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Author Topic: Production Dating a vehicle by VIN  (Read 8132 times)
Flowjoe
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« on: June 20, 2007, 03:33:33 PM »

I have two Norwood built '69s.  I would like to figure out , as close as I can, what day of the week they would have been built.

The first is VIN N638606 and has 05A on the trim tag - it is a Z/28

The second is VIN N648737 and has 05C on the trim tag - it is a 307 coupe

I know from JohnZ's article that NOR was producing 912 cars per day.  I have read in Dobbins and Incremonia's Fact book that May VIN's start with 636000 and end with 654000 at Norwood.  I know that Firebirds were also built at NOR starting in April.  May 1st 1969 was a Thursday.

Heres what I don't know:
1) how many days per week did the NOR plant operate?
2) of the 912 cars produced per day what is the split between Firebirds and Camaros? 
3) is any of my data or assumptions above incorrect?
4) can I jsut start at 636000 on May first adn add 912 per operational day unitl I get to my VIN?
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Flowjoe
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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2007, 05:51:19 PM »

No unput at all?  It's not like I'm trying to fake up a car...I just got curious about when my cars were built.  Since these two were close it seemd like a good palce to start.  If I can work out a methodology here I can apply it to my other '69s and then the '67s
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rich69rs
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« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2007, 06:47:05 PM »

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=1556.0

See above link for similar discussion.

Richard
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Richard Thomas
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Flowjoe
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« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2007, 07:24:22 PM »

Thanks for the link Richard.

OK, so no Saturday or Sunday Shifts - good to know.  We need only count the "regular" work days of the week.

I don't fully understand the necessity for the  formula of number of total units produced divided by units per day to show how many work days there were.  We can look up the beginning of a month in 66, 67, 68 or 69 and then count forward to accurately get the number of standard work days.  In May of 1969, to use my case, The month began on a Thursday and ended on a Saturday.  There are 22 possible work days...but Memorial day should have been ont he last Monday of the month (the 26th) leaving us with 21 working days.

 Since John has told us that 912 units were produced daily and we can start counting from the 1st day of the month adding 912 units per each day until we reach the range of our VIN.

using an excel spread sheet makes it easier. 

So my 05A car with VIN 638606 should have been built on  Monday the 5th toward the end of the day.

My 05C car with VIN 648737 should have been built on Tuesday the 20th a the very end of the day.

This is all well and good but did the addition of Firebird production at Norwood reduce the number of Camaros being built per day (912 total cars being built at Norwood divided in some fashion between Camaro and Firebird) or did Camaros continue to roll of the line at the rate of 912 per day and Firebirds were added to the total?

I have also assumed that Dobbins and Incremonia's data is accurate withe 638606 beinf the first VIN in May.  Am I in error here?

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Mark
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« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2007, 05:57:06 AM »

637106 is the last VIN in April as reported by GM.  That would have been the last car out the door at the end of the second shift, on April 30th, 1969.  They made roughly 13,200 Camaros during the month of May, this is arrived at by subtracting the end of April numbers from the end of May numbers.  A car with a VIN of 638606 would have already been in production as of April 30th since it took about 2 days to go from a firewall with a trim tag, to a completed rear body half.  Probably started its assembly on the Fisher side of the plant on the April 29th, and came over to GMs side of the plant on May 1st and rolled out the back door of GM on Monday May 5th, maybe very late in the day on May 2nd.
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Mark C.
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jdv69z
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« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2007, 08:35:24 AM »

I have been looking into this topic for my car since viewing this post. (just for interest sake)  My month of interest is October 1968. Based on 912 cars per day produced, and 18,204 cars produced for the month, it works very closely to 20 days of production for the month. In checking a calendar for October 1968, it appears that there were 23 possible work days in the month, i.e. Mon. thru Fri. (October 1, 1968 was a Tuesday) Would there have been 3 holidays in the month where no production was run, or??

Jimmy V.
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Jimmy V.
Flowjoe
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« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2007, 09:12:56 AM »

I have been looking into this topic for my car since viewing this post. (just for interest sake)  My month of interest is October 1968. Based on 912 cars per day produced, and 18,204 cars produced for the month, it works very closely to 20 days of production for the month. In checking a calendar for October 1968, it appears that there were 23 possible work days in the month, i.e. Mon. thru Fri. (October 1, 1968 was a Tuesday) Would there have been 3 holidays in the month where no production was run, or??

Jimmy V.

So maybe JohnZ's number of 912 cars per day is based upon no interruptions on the line (no power failures, injuries, broken machines, etc - things that may stop or slow the line), an idealized production figured based upon optimum conditions.  I'm sure that number was hit but I guess the question is whether it was hit every day the line ran.  Only John would know.

To my knowledge the only observed holiday in October is columbus day but I don't know if regular businesses observed this Holiday back in 1968...they don't generally now.  The only other "holiday" is Haloween which is obviously not observed.

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KurtS
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« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2007, 09:29:47 AM »

912 is the line rate (57/ hr) multiplied by 2 shifts (16 hours). OT and line issues would affect the actual #.

And Firebirds would be included in that #.
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Kurt S
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Flowjoe
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« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2007, 09:40:30 AM »

637106 is the last VIN in April as reported by GM.  That would have been the last car out the door at the end of the second shift, on April 30th, 1969.  They made roughly 13,200 Camaros during the month of May, this is arrived at by subtracting the end of April numbers from the end of May numbers.  A car with a VIN of 638606 would have already been in production as of April 30th since it took about 2 days to go from a firewall with a trim tag, to a completed rear body half.  Probably started its assembly on the Fisher side of the plant on the April 29th, and came over to GMs side of the plant on May 1st and rolled out the back door of GM on Monday May 5th, maybe very late in the day on May 2nd.

OK Mark, What your saying would indicate that Dobbins and Icremona's numbers are inaccurate. 

So, if I use the CRG's numbers of end of April VIN 637106 and end of May VIN 650323 (which yields 13217 cars built in May) and 21 theoretical working days I should get 19,152 cars produced in May (based upon 912 cars per day).  Obviously GM did not produce 19,152 Camaros in May of 1969 at Norwood so unless they were failing to hit prodcution goals it would argue for the 912 cars per day to be split between Camaros and Firebirds.  Can we assume an estimate of about 629 Camaros per day (13,217 units produced/21 work days) with the balance, 283, being Firebirds?  I'll have to check witht eh firebird folks to see if I can round up May'69 production totals
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Flowjoe
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« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2007, 09:41:50 AM »

912 is the line rate (57/ hr) multiplied by 2 shifts (16 hours). OT and line issues would affect the actual #.

And Firebirds would be included in that #.

Thanks Kurt Smiley
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jdv69z
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« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2007, 10:37:34 AM »

Makes sense to me. Note that my VIN is 516355 and my Trim Tag  is 10B.

Jimmy V.
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Jimmy V.
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« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2007, 04:14:56 PM »

The 912 cars per day can not be right...at least for the month of April.  I have a 69 Camaro 04C with a VIN of 636285.  That is 1,721 cars from the last 69 built in April.  Even assuming my car was built on the last day of the third week, that would mean GM only built about 340 cars per day for the last week of April (04D) not to mention I believe that there are some 04E vehicles around for those last few days of an incomplete week in April, which would reduce that 340 number even more. 

Does this sound correct?

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Flowjoe
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« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2007, 05:08:38 PM »

The 912 cars per day can not be right...at least for the month of April.  I have a 69 Camaro 04C with a VIN of 636285.  That is 1,721 cars from the last 69 built in April.  Even assuming my car was built on the last day of the third week, that would mean GM only built about 340 cars per day for the last week of April (04D) not to mention I believe that there are some 04E vehicles around for those last few days of an incomplete week in April, which would reduce that 340 number even more. 

Does this sound correct?



If I recall correctly it is during the month of April when Firebird prodcution is shifted over to Norwood.  The line would still be capable of an optium 912 units over two shifts but not all 912 units would be Camaros.  I think that we have established that line volume can be impacted by less than perfect conditions and by OT.  Unless JohnZ can tell us otherwise all we can do is estimate an average of Camaros produced per day. 

Correct me if I am missing something.
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tom
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« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2007, 01:46:40 PM »

Memorial Day was not always the last Monday in the month. Not sure what year it changed, but I think it was after 69.

Tom
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Flowjoe
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« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2007, 06:27:24 PM »

I did a quick google search to see if I could find the exact day in '69 but came up wiht everything but Smiley...so then I worked on seeing what day it is "supposed" to be...it seemed (based upon waht my search turned up) that it should be the last Monday in May in '69...I could be inerror so please correct me if I am in error.  I was perplexed because I seem to recall Memorial day falling in June when I was a kid
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