Author Topic: This stamp look ok  (Read 2907 times)

boomer632

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Re: This stamp look ok
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2023, 04:15:39 PM »
Ok.. This is directed at no particular person here or on other sites in particular so please do not be offended, as this applies to all forms of knowledge.

I feel the experts that say this stamp is good, this stamp is bad should, if asked explain how they came to that particular conclusion. The adage that this information can't be shared, or give away trade secrets of how they came to a conclusion is antiquated. The reason most commonly used to justify this is to keep one step ahead of the "fraudsters". Who does this thought process actually benefit? Potential buyers / hobbyist? Or the fraudsters? If this trade secret information was available to a potential buyer, it may prevent him / her from making a $20K-$200K mistake. If we were all armed with the proper information, fraudsters would think twice about trying to intentionally misrepresent cars. As it stands now, scammers are aware that there are far more uninformed buyers than informed. This is their motivation. For decades now scammers have scammed and will continue to do it or we wouldn't be discussing it here so frequently. So in my opinion, not sharing information has changed nothing. However the stakes are much higher now than they were 30 years ago.
I'm far from a Camaro expert and am always learning like the other 99% of the people in our Camaro hobby. That's why I come here.. to learn. This is the premier resource to learn about our cars and their history. Rather than keeping certain knowledge close to the vest, I think it should be made available to whoever wants to take the time to look for it. Current owners or potential buyers of Camaros would have the knowledge or at least a good idea what to look for in fake stamps / tags to avoid a costly mistake. The benefit of sharing the "secret" information to owners /potential buyers far outweighs how it may benefit fraudsters. It all comes down to "buyer beware" which is acquired by being informed. 
 
"Knowledge is power, knowledge shared is power multiplied."  Robert Boyce, Economist
69 SS 06A 711 57 57 X66 L78 M22 BU

bcmiller

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Re: This stamp look ok
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2023, 06:34:13 PM »
Ok.. This is directed at no particular person here or on other sites in particular so please do not be offended, as this applies to all forms of knowledge.

I feel the experts that say this stamp is good, this stamp is bad should, if asked explain how they came to that particular conclusion. The adage that this information can't be shared, or give away trade secrets of how they came to a conclusion is antiquated. The reason most commonly used to justify this is to keep one step ahead of the "fraudsters". Who does this thought process actually benefit? Potential buyers / hobbyist? Or the fraudsters? If this trade secret information was available to a potential buyer, it may prevent him / her from making a $20K-$200K mistake. If we were all armed with the proper information, fraudsters would think twice about trying to intentionally misrepresent cars. As it stands now, scammers are aware that there are far more uninformed buyers than informed. This is their motivation. For decades now scammers have scammed and will continue to do it or we wouldn't be discussing it here so frequently. So in my opinion, not sharing information has changed nothing. However the stakes are much higher now than they were 30 years ago.
I'm far from a Camaro expert and am always learning like the other 99% of the people in our Camaro hobby. That's why I come here.. to learn. This is the premier resource to learn about our cars and their history. Rather than keeping certain knowledge close to the vest, I think it should be made available to whoever wants to take the time to look for it. Current owners or potential buyers of Camaros would have the knowledge or at least a good idea what to look for in fake stamps / tags to avoid a costly mistake. The benefit of sharing the "secret" information to owners /potential buyers far outweighs how it may benefit fraudsters. It all comes down to "buyer beware" which is acquired by being informed. 
 
"Knowledge is power, knowledge shared is power multiplied."  Robert Boyce, Economist

Think as you wish.

People with decades of experience and knowledge arenít going to explain everything in extreme detail just because you want us to.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

cook_dw

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Re: This stamp look ok
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2023, 06:51:35 PM »
Ok.. This is directed at no particular person here or on other sites in particular so please do not be offended, as this applies to all forms of knowledge.

I feel the experts that say this stamp is good, this stamp is bad should, if asked explain how they came to that particular conclusion. The adage that this information can't be shared, or give away trade secrets of how they came to a conclusion is antiquated. The reason most commonly used to justify this is to keep one step ahead of the "fraudsters". Who does this thought process actually benefit? Potential buyers / hobbyist? Or the fraudsters? If this trade secret information was available to a potential buyer, it may prevent him / her from making a $20K-$200K mistake. If we were all armed with the proper information, fraudsters would think twice about trying to intentionally misrepresent cars. As it stands now, scammers are aware that there are far more uninformed buyers than informed. This is their motivation. For decades now scammers have scammed and will continue to do it or we wouldn't be discussing it here so frequently. So in my opinion, not sharing information has changed nothing. However the stakes are much higher now than they were 30 years ago.
I'm far from a Camaro expert and am always learning like the other 99% of the people in our Camaro hobby. That's why I come here.. to learn. This is the premier resource to learn about our cars and their history. Rather than keeping certain knowledge close to the vest, I think it should be made available to whoever wants to take the time to look for it. Current owners or potential buyers of Camaros would have the knowledge or at least a good idea what to look for in fake stamps / tags to avoid a costly mistake. The benefit of sharing the "secret" information to owners /potential buyers far outweighs how it may benefit fraudsters. It all comes down to "buyer beware" which is acquired by being informed. 
 
"Knowledge is power, knowledge shared is power multiplied."  Robert Boyce, Economist


You are missing the point of CRG (at least in my opinion).  This is a forum and website used to help arm people with knowledge.  It is done on a daily basis.  It comes from years of experience from everyone.  We as a whole are always learning and should continue.  The information is out there if you are willing to put in the work and research.  I do it as/for the hobby.  I have helped anyone that has reached out privately but I will only give opinions based of data collected.  It is not always cut and dry when looking at one thing or another and its the accumulation of said data that helps make educated decisions.  I would much prefer me ask the people here if something looks ok vs having it plastered it all over the net; as Bryon has mentioned, to make it even harder to tell fake cars/parts from real.  You are missing the forest due to the trees.  But that is only my opinion.

68 Ragtop

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Re: This stamp look ok
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2023, 06:58:28 PM »
After looking at thousands of stamps over many years you can kind of tell what looks normal and what does not. That is what most people use to form an opinion. Of Course, there are stamp anomalies that only the most experienced people can form an expert opinion on, and I am not one those people. My comment about it looking funny, means just that. It looks like something happened to this stamp after it left the factory to disturb the stamp and pad finish, and possibly at the factory to cause the last 3 digits to be deeper.
Here are some good pads and stamps, and you can see the last 2 digits on one of them look deeper, so that could happen.

Bottom line is, does someone want to but all that time and effort in on this car, and have a funny looking stamp? In my opinion, its way overpriced for what's there, what it will take to get it finished, and what the final product will be worth. For some unfair reason, the 68 model year is worth less than the 69, and is harder to prove than the 67 and 69 due to trim tag information missing.

MO

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Re: This stamp look ok
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2023, 05:47:19 AM »
Boomer, plain and simple; information is held in order to not arm the mischievous. I for one appreciate that.

dannystarr

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Re: This stamp look ok
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2023, 03:10:14 PM »
Well, as the original poster, that turned into something I didn't expect. I understand both sides of this discussion. I got hammered for asking about cars too often. And expecting that it only takes 10 seconds to check the DB, I was wrong. So I have and will continue to curtail my requests. I figured the stamp was deeper on the right, like the samples above, and lighter on the left, because the gang holder was held at a slight angle. Maybe that is partially true at times. What I don't understand is what looks like sand blasting, and the removal of the factory broaching for a number's repair/change. Maybe there are some samples of that being done at the factory. I, and it seems MANY other people, had never saw that before. My friend has decided to pass on this car due to the stamp, and partially because of the price. Thanx for all the info that CAN be released. D

bcmiller

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Re: This stamp look ok
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2023, 02:26:37 AM »
The sandblasting or shot peening on the pad of this block is not factory. Why was it done? I donít know.

The database is a research tool used by some of the core members. It was never meant to be something that somebody could ask questions about a particular car and get responses. I have helped collect data on hundreds of cars. Some of that data was obtained with the owner being told the data would be kept confidential. We are always looking for and adding new datapoints.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

black69

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Re: This stamp look ok
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2023, 11:11:22 PM »
I personally think its not sand blasting on the block, its exposure to the elements from being apart for a long time.  You have to look at all the other parts with that car in that link that look like it has been apart and stored badly for a long time.

A lot of things without a complete context can get you to the wrong conclusion. 

Black 69L78. 4:10, RS/SS/ZL2, 'black painted tail panel different than body','red hockey stripe w/ v-top exception'
Blue 68Z28. 4:10, Kustom 'tunnel tube' headers, Nickey sold.

 

anything