2007, 06:45:26 PM by rich69rs » Logged

Richard Thomas
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lakeholme
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« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2007, 08:52:57 PM »

OK, it did it again today...  Opened the hood and 10 minutes later it started!  Roll Eyes
Now, any opinions on which heat shield is best?   Huh
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Phillip
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« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2007, 05:14:04 PM »

I went through this about 10 years ago - my poor ol' 327 wouldn't start hot.  Problem was the starter itself and of course exhaust manifold heat made it worse.  Phillip, see the following - you may remember the discussion:  http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=2024.0

Also, related thread at:  http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=874.0
« Last Edit: June 30, 2007, 05:21:26 PM by rich69rs » Logged

Richard Thomas
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lakeholme
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« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2007, 09:45:31 PM »

Thanks, Richard, I do remember that thread.  Note the second post in that thread (mine).  I've already dealt with both the starter itself and wiring issues...  And even had all that checked out by my favorite auto electrical shop.  (They pointed out the exact same wiring issues that JohnZ mentions in that second thread.)

I do agree that often a wiring issue is missed, but that's not my issue here.

Still looking for opinions about best heat shield....
« Last Edit: June 30, 2007, 09:51:22 PM by lakeholme » Logged

Phillip
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« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2007, 09:29:36 PM »

I've never had this problem.  Am I just lucky, or was this not a common problem?
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68Z28
lakeholme
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« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2007, 09:38:04 PM »

Depends on how you define "common"... It does happen on some drivers and like observed above (and in the other threads mentioned), it can be in the wiring, not just the starter.  I got my wiring straight and now in hot weather, the starter still acts up (or should I say "doesn't act till it cools").  That's why I'm considering some shielding.
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Phillip
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rich69rs
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« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2007, 01:21:57 PM »

Phillip,

Are you sure it isn't the starter itself?  Worn bushings, internal dragging, etc?  If you still have stock manifolds, can't imagine why you would really need a heat shield if everything else is ok.  As I mentioned earlier, my poor ol' 327 did this until I got the starter itself squared away.

Hope yo find it soon - this is cruisin' weather!

Richard
« Last Edit: July 03, 2007, 03:57:11 PM by rich69rs » Logged

Richard Thomas
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lakeholme
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« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2007, 01:49:24 PM »

Well, I'm not above tearing it apart again.  But that would be the third time in two years.  Either way, I'm going to have an "expert" look at it this fall.  Actually, Dave, got me inspired and I'm thinking about having the whole thing repainted and some interior and motor work done this winter.  That would be the final steps in the de-cloning of this car.  (My ultimate purpose as a classic car lover...)

As for cruisin'... even having to sit for a half hour with the hood open won't stop me from cruisin'!!!  This car is a driver!  I've had trailer queens and I've got trophies and plaques on the garage wall.  Cars are made to be driven!  Grin  Grin  Grin
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Phillip
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« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2007, 10:34:44 PM »

I am still trying to get in touch with my friend ( on vacation) to see what starter we used- it had heavier windings, and a bigger "connector" between the motor and the solonoid- when I speak with him I will advise...sorry about the delay!


It has been a while, but we used to use "big block" starters in our modified cars- it had heavier windings and never failed to start here in the Texas heat.

I will see if my buddy recalls the details... 

I tried that on my 69 SBC, the BBC starter has a different bolt pattern than the SBC unit does, won't work.
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Rob
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lakeholme
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« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2007, 09:42:19 PM »

Drove the contrary car about 300 miles from the 4th until today --started perfect every time and ran great!  (I know, "Then, why complain?!?) I'm starting to think it is possessed! 

Steve asked me if it could be vapor lock.  I don't think so, but if anyone can shed some light on that, I'd appreciate it.

Still looking for more info. on heat shielding either way...  And any more starter help, period...
« Last Edit: July 06, 2007, 09:43:54 PM by lakeholme » Logged

Phillip
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« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2007, 12:40:01 AM »

My friend is still on vacation, but this is the general idea, from camaros.net, a relevant thread:

"Whatever starter you use you might want to make sure IF IT IS A STOCK TYPE that it has the big field coils in it!!

You can tell if it does b/c back on it's end opposite the snout, it will have a 3/4" long copper spacer piece that bolts the field coil strap that comes out of the housing to the back of the Bendix. This is b/c the field coils are longer and are heavy-duty!! (I.e., more torque output!!!)...

Once, I just took my old 350's big flywheel starter to the parts house and told them I wanted a h/d one that matched my snout and I ended up with a rebuilt h/d 454 vette starter.. The parts-person dug around opening boxes for about five minutes before he found it....

That's the kind of service I look for in a good parts store!!!!!

pdq67"


You can read the whole thread at:

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=50981&highlight=starter+interchange

Hope this helps, sorry I could not do better ( for now at least). I guess the kay is whether or not your block is drilled for the desired starter .
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Rob
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« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2007, 10:06:51 AM »

Does the solenoid engage or click, if so it is probably starter related. I know John Perkle installs bigger motor windings when he rebuilds starters.

Also I have had solenoid issues where it wouldn't even click when hot. The tolerances between the plunger and coils  closed up due to heat expansion and wouldn't allow the plunger to engage. That was a simple fix, I purchased a hi temp solenoid from MCCP Ron 815-648-1700. 
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lakeholme
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« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2007, 11:08:25 AM »

Thanks to both of you --that's getting right at the probable source(s) of my problem (sometimes weak engagement, sometimes click, sometimes nothing) and the best fix...  Grin
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Phillip
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« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2007, 01:05:08 PM »

This may not be your problem but it wouldn't hurt to check all of the ground conections and the + cable to the starter, making sure they all have good metal to metal contact.  I have also had heat soak problems with starters which live under headers.  I had good luck with the flexable shields which wrap around the entire starter.  Found mine at a Checker Auto Parts for about $30.

Wallace
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lakeholme
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« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2007, 09:58:24 PM »

I've already dealt with both the starter itself and wiring issues...  I do agree that often a wiring issue is missed, but that's not my issue here. Still looking for opinions about best heat shield....

I  have also had heat soak problems with starters which live under headers.  I had good luck with the flexable shields which wrap around the entire starter.  Found mine at a Checker Auto Parts for about $30.

Thanks, that's what I'm thinking about using.  Grin
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Phillip
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