1967 Power Top Hydraulic Line Routing

[67stripper]

Six years ago I had a shop replace the power top cylinders because they said they were leaking. Unfortunately they used the two piece cylinders that apparently leak, which my right one is now doing. The left one may also be leaking, but I have not taken that side apart to get at it yet.

The question I have now is the routing of the power top hydraulic lines. As you can see from the pictures I have attached the top line goes over the body frame to the top port on the cylinder. The line is wrapped in a hose that is wrapped in back electrical tape for protection of the hose where it goes over the body. This location does not seem factory production to me, although it has been this way since I bought the car in 1978 with 62,000 miles. Is this actually factory production like this, is it a recall repair to make sure there are no leaks, or did someone do this after the fact? The hoses do not seem modified.

Does anyone have a diagram or pictures of how these hoses are routed in factory production?

I'm going to replace the cylinders and service the pump and if I need new hoses I'll order those at the same time.

[169INDY]

HYDRO-LECTRIC System.
Both my lines go UNDER the body side brace*, It would appear a owner service modification at some point, they put tape around the line because the cylinders move and pivot a bit and this modified routing is resulting in chaffing at the brace edge.  New lines are in order in my opinion. Does the Fisher Body Manual show details for F body line install?

Brace = "Body Lock to main hinge support extension brace"

[David K]

From my 68…I’ll try to get some better pictures tomorrow.

[169INDY]

I think I posted this before for "LOS" overspray results, but you can just make out the routing - Maybe?

[David K]

Clearly goes under the brace…..zoom in on that thing.

[169INDY]

OK, YUP, Is that good for 67 thru 69 I would suppose so.

Funny Story: Put car top down in driveway around 1992 and heard the pump cavitating as it dropped, curious I got out and saw the Pacer bleeding red fluid from the rear rocker to the ground, Yes, Brittle hose gave up the ghost at the brass fitting, and after so many cycles crack goes the weasel,,,,,,,,,,,

[67stripper]

David,

Look forward to the pictures.

[67stripper]

169Indy,

Thanks for the photo and the information.

As you did, that is how I found out the cylinder was leaking. I was recently servicing the back brakes and noticed red fluid leaking out through the body seam below the cylinder. The undercoating in the wheel well at the seam between the inner and outer wheelhouse was also quite wet. Out came the back seat and the rear trim panel. Thankfully there was no flood, just wet undercoat below the cylinder which actually cleaned up fairly well. There is kind of a well there that stopped the flow of fluid out into the rear seat area. Now I need to drain the cylinder to stop leaks until I can replace parts. This does not look too difficult.

When the cylinders were replaced six years ago I had a friend who runs a restoration shop help me. He ordered the cylinders and unfortunately received the two piece kind. You can see this in the photo of the bottom of the cylinder. This joint is where the cylinder leaks. Factory cylinders are one piece in this area. At that time I had no idea there are two types produced and at that time the original one piece may not have been available. I believe the cylinders I have came from Classic Industries. They still have photos of the replacement part on their website that is the two piece kind. HBC sell the one piece as do other convertible parts shops. One convertible parts shop specifically says to stay away from the two piece cylinders as they leak. Definitely good advice.

No information in the 1967 Fisher Body Manual on line routing, but good information on servicing the parts other than advising to use brake fluid (ugh). There are some good YouTube videos on servicing the pump which I am going to do this time, although it seems to work okay.

From everything I have seen so far the lines go under the brace. However, all of the examples I have seen are 1968 or 1969 cars. My car is an early 11B (produced Nov 11th) so perhaps 1967 was different. The whole installation other than the extra hose taped on the line is very original looking and worked excellent. My friend changed the cylinders so I don't know what I'll find with the hoses at the top port. He never mentioned anything out of the ordinary to me. No issues other than cylinder leaks and a new switch from Chevrolet back in the day when you could buy these over the counter. My car actually has the original top including the back window in good condition. I've owned the car since 1978 with 62,000 miles and it is very original. Just very odd that the top cylinder lines would be replaced with shorter ones and a piece of hose taped over part of it to prevent damage from rubbing, but anything is possible. It would be nice to see pictures of early 1967 cars if possible.

To prevent further issues looks like new one piece cylinders, new longer lines and a service of the pump. Not looking forward to this project, but looks like it is time.

[KurtS]

Bet the line was damaged and they shortened it instead of getting a new one.

[67stripper]

Kurt,

That is what I thought initially, but both sides are identical. Possible that someone took a shorter set of top lines and installed them because one was broken, but I'm not so sure of that now. The lines fit perfectly and the ends look factory crimped. The pump pressure is 340 to 380 PSI spec, so not really high, but not insignificant pressure to modify a plastic hose to work.

I would sure like to see some photos or talk to members who have early 1967 cars. Unfortunately not many if any early 1967 cars that exist today with original factory installed power top parts.

I've been looking through early TSB and Service News but have not found anything yet.

I plan to replace the lines with new ones under the brace, but I'm curious about the early 1967 car factory installation.

[67stripper]

So far I have not found any reference to power top lines in the TSB or Chevrolet Service News literature. However, I did find information on the date of change from brake fluid to automatic transmission fluid. This happened in early January 1967 and was phased into production at that time. Attached is a copy of the page from the March 1967, Chevrolet Service News.

[David K]

I’m thinking the 67/89 lines would be routed the same.🤔🤔

[67stripper]

I agree David. It does make sense that they would be the same, but there were a lot of specific differences between the years. There were also a lot of running changes. Mostly improvements. All I can say about my car at this point is it sure looks factory production to me other than the hose taped over the line for protection. But, this could also be an undocumented running fix on the production line.

I dug out the original cylinders from storage and they are the one piece kind and it looks like they had brake fluid in them. Both are stamped "16" on the bottom. They actually look pretty good. I may try to fix them. There are a number of good posts on the Team Camaro site that show what people have done for successful repairs.

Something I'll continue to investigate over time when I get the opportunity to discuss it with other convertible owners or people who have restored convertibles.

On a separate note it looks like you have an interesting convertible. Can you tell me a little about it?

[67stripper]

Attached is a photo of the driver's side from about 2000 showing virtually the same hose and tape as the passenger side.

[David K]

Well since you asked…I’m the 2nd owner and bought it back in 1986, have all repair receipts, POP, Teal Blue,  obviously a power top..correct color blue top, 250, PG, Factory AC, PS, Wood wheel, console, AM/FM,  and more. Over the years I’ve been collecting “someday I’ll install them” factory correct parts, and someday is happening. I’ve added a fold down rear seat, tilt, dealer optioned dash mounted tach, and am hoping to install the fiber optics next weekend.
Interestingly enough, the lady ordered the car with a Parchment interior but it was built with a standard blue.

[David K]

Thanks for nothing Fisher Body…🫣🫣

[David K]

Pulled the side panel out as far as could with the time I had. My lines haven’t been disconnected so, I would feel safe in saying they’re routed this way from day 1. Both lines definitely go UNDER the the brace. Same as the pacer.
Hope this helps.

[67stripper]

Looks like you have a really nice car David. I owned a Grotto Blue 1968 big block coupe with bright blue deluxe interior for many years. It really was unique but hard to sell back in the late 1980s when I tried to sell it. Today not an issue.

Interesting that the photo you attached of the manual top mechanism does not have the brace. Do you think the brace is unique to power top cars or just missing from the photo in the manual?

My Camaro convertible is butternut yellow with a parchment and black interior and white top. L30 (327/275) with console automatic. Numbers matching drive line.  I bought it in May 1978 from a lady who I believe may have been the original owner. I don't have the documentation you do. I have the warranty book but the POP has been torn out. The previous owner is fairly high profile in the local area so I've been meaning to try and contact her to get some history, but just never have. I should do this soon as she is getting up there in age now, although she had a daughter who also drove the car at the time I purchased it so she might be able to help.

Like you I have purchased various parts and options and installed them over the years.

My car was sold new in Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada and spent time in southern California as there was a California college sticker on the windshield when I bought it. Unusual to be build in November and delivered to Lethbridge in the winter. But, does kind of fit with the college student theme.

[67stripper]

Thanks for the photos of the line routing. Much appreciated. Sure looks like the same as the Pacer.

[David K]

Your car-being a Canadian import makes your documentation easier. I don’t know the process, but all of the documents of origin are available for you. I’ll see if i can find the thread or make contact to someone who knows more.
Found it! Read this! Repost what you find out.

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=18359.msg176018#msg176018

[67stripper]

I purchased the GM of Canada documentation package back in 1999. Nice package. Well worth the time and fee. Part of the package is a list of all the factory options on the car.

The car was produced at Norwood on November 11, 1966 (Remembrance Dad) and shipped on November 15, 1966 to Beny Chev Olds Ltd, Lethbridge AB. This correlates with the Fisher Body tag date of 11B.

All of the dated parts I've checked on the car predate production by various periods and seem correct. The only part that I could find that was replaced was the starter. It is a rebuilt high torque from a Pontiac.

The most rare option on this car is A85, Frt Seat Shldr Harness Deluxe. I've only seen one other 1967 convertible with this option and it did not have the belts anymore, just the side trim clip holders.

One thing that is neat about the GM of Canada documentation is that it states how many of the model of car queried were imported to Canada. In 1967 there were 1,325 model 12467 convertibles produced for sale in Canada. Not very many. Six cylinders were probably much less.

[67stripper]

When I purchased my package I dealt with GM of Canada Vintage Services directly. I believe that now the process is contracted out to a private contractor but is still available. When I purchased mine I called them and the contact checked the VIN and confirmed it was a Canadian car and the records were available. At that point you could decide whether you wanted to pay for the package. If you wanted to get the package you paid by credit card and the package came in the mail a few weeks later. I'm not sure of the specific process now.

[67stripper]

Here is a link to the 1968 SS that I bought in the early 1980s from the original owner.

https://legendarymotorcar.com/inventory/1968-chevrolet-camaro-ss-396-1413.aspx

Great car. I drove this daily during the 1980s

[David K]

Nice car!