Author Topic: Camaro Books  (Read 4494 times)

Petes L48

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Re: Camaro Books
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2023, 10:04:30 PM »
Thanks for the input 69z. I found a link for the Legends Judging Manual, Is this the newest?

https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=173652



I see on the 2023 Camaro Nationals website, at the bottom of this webpage, there's a contact email address for ordering the 69 manual, so one might assume the 67-68 are also now available to order.  Also states they can ship to you. 

https://camaronationals.org/camaro-legends-1969-judging-manual-now-available/


MO

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Re: Camaro Books
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2023, 05:48:12 AM »
Thanks for the input 69z. I found a link for the Legends Judging Manual, Is this the newest?

https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=173652



It just recently came out, so yes.

MO

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Re: Camaro Books
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2023, 05:52:25 AM »
HEY! Don't forget
1981
"CAMARO! Chevy's Classy Chassis"

I still use it

Come on, it's really not that bad!
« Last Edit: February 25, 2023, 06:24:46 AM by MO »

David K

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Re: Camaro Books
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2023, 06:25:00 PM »
.02 below.

10 or more years before the World Wide Web was a word any of us ever heard of, books were all we had. I remember seeing more than a dozen Camaro books back in the 80s and early 90s. I assumed they were all accurate and were factually correct in every aspect. But we all know different now. See below for the CRG. link of some that were available.

http://www.camaros.org/crgrefs.shtml

Kudos to anyone who coughed up the big money, put a solid effort to publish information they believed to be true and accurate, put their reputation on the line, and did what none of us had done. Kudos is actually a huge understatement. Are there some books that more or less just published already published data/pictures etc? Yes there are. I wouldn’t say they are coffee table books for anyone who is new to the hobby. Because there are always new people to the hobby who know nothing about the cars, except they like them.

One thing that gets seriously overlooked from the start is who did the person who put the book together get their information from? I guarantee there were hundreds if not thousands of hours of research, questions, travel, looking at cars, phone calls via landline to get answers just to name a few.

Camaronut and 69Z28RS, I would respectfully disagree with you about “Hoppers books” because there are (stand by while I search) at least 7 (Give credit to Donna Crispino as well) and they are all different. Data book/Reference/Recognition/Pace Car. That to me means at the time it’s the most accurate available at the time of printing. But it’s subject to change when new or more accurate information becomes available. Is some just reprinted? Absolutely. Was there a lot of new pictures/information/listing of parts numbers/casting numbers now available in 1 book? Yes! And not having to have several books to lug to Carlisle or any swap meet was awesome.

I remember Hooper and I had a few discussions about book content after his 69 Reference book was published. I immediately called him out on NOT having any 6 cylinder information. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Zero. Once again, the 20% bread and butter club that’s an afterthought got left out of another book. Still a huge part of sales totals nonetheless.

Jerry’s book is a “Definitive Fact”. That means everything inside is most accurate available at the time of printing. Everything inside the covers is gospel till the end of time. Period. No Legends Judge can question anything. Just reprint. And while I don’t agree with the title, I give kudos (again a huge understatement of a word) to Jerry for getting it done. Money and reputation on the line. Nobody else stepped up in this very specific option which I double dog dare any of us to do. Hell, this book was printed at least a decade before “Legends” was even used.

Is the Legends manual 100% spot on from cover to cover? I understand the 6 cylinder section is incomplete so I can’t spend my money just yet.

Frank incremona printed a 67-69 Fact book in 1984! I wonder how accurate that is compared to what we know today?

So click the link above, look at them for what they are, empower your knowledge, be kind, rewind. Or better yet, publish your own.

Enjoy your weekend.



Chuck-68-Cam

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Re: Camaro Books
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2023, 09:34:14 PM »
Nice write up Dave. Funny, the link you posted to reference material was the reason I stated this post. There was no way I was buying all those books. I figured it could be narrowed down to two or three books.
Chuck

68 Camaro SST 350/TH400

bertfam

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Re: Camaro Books
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2023, 12:00:05 AM »
An old thread but still pretty valid. THESE are the books I always tell people to start out with.

Ed

Chuck-68-Cam

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Re: Camaro Books
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2023, 12:45:57 AM »
Thanks ED  :D
Chuck

68 Camaro SST 350/TH400

ko-lek-tor

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Re: Camaro Books
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2023, 04:54:25 AM »
Don’t take the judging manual as gospel. Do your own research. There are some disputed info.
Bentley to friends :1969 SS/RS 396 owned 79
1969 SS 350 (sold)
1969 D.H.COPO replica 4spd. owned since 85
1967 302 4 spd 5.13

David K

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Re: Camaro Books
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2023, 05:46:27 AM »
Ko-leak-tor, that doesn’t sound like good news. Disputed information about what should be correct? Ouch.

Pacecar

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Re: Camaro Books
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2023, 10:23:17 PM »
The 1969 Legends Judging Manual has been available since November, 2021. The 67/68 has been available since November, 2022. Both can be purchased through the Camaro Association's website or to be shipped thru the link. Also, the manuals can be purchased from any of the Legends judges.  All proceeds when purchased thru these sources go towards the judging program and to support the Nationals.

Manuals can also be purchased from three Camaro parts vendors.

Camaro Legends is the 5000 point concours judging program at the Nationals. Cars are judged for what is "assembly line correct" This will be the 24th year of Legends judging, prior to that it was the Red White & Blue of the ICC.

We are more than grateful for the work of the CRG.

The Assembly manuals are great resources. But they don't show the level of detail needed when doing a "correct" restoration. The Legends manuals cover component finishes, specific appearances of hardware, and more. I don't know another resource that goes into the detail of the interior or trunk compartment. Not to mention the undercarriage and engine compartment. Plus all the changes in components over the course of the model year and there are a lot.  And we show all this with great color photos.

We thought we did a great job with the 1969 manual. We chose not to duplicate block casting #'s, alternator #'s etc which were readily available elsewhere.  We put more into the 67/68 manual for photos. And we also chose to list some of the lesser known component #'s such as pulleys, the 3 quadrajet versions, and fuel pumps. I think the 67/68 Legends Manual is over the top but I have a bias.

67conv6cyl

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Re: Camaro Books
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2023, 02:57:52 AM »
I think I have every Camaro book and I feel the 67/68 legends manual is a must have if you are restoring a 67 or 68 to factory correct. I have enjoyed learning things from this manual.

cook_dw

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Re: Camaro Books
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2023, 01:32:36 PM »
The 1969 Legends Judging Manual has been available since November, 2021. The 67/68 has been available since November, 2022. Both can be purchased through the Camaro Association's website or to be shipped thru the link. Also, the manuals can be purchased from any of the Legends judges.  All proceeds when purchased thru these sources go towards the judging program and to support the Nationals.

Manuals can also be purchased from three Camaro parts vendors.

Camaro Legends is the 5000 point concours judging program at the Nationals. Cars are judged for what is "assembly line correct" This will be the 24th year of Legends judging, prior to that it was the Red White & Blue of the ICC.

We are more than grateful for the work of the CRG.

The Assembly manuals are great resources. But they don't show the level of detail needed when doing a "correct" restoration. The Legends manuals cover component finishes, specific appearances of hardware, and more. I don't know another resource that goes into the detail of the interior or trunk compartment. Not to mention the undercarriage and engine compartment. Plus all the changes in components over the course of the model year and there are a lot.  And we show all this with great color photos.

We thought we did a great job with the 1969 manual. We chose not to duplicate block casting #'s, alternator #'s etc which were readily available elsewhere.  We put more into the 67/68 manual for photos. And we also chose to list some of the lesser known component #'s such as pulleys, the 3 quadrajet versions, and fuel pumps. I think the 67/68 Legends Manual is over the top but I have a bias.



Am I wrong in assuming that the errors that have been found (cause I know there has to be some in a first attempt of writing a manual) are currently being corrected and that there will be a new version of the 69 and of course the 67/8 manuals?  I do not own either but I was contacted by a few folks regarding info and of concerns of some questionable data.  Was that corrected before release?  I can't say as I do not feel like throwing mud at something or someone that I feel is potentially doing good for the hobby.  I will say; if my opinion matters at all (which I know it doesn't  ;) ), I would strongly encourage the folks working on this to bust up all three years as there are many differences between 7 & 8. 

67conv6cyl

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Re: Camaro Books
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2023, 10:52:54 PM »
In my opinion they do a great job in the 67/68 manual showing differences in the 67 and 68 models…it’s actually good to see them both in the same manual because you can compare the different parts easily thus allowing you to determine if your part is correct for your year (and sometimes even build month) I have not seen the 69 manual however I was thinking it would be okay if they combined all three years. I learned from the manual some of the subtle difference between the two years that I didn’t know before.

68camaroz28

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Re: Camaro Books
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2023, 02:31:32 PM »
The 1969 Legends Judging Manual has been available since November, 2021. The 67/68 has been available since November, 2022. Both can be purchased through the Camaro Association's website or to be shipped thru the link. Also, the manuals can be purchased from any of the Legends judges.  All proceeds when purchased thru these sources go towards the judging program and to support the Nationals.

Manuals can also be purchased from three Camaro parts vendors.

Camaro Legends is the 5000 point concours judging program at the Nationals. Cars are judged for what is "assembly line correct" This will be the 24th year of Legends judging, prior to that it was the Red White & Blue of the ICC.

We are more than grateful for the work of the CRG.

The Assembly manuals are great resources. But they don't show the level of detail needed when doing a "correct" restoration. The Legends manuals cover component finishes, specific appearances of hardware, and more. I don't know another resource that goes into the detail of the interior or trunk compartment. Not to mention the undercarriage and engine compartment. Plus all the changes in components over the course of the model year and there are a lot.  And we show all this with great color photos.

We thought we did a great job with the 1969 manual. We chose not to duplicate block casting #'s, alternator #'s etc which were readily available elsewhere.  We put more into the 67/68 manual for photos. And we also chose to list some of the lesser known component #'s such as pulleys, the 3 quadrajet versions, and fuel pumps. I think the 67/68 Legends Manual is over the top but I have a bias.



Am I wrong in assuming that the errors that have been found (cause I know there has to be some in a first attempt of writing a manual) are currently being corrected and that there will be a new version of the 69 and of course the 67/8 manuals?  I do not own either but I was contacted by a few folks regarding info and of concerns of some questionable data.  Was that corrected before release?  I can't say as I do not feel like throwing mud at something or someone that I feel is potentially doing good for the hobby.  I will say; if my opinion matters at all (which I know it doesn't  ;) ), I would strongly encourage the folks working on this to bust up all three years as there are many differences between 7 & 8. 

And I agree since helping with a team effort on restoring a 67 there are a lot of differences between the 67 and 68 but do applaud the efforts with the current manual and suggest for anyone doing a serious restoration to have for reference.
To review a lot of info conerning a restoration of a '68 check this thread out, http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=18398.0;all
Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584

camaronut

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Re: Camaro Books
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2023, 03:26:00 PM »
Don’t take the judging manual as gospel. Do your own research. There are some disputed info.

Absolutely.  Couldn't agree more.  I hate seeing defining statements in these books.

 

anything