Author Topic: 69 Headlight washer system T-Valves & Y-Connector - Follow-up  (Read 6056 times)

Dave69x33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
    • View Profile
I originally posted a few questions on this topic years ago but need to follow-up with a few more questions.

I need to find a source to replace the Y-Connector fitting on my headlight washer hoses shown below.  Thanks to CRG member Edgemontvillage for this photo showing the restoration on this wiper motor and washer pump assembly. BTW...he does outstanding work!  I am going to reverse engineer a CAD file on the Y-Connector and find a source that can rapid prototype it if I cannot find a source that already reproduces it. I believe Corvettes and other Chevrolets from that time period ('69 - '72?) that had headlight washers may also use the same or similar fitting. This connector was used on '69 Camaros that came with the RS or CE1 (non-RS) headlight washer option.,

I need to also fine a source that makes accurate wiper motor foil decals with part number and date code as shown. This is the decal Edgemontvillage posted in his thread. The font and offset typeset is spot on.  I found sources on the internet for the foil decals but they are not as accurate.

Thanks in advance for your tips and recommendations!
Dave

Dave69x33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
    • View Profile
Re: 69 Headlight washer system T-Valves & Y-Connector - Follow-up
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2023, 05:46:07 PM »
BTW, I purchased a Y-Connector from Kevin Wright out of Perrineville, NJ back in about 2006.  That connector became brittle and I noticed last night it broke into (3) pieces, with a portion of the connector in the end of the (3) hoses.  I believe Kevin had a mold made and had a batch of the connectors made.  Unfortunately I no longer have Kevin's contact info.

If anyone has Kevin's contact info, I would greatly appreciate it!

KevinW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 862
    • View Profile
Re: 69 Headlight washer system T-Valves & Y-Connector - Follow-up
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2023, 12:25:43 AM »
I still have my mold, but have not done any molding in many years. I might still have one from the run I did long ago, but I will have to see if mine are brittle too.  Did you have it mounted and the underhood heat may have effected it?

KevinW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 862
    • View Profile
Re: 69 Headlight washer system T-Valves & Y-Connector - Follow-up
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2023, 12:27:07 AM »
With todays 3-d printing that might be the way to go, but I do not have that setup :(

Dave69x33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
    • View Profile
Re: 69 Headlight washer system T-Valves & Y-Connector - Follow-up
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2023, 01:21:34 AM »
Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the quick reply. I had the fitting mounted in place since 2006. Perhaps the under hood heat effected the plastic. I had to run hot water over and thru the hoses to soften them to pull out the broken off tube pieces from the hoses.  Otherwise the plastic would break apart with the small needle nose pliers.

Dave

David K

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
  • Dr. Longblock
    • View Profile
Re: 69 Headlight washer system T-Valves & Y-Connector - Follow-up
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2023, 01:50:20 AM »
Dave,
Is this for a high end car?

Dave69x33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
    • View Profile
Re: 69 Headlight washer system T-Valves & Y-Connector - Follow-up
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2023, 03:22:32 PM »
David K,

It’s for my highly optioned ‘69 RS Z28 that I purchased in 1995, and restored between 1995-2000.  During the 2000 Camaro Nationals held in Columbus, OH, I was honored to score 973/1000 for a Gold Award. Over the years I have learned more details about 1st Gens and accurate restorations, and specifically on the ‘69 since that is what I own. CRG has been one of my favorite go-to sites.  It’s a great fraternity of 1st Gen Camaro folks, and contains a ton of resources.

Each winter I pick a part or area on my car to correct, update, or redo components. I drive my Z28 so an occasional component refresh is necessary. For example the plating on the brake booster and master cylinder lid needed a refresh, or tackle the RS headlight component to troubleshoot why my headlight doors will not fully open and close, or find a correct date coded part that was not either not available, or I could not justify purchasing, at the time I restored my car.  My “anal Camaro originally” side of me wants to find NOS parts if they are the most appropriate source, or source accurate quality reproduction parts that may be available.  Input from folks on CRG has been a big help. This winter’s projects include a correction on my wiper motor, replacing the old broke Y-connector hose fitting, and painting the front calipers and the brake proportioning valve black.

More recently I have been making corrections I learned about from the ‘69 Vintage Judging Manual, and/or from reading Jerry MacNeish’s books and certification reports. This past November I help coordinated a group of (6) Camaros for JM to evaluated in the Indianapolis area where I live. Unfortunately, due to some unexpected home expenses that popped up, I had to pull my car from the group. I did attend the evaluation on (2) very nice ‘69 Z28s and got to meet Jerry and Norm, Jerry’s assistant who schedules the trips and certifications. I helped a friend get his very original ‘69 JL8 Z28 (interestingly built in Norwood the same month as my Z28) to the shop where JM was doing the evaluations.  The engine and trans were out of his car at the time so we loaded his car in my trailer, and the engine, transmission, and some parts in his truck; a challenging but fun vacation day!  I plan to reschedule with JM sometime in 2023.

All told I guess I cannot “leave well enough alone”. It’s like the Hertz Rental Car commercial that was popular a couple years ago…when my wife ask “I thought you said the Camaro was done!?!  My response, “Not exactly.”  It’s the “exact” part of my response that gets me in trouble…LOL!

David K

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
  • Dr. Longblock
    • View Profile
Re: 69 Headlight washer system T-Valves & Y-Connector - Follow-up
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2023, 02:57:00 AM »
I get the “almost done”. I calculated how much I was willing to spend to factory correct numbers matching my 68 back in 1993 after wrecking it. It was just way too much to contemplate, and so I just did a stock resto with the factory options I picked up along the way to upgrade it.
I also know a car like yours is a commitment all the way, but the piecemeal is definitely the way to approach it. Curious where your 27 points went.

Dave69x33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
    • View Profile
Re: 69 Headlight washer system T-Valves & Y-Connector - Follow-up
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2023, 05:10:53 PM »
DaveK,

Good question. That award is dated June 18, 2000.  I’ll dig up the score sheet and post them as I don’t recall where I lost points.

Dave69x33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
    • View Profile
Re: 69 Headlight washer system T-Valves & Y-Connector - Follow-up
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2023, 08:40:50 PM »
I found my judge sheets from what was called the Worldwide Camaro Association and the US Camaro club (USCC) in the 1990's thru early 2000. The USCC would hold shows and judge events around the US. I attended a few in the Midwest to see how judging was done, and see a lot of very nice restored Camaros.  I finished the restoration on my '69Z in early 2000 and attended the show held in Columbus, OH.  I could have returned the following year for the Diamond Class judging but could not attend.  The Diamond Class judging then was on par with the Legend level judging done today evaluating originality, accuracy/authenticity including correct "factory released" date coded components, cleanliness, and correct color finishes, plating, etc., and that everything functions.  Keep in mind that an NOS part could be a GM dealer service part, which may be slightly different than what was originally installed on the Camaros when they rolled off the assembly line. 

I have not been to a Camaro Nationals show with judging since 2000, but I believe the judging format, depending on the level you are going for, is similar to the judge sheets shown below.  Much has changed since 2000 and we now have access to more reference materials that provide documented detail on 1st Gen Camaros not available 20+ years ago, thanks to folks like Jerry MacNeish and his 1st Gen Fact Books and certification reports, Alan Colvin's Chevrolet by the Numbers books, the Legends Judging Manual, this CRG website, and the Camaros.net to name a few.

Regarding my judge sheets:
 - The paint work has been finessed
 - The seal along the cowl panel was too stiff and caused the hood to not close flat and even with the front fenders...loose/worn hood hinges can also cause this
 - I used NOS emblems and the paint was not perfect on them...but they were NOS...LOL!
 - NOS weather strip and seals replaced the repros
 - I have no idea what was wrong with my glove box and window cranks which were GM NOS
 - The front seat covers have been redone
 - Air cleaner is a GM unit but not a flat bottom as released from the factory on early to mid-year build Camaros. Don't recall when the change was made to the air cleaner housing with the raised
   rib about the bottom surface
 - Under hood cleanliness...I drive the car so it's hard to clean every nook and cranny!
 - Trunk, Jack & Instructions...it had the wrong part number jack instruction decal...I corrected that ASAP!



Dave69x33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
    • View Profile
Re: 69 Headlight washer system T-Valves & Y-Connector - Follow-up
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2023, 08:44:53 PM »
They averaged the scores from the (3) judge sheets.

Dave69x33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
    • View Profile
Re: 69 Headlight washer system T-Valves & Y-Connector - Follow-up
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2023, 08:46:22 PM »
Hope this helps other folks who are planning to get their cars judged this year!

David K

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
  • Dr. Longblock
    • View Profile
Re: 69 Headlight washer system T-Valves & Y-Connector - Follow-up
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2023, 07:14:53 PM »
Thanks for the Upload sheets. I never got to the USCC or WW shows due to distance, but attended the ICC shows in the Poconos….I lived in Northern Virginia. Things were definitely different then in the judging. And I met a lot of nice people at these shows….every once in awhile there was the occasional dick, but it happens. My car was and won’t ever be a high end one like yours because I like mine the way it it….and you as well….and everyone else like theres. That high end judging isn’t for everyone, but it’s great to see them up close as they were “as built”.

That being said, judging has to be taken with a big grain of salt. As I have recently been told, there are definite inconsistencies and incorrect information in published reference material that’s concerning for those who want to go that route….we’ll just leave it at that.

I do plan on making an East coast visit and Morgantown (someone warn Karl Sheffy)😆😆😆😆

What did you do about the glove box and window cranks?🤦‍♂️🤔🤔.

z28z11

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1854
    • View Profile
Re: 69 Headlight washer system T-Valves & Y-Connector - Follow-up
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2023, 10:57:43 PM »
Your problem with NOS door handles (and other NOS parts) could (likely) stem from design/mold changes over the life of the service parts, which we have all seen from time to time. I bought as many NOS parts as I could for my X77 between 1978 or so until recent years, some of which are from older toolings that were continually rebuilt (like fan shroud molds - some of the later ones show as many as 4-5 mold repair events stamped in the part). I've got two NOS front spoilers that I bought from GM at the same time, could be from two different vendors but under the same part number, look slightly different down to a different part number stamping and font, and different edge finishing. Even Lloyd's very nice wiper motor restoration has at least one very visible reproduction flaw that stands out to an inspector that knows what to look for on the RS wiper motors (and might not be noticed by by a less familiar eye). Judging, to me, is still subjective no matter what the manual states - it still has to be interpreted.

Just my opinion -
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W 1967 Chevy ll Nova SS 
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06  1949 3100 5wd 235/6

Dave69x33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
    • View Profile
Re: 69 Headlight washer system T-Valves & Y-Connector - Follow-up
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2023, 11:07:21 PM »
David K,

I agree, there are some inconsistencies with the judging.  I think it is a natural part of the hobby as it continues to mature.  Books like the '69 Legends Judge Manual help but I have found some additional detail and pictures I think should be included in that manual.   Perhaps a future edition update will include this detail. 

Window Crank Handles - I learned a few thinks from Jerry MacNeish while he was in Indy this past November evaluating a friend's very nice X77 Z28.  One issue JM noted on his car; the front window cranks were incorrect. The front and rear window cranks are slightly different as shown below. I borrowed this picture from Heartbeat City Camaro (HBC) as they offer a clear picture showing the difference. Notice that the front crank handle GM #9715191 has a sharper radius in the handle than the rear handle GM #9717838. I confirmed the front and rear crank handles are different when I looked them up in my Master GM Camaro 1967 - 69 Parts Catalog (July 1969 issue date). I don't recall exactly why the crank handles are different, but I believe the front handle is offset a bit further away from the door panel so that it does not rub.  I have the same issue with my '69 and need to correct the front window crank handles eventually.  HBC Camaro offers nice quality reproduction crank handles.

Glove Box - I am not sure what was wrong with my glove box. A few years ago I replaced the glove box attachment hardware with the correct hardware I found at AMK Products. I need to study and get pictures of a glove box in a survivor car to compare it with my repro glove box.

Dave