Author Topic: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS  (Read 5201 times)

RikerZ28

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1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« on: March 17, 2023, 12:23:47 PM »
Like most I always look at first generation Camaro's to keep a pulse on what is for sale and at what cost. I ran across this beautiful 1969 Z/28 RS on eBay. I looked at the pictures and attached to the listing is a video. I was most surprised the dealer was basing Jerry MacNeish
I don't know Jerry, but I did buy his book with a nice note in it, but I am surprised at what the dealer is claiming and can not fathom Jerry would miss this. Take a looks.

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/354651457519     
1969 Z/28 02D X-33 / L72

x66 714

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2023, 12:41:03 PM »
I would ask to see the rest of Jerry's report. There's several expensive things I don't like about it...Joe
See America's First, Chevrolet

1968 Z/28 Corvette Bronze. Black Hounds Tooth. 02E Los Angeles born 3/13/1968 pnt OO. Purchased March 1976
1969 SS396 Yellow/Yellow 08E Norwood born 8/28/1969 pnt 76E. Purchased April 1981

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2023, 12:47:53 PM »
Interesting to see a square mast jack assembly.  Chances its original?  Less than 50%



   
124379N673108

David K

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2023, 03:02:21 PM »
I see nothing mentioning or stating matching numbers for any drive train parts  Of course there would be a serial number by the filter, but is it the original? Lots of "date correct " parts, previous titles. Pretty sure the full report shows everything,  and the ad doesn't say the full report is available.....or did I miss something?

boomer632

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2023, 05:14:56 PM »
Well as long as the guy in video is nitpicking.. shifter knob is wrong and Ebay ad looks like two sets of numbers are stamped on filter boss.. faint "6" under and to the right of the 8  :).

It is a nice car though
69 SS 06A X66 L78 M22 BU

Dave69x33

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2023, 05:20:58 PM »
Interesting Z28 but I agree, we need to see the issues JM would have listed on the car. Based on a quick look thru the pictures, the issues that popped out to me:
1. Front stripes are not painted correctly.
2. Wrong master cylinder.
3. Engine decked and restamped pad...need to see VIN and detail view of the stamped front engine pad.
4. Incorrect routing of the power steering hoses.
5. Missing the headlight washer pump on the wiper motor and hoses to the nozzles above the headlights.  It was included on all RS '69 Camaros and non-RS Camaro with the CE1 headlight
      washer option.
6. Wrong bolt hardware: fan shroud upper center bracket and heater core hose clip on the alternator bracket...correct bolt hardware for these two spots is difficult to find.
7. RS head light doors appear to be converted to electric...the open/close rate is too fast for vacuum actuated doors (not necessarily a bad thing but depends on how much originality and
      the investment grade level one is after).
8. This is a Norwood build car...the top horizontal surface of the cowl panel should be body color; not solid black.
9. Missing the lip seal on the cowl panel that seals along the back of the hood.
10. Trunk lid mounting bolts and catch plate should be body color...the truck lid was on the car and aligned b4 paint.
11. It does appear to have the correct short ('67-'68) rear spoiler and acorn mounting nuts for an early build Z28 with D80.
12. Is the car missing the spare tire and rim and are the rims the correct code and date for the car?  Would be a bummer to have (4) correct rims and a missing spare!
13. If I recall correctly, all '69 Camaros used clear knob window crank handles. (Need to verify this one.)
14. Should have a solid chrome shifter knob; not a white knob with the shift pattern as the shift pattern is on the console. The knob on this car is for a 4-speed car w/o a console.
15. Incorrect generic replacement rear leaf springs.
16. Lower spring plate and the E-Brake cable clips should be black.
17. The axle U-bolts are too long, and the nuts on the U-bolts and T-bolts are not correct,
18. The speedometer cable is routed incorrectly UNDER the transmission. It should be secured up along the trans tunnel with special retainer clips. This is sloppy and/or rushed work
        on the restoration.  If short cuts were taken on this, what other short cuts were taken elsewhere on the car?

Again, this Z28 has potential but needs some finesse work.  Based on what I can see in a few pictures, I would not invest in this car unless a prospective buyer had a 1st Gen Camaro expert review this car and add to the list above.  As I noted, would like to see MacNeish's full report.   Overall, the car would be fun to own and drive, but again, in comes down to price and what "investment grade" car the prospective owner is after.

Good Luck!

KurtS

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2023, 06:49:16 PM »
Another ad showing just the certificate and not the appraisal report.....
Kurt S
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GMAD_Van Nuys

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2023, 07:12:04 PM »
The address and phone number of individual who paid for the Jerry MacNeigh report for this 1969 Z28 is posted on eBay.

jdv69z

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2023, 07:20:47 PM »
The front seats look strange to me. Are those 69 standard interior?
Jimmy V.

Danzo

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2023, 10:30:26 PM »
Rear stripes are wrong. Car should have a long spoiler on it being an 08C (August 69) car. Seat pattern is vertical should be horizontal.
Doc

BillOhio

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2023, 11:18:02 PM »
I would hate to be the guy that spent 17,000 under the hood and see as many things wrong as I did
1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1968 RS 327 4 speed
1967 Plymouth GTX Hemi, 4 speed, dana
1961 Chrysler 300G convertible

Danzo

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2023, 05:53:08 PM »
Youtube video. Strong dislike for JM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjiO2Ozy73c

RikerZ28

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2023, 02:49:56 PM »
Did not the D80 Spoiler become standard on 1969 Z/28 package? 08C, August is late in production. When was the change?
1969 Z/28 02D X-33 / L72

David K

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2023, 03:10:04 PM »
Danzo, you obviously watched the whole thing. After the 15th ummmmm, I moved on. What did he say about Jerry?

x66 714

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2023, 03:10:56 PM »
Did not the D80 Spoiler become standard on 1969 Z/28 package? 08C, August is late in production. When was the change?

April 1st, 1969 I believe....Joe
See America's First, Chevrolet

1968 Z/28 Corvette Bronze. Black Hounds Tooth. 02E Los Angeles born 3/13/1968 pnt OO. Purchased March 1976
1969 SS396 Yellow/Yellow 08E Norwood born 8/28/1969 pnt 76E. Purchased April 1981

David K

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2023, 03:13:43 PM »
The seats look like 68s.

Kelley W King

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2023, 09:53:41 PM »
It looks like a nice driver car much like mine. The guy needlessly bashes JM saying he did not do his job and keeps on doing it. The paperwork looks like a bunch of paper to me nothing significant to the car. If I wanted another driver I would make an offer but not from this guy.
69 Z28 RS Scuncio Hi Performance
69 SS L78
67 SS Chevelle
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David K

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2023, 10:06:14 PM »
He obviously knows more than Jerry.

william

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2023, 10:35:57 PM »
He must not have read the report. JM stated the VIN was also a re-stamp.

He's bitching up a report someone else paid for?
Learning more and more about less and less...

169INDY

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2023, 01:36:38 AM »
Dealer Double Talk.
Interesting car
Jim
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MO

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2023, 05:20:35 AM »
Always interesting when some blame others for their own misfortunes.

rocco376

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2023, 11:41:56 AM »
Definitely appears to be a trustworthy sort.  Real professional video too. ;)

camaronut

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2023, 03:58:26 PM »
"In Addition To A Correct $700 Side Post Battery Correct For An Early Production '69 Car"

First - I would question the sanity of anyone paying $700 for a side post battery - UNLESS its a NOS Delco, which wouldn't last too long,  (this car- I doubt it).  Plus - "correct for an early production car"?  I was under the impression that side post batteries were installed sometime after May 31st, 1969 - according to a GM bulletin.  That's not late to me.

I would love to see Jerry's entire report on this thing.  People with nothing to hide that are selling cars with JMN certification will always will show the entire report - not just the cert.  Then you really know what you're looking at.

william

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2023, 04:24:42 PM »
It's not an early car; final-assembled on or about August 20, 1969.
Learning more and more about less and less...

camaronut

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2023, 04:51:52 PM »
And that upside-down Cowl Induction Air Cleaner seal - UGGGHHHHHH that drives me nuts!!!  Ooooooh the pain.........lol.

Jonesy

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2023, 09:57:46 PM »
Chinese Repop Brake Booster!
Love the saggy material on the headrests. Seats are totally messed up with wrong covers on them.

So much wrong here
1967 RS-Z/28 Nantucket Blue the D-2 car
1969 RS/SS 350 4 speed Azure Turquoise
1969 Z28 Azure Turquoise

bcmiller

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2023, 11:09:28 PM »
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

68 Ragtop

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2023, 05:48:15 PM »
Youtube video. Strong dislike for JM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjiO2Ozy73c

Explain your comment.

Tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me you didn't watch the video.

https://youtu.be/IjiO2Ozy73c?t=271

Danzo

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2023, 10:22:49 PM »
Youtube video. Strong dislike for JM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjiO2Ozy73c

Explain your comment.
Pretty self explanatory, he doesn't like JM

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2023, 11:05:32 PM »
Is that $4k to have a car certified legit?  Jesus..

Kelley W King

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2023, 12:22:11 AM »
Last I heard it a little over 1k plus travel. If you check his schedule and wait for him to be in town you save or get several done and split the travel and expenses . Maybe this guy paid for travel and expenses just for one car. You also need a place with lift for him to do it. His place is in VA or Maryland so east coasters can just take the car to him.
69 Z28 RS Scuncio Hi Performance
69 SS L78
67 SS Chevelle
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77 Trans Am Special Edition

camaronut

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2023, 12:24:03 PM »
Removed my rant - I like being a member of the CRG.   :-X

68 Ragtop

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2023, 02:59:48 PM »
Did anyone watch the entire video? I tried, but had to speed up and FF parts because it's a lot of rambling.

The jist of his complaint with the inspector seems to be that he did not spend anytime verifying the partial VIN stamp in the rough cast area after discovering the DZ was a restamp. Used car salesman is saying it could be the original block that was only restamped because of decking during rebuild. And he wants you to know the owner restamped the DZ second time to try and correct the incorrect D in the stamping to make it more square. Here is the result:


camaronut

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2023, 05:59:26 PM »
That's not even a $40K car. $90K - please.

BillOhio

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2023, 06:22:46 PM »
hard to tell but looks like 2 sets of vins by the filter
1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1968 RS 327 4 speed
1967 Plymouth GTX Hemi, 4 speed, dana
1961 Chrysler 300G convertible

RikerZ28

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2023, 08:14:16 PM »
Jerry MacNeish is the expert in 1st generation Camaro's and for the cost of the inspection and years of experience even if off the bat he finds the block to be a re-stamp he is NOT going to stop there he is going to check all the other locations for the Vin# in this case by the oil filter.
I'm going to speculate that the previous owner spent a ton of money to try and make the car period correct. On 12-23-2020 he pays $1700 for the complete Smog System for one then decides to put the cherry on the top and on 6-2-2021 has JM over to do the report and find that it just might not have its born with engine. Only the detailed report will tell us that.
The owner decides to sell it and as discussed here many times only the certificate is shown to the perspective buyer (ie. this car dealer) He pays a lot of money for it and after the fact he finds in the pile of paperwork the complete report from Jerry.
Why else is would this guy be so upset with Jerry!
I agree with all the other items that have been pointed out above this is a $40K car, but sure love the Burgundy paint!     
1969 Z/28 02D X-33 / L72

camaronut

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2023, 09:05:40 PM »
The seats in this car make me wanna hurl.  I just canít get over it.  Amazing.

MO

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2023, 05:44:44 AM »
They always want to shoot the messenger when the result doesn't fit their narrative.

Kelley W King

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2023, 11:49:45 AM »
If JM,s report confirms it is a real Z28 I think 40 is a little short. It is hard to find a 1st gen where the rust is gone or never existed that drives for  little less than 40 much less a Z. I see two numbers in the vin area also.
69 Z28 RS Scuncio Hi Performance
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camaronut

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2023, 02:48:24 PM »
If everything else on the car was down-right 100% date coded correct - every nut & bolt- tires, then I would totally agree that $40k is short.  Personally, I would have been embarrassed to have Jerry look at this car in the first place.  Obviously the owner or whoever they are didn't know what they were doing.  I've known Jerry for a long time, and he is the most honorable person in this Camaro hobby.  I wish the guy would take a pic of the full report and show the car for what it is.  It may be a real Z, but w/o the factory installed - born with DZ engine, its just another Camaro to me.

BTW, why are we yakking about this car so much!!!!  LOL!

Please excuse - I'm having another bad morning.  Where's Sauron327 when we need him!!!

Chuck-68-Cam

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2023, 03:10:01 PM »
Because I am still a novice to all this, is it possible to as JM for the full print out?
Chuck

68 Camaro SST 350/TH400

MO

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2023, 05:56:47 AM »
That would be great, but I think it would be unfair to the person that paid for the initial report. That person probably owns the rights to the report. I suppose those rights are transferred when the vehicle is sold.

RikerZ28

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2023, 04:11:10 PM »
Any of us as perspective lookers or buyer should/could reach out to the seller and ask for a copy of the report. And as a seller the information should be provided? Wither it is ethical or legal to make it available for this discussion?? 
1969 Z/28 02D X-33 / L72

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2023, 04:33:01 PM »
I believe a perspective buyer can pay MacNeish for a copy of the full reports iirc.

Vince

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2023, 04:38:22 PM »
It's been 7 years now but when I was researching 1st gen Camaros to buy I ran across a '67 SS396 that was advertised as having a report from Jerry.  I contacted him and he provided me with a full report on the car.  I don't remember the price or fee he charged. 

MO

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2023, 05:54:58 AM »
Any of us as perspective lookers or buyer should/could reach out to the seller and ask for a copy of the report. And as a seller the information should be provided? Wither it is ethical or legal to make it available for this discussion?? 

I agree. Every seller should willingly provide any documentation available to validate their claims of history or authentication. Doubt they will if it is unfavorable however. 

Badshifter

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2023, 04:16:18 AM »
Beating a dead horse but that looks like an early 67-68? Trunk lid that has been hole sawed for the spoiler install. Itís not a late 69 lid for sure.
1969 Z28 X77 09C

R68GTO

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2023, 11:50:12 PM »
Once the spoiler became standard equipment on Z28's in April of 1969, did they drop the D80 designation on the trim tag?  I'm looking at an 04C Burgundy Z with spoilers - no D80 on the trim tag, just X33.
1969 427 COPO Camaro Lemans Blue/Black, M22 4 speed, 15,500 original miles

rszmjt

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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
« Reply #48 on: May 05, 2023, 02:28:12 PM »
Once the spoiler became standard equipment on Z28's in April of 1969, did they drop the D80 designation on the trim tag?  I'm looking at an 04C Burgundy Z with spoilers - no D80 on the trim tag, just X33.

My 06A RSZ28 has X33D80 on trim tag, owned the car since 1974 GM Canada docs