Silver '69 Z/28 on Bring a Trailer

[dannystarr]

Is there any info on this car in the DB?... Danny

 124379N678381

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1969-chevrolet-camaro-z-28-78/

[william]

Not in the db.

Seems like a decent car for the most part. But, I have to wonder about the early head rests and the 6/7 tach. Grill reinforcement is missing, park brake cable brackets also missing.

The pics show the car was sold in 1971 and the buyer applied for transfer of the warranty. I have never seen a replacement protect-o-plate that had the drivetrain stampings listed.

[KurtS]

The POP was surrendered at time of warranty transfer, IIRC.

[bcmiller]

Is there any info on this car in the DB?... Danny

 124379N678381

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1969-chevrolet-camaro-z-28-78/

Why would you need to know if this car is in the database? Do you realize how many cars you have inquired about?

There are people that have spent hundreds if not thousands of hours collecting data on cars. This forum is not setup for anyone to just randomly inquire about a VIN.  Has it happened in the past, well yes. But that was not the intent of CRG collecting data.  In some cases data has been given by the owner with expectation of privacy. The database was developed for research purposes, not for potential gain by any individual.

The above opinions are my own.

There are about 200 pictures in that listing. Evaluate it and buy it if it fits what you want.

[bcmiller]

And yes, the original POP would not exist on this car if it was sold in 1971.

Replacements do not have the drivetrain data.

[Kelley W King]

just FYI. My 08E Z has a vin number 1400 lower than this car and a body number 700 higher. Just showing how CRG information says when and how these 2 numbers were created at different times. This comment it not meant to question the legitacy of the silver car.

[dannystarr]

I have seen MANY people ask for the SAME info since joining years ago. What am I missing? I don't have the knowledge to make a purchase with just the pictures. THAT'S WHY I COME HERE!! Also, by bringing the info to the forefront, others interested will have access. If it's JUST for research purposes ONLY, then close down the comments sections and just add info as you obtain it. There is 100's of comments online of people saying to check with CRG, JM, Steve S., Yenko before you buy that car. I KNOW the time that it takes to document this info on THOUSANDS of cars, and it is greatly appreciated! I guess I was misinformed on the purpose of the site. It seems as though you and others on the sites have turned on me because I am not a butt kisser, and I stick up for myself when someone sells me a part that was not described to me correctly. Most parts I have purchased from members are a 1/2 a step down OR MORE from the condition that was described. I am not going be a little Bitch, JUST to stay in the click. Lucky for you my Cancer has returned for the 4th time in 8 years, and I won't be bugging you anymore. It has now metastasized into my lungs. I have denied Chemo and all other treatment as of last week. They keep trying to get me to do it so they can charge the insurance THOUSANDS of dollars! That's how the hospitals stay open. Don't EVER for a second think that ANY Dr. or Hospital gives a SHIT about you. You are JUST a number! Cars and personal items will be sold. JM, William, Jason, and a couple other members have known for a while. I am of course devastated to say the least. I am walking in circles nightly. My awesome girlfriend of over 8 years informed me yesterday, she wants to keep the '68 BY Z/28 and continue going to cars shows. Which I think is a great idea. I will try not to ask TOO many questions before the funeral. Take Care... Danny

[black69]

I don't understand why the original protecto plate could not just stay with the car, a new protecto plate transfer would cover the warranty so why destroy the original (or turn it in to the new dealer). The original dealer that would run the original pp is not going to run it on a car they do not have, so don't see the risk there, the person's name on the plate does not even own the car anymore. The new dealer would run the one they got now.  Just confused, but it would not be the first time.

[LeonardS]

dannystarr, wishing you a miracle and if not, no pain as you progress.

[cook_dw]

Most parts I have purchased from members are a 1/2 a step down OR MORE from the condition that was described.

Have you connected with those members?  I know for one you have bought at least one thing from me and I'd like to know what if any have I misrepresented if I am included in that broad statement..  You can pm me if you'd like as I don't wanna take away from the thread as I've already had my hand slapped on another forum for speaking out of line and not going with the "flow".

[bcmiller]

Danny your situation is indeed tragic and I will pray for you.

My message was still honest. Maybe harsh, but honest.

I will explain in more detail later.

Let those near and dear to you know that you love them. Remember the most important things in life aren’t “things”.

[Dave69x33]

All,

I also track auction prices on '69 Z28 on BaT, along with a few other "wish list" muscle cars and '67 Vettes.  I see a lot of interesting cars on BaT, and when '69 Z28 are listed, I comb thru the pics and details to look for issues. I found it interesting tp see a "DJ" part no. 3970118 emissions decal.  Was that a late change on a '69 Z28 302 from the "CF" #3956682 decal?

Danny,

If I were interested in this Z28, I would have tried to research it on CRG just as you did, for the chance it was in the database.   CRG is always my 1st go to resource!

[black69]

The drivers door jam picture really shows they did not try hard to match the original shade of silver.  It would be hard for me to buy it with it being that far off from original.

[GMAD_Van Nuys]

In 2004, someone was looking at purchasing a 1969 Z28 and said that the replacement POP only had limited information and he could not verify that it was originally a Z28:

https://www.camaros.net/threads/replacement-protect-o-plate.22637/

CRG members William and JohnZ replied that the replacement POP only contained limited information.

[68 Ragtop]

Not in the db.

Seems like a decent car for the most part. But, I have to wonder about the early head rests and the 6/7 tach. Grill reinforcement is missing, park brake cable brackets also missing.

The pics show the car was sold in 1971 and the buyer applied for transfer of the warranty. I have never seen a replacement protect-o-plate that had the drivetrain stampings listed.

The POP shown looks like the original sale POP, not a second owner POP. It has the original sale date and owner name on it. Kind of silly to block out the name as it's on the paperwork shown in another image.

[68 Ragtop]

In 2004, someone was looking at purchasing a 1969 Z28 and said that the replacement POP only had limited information and he could not verify that it was originally a Z28:

https://www.camaros.net/threads/replacement-protect-o-plate.22637/

CRG members William and JohnZ replied that the replacement POP only contained limited information.

Second owner POP's had no drivetrain info on them. They had the current mileage when sold and also had a #2 for second owner

[bcmiller]

I will look later today. I think I have one or two second owner PoPs.

[bcmiller]

I think the POP shown previously looks awfully NEW. 

Here is a second owner POP from a 1970 Camaro.

[cook_dw]

Agreed the one 68 ragtop posted is a repo

[Jonesy]

Heres my 2nd owner POP on my Z28.

so what does the 162 at the bottom represent?

[169INDY]

the vehicle mileage
^ from POP info under Numbers decdoe^

Similarly My 2nd Owner POP has the Number "131"

I wondering out loud, you just add two zeros?  Yours 16,200mi, mine 13,100mi as a point of reference towards the 50,000mi limit

not sure?

[bcmiller]

I think that is right. Hundreds of miles on the car. 

[KurtS]

A warranty POP and the decode are shown here: http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#POPCodes

[BULLITT65]

I am also confused by the statement that the CRG was not meant to look up cars? I refer people to the site often to learn from the research reports and prior threads. If there is information about a specific car that is great information to bring forward. If it was presented by a past owner or a past sale and is up for sale again then I am sure there is still a way to present the info with some discretion. I was disappointed to see the rear end stamp was scratched out.

Additionally, Danny you have provided many pics of your BY car and I don't even own a 68 and I followed it for a long time for all the detail you went into, which would seem to add to the info the CRG has on hand, not sure why there wouldn't be a lot of reciprocity.

(CRG-Not the best "welcome" mat, as a way to encourage others to share info though.)

Danny I wish you well, continue to fight the good fight, and God bless you buddy.

[rich69rs]

I am also confused by the statement that the CRG was not meant to look up cars? ………..(CRG-Not the best "welcome" mat, as a way to encourage others to share info though.)

Danny I wish you well, continue to fight the good fight, and God bless you buddy.

I totally agree.  I always, prior to recent comments, understood that one of the main functions of CRG was as a repository of information and a database of cars that could/would be shared openly.  (I’m talking about basic car info - not particulars that can be used to fake a car’s legitimacy.)  Back when I was a regular poster (up through about mid-2014), willingly answering questions regarding whether or not a car was in the database was done willingly…..and quite frankly I’m surprised to learn that is no longer reality.

Much more importantly - good luck and Godspeed Danny.

Richard

[bcmiller]

Nope.

If you didn’t understand my reasoning, well that’s fine.

Having an open database was never the intent. And THAT would not be good for those who have contributed and wanted their data to remain confidential.

I think some have found this as a “service” to personally benefit financially. Nope - it is not - at least in my opinion.

[bcmiller]

I am also confused by the statement that the CRG was not meant to look up cars? I refer people to the site often to learn from the research reports and prior threads. If there is information about a specific car that is great information to bring forward. If it was presented by a past owner or a past sale and is up for sale again then I am sure there is still a way to present the info with some discretion. I was disappointed to see the rear end stamp was scratched out.

Additionally, Danny you have provided many pics of your BY car and I don't even own a 68 and I followed it for a long time for all the detail you went into, which would seem to add to the info the CRG has on hand, not sure why there wouldn't be a lot of reciprocity.

(CRG-Not the best "welcome" mat, as a way to encourage others to share info though.)

Danny I wish you well, continue to fight the good fight, and God bless you buddy.

You are entitled to your opinion.

The rear end stamp MIGHT have been damaged by exhaust rubbing in that area. Or it may have been done intentionally.

As for information, thousands of hours were spent on the data posted on the site, general information and specific reports. Those are a huge service to CRG members and the general public.

Data in the forum is very valuable too.

[BULLITT65]

Nope.

If you didn’t understand my reasoning, well that’s fine.

Having an open database was never the intent. And THAT would not be good for those who have contributed and wanted their data to remain confidential.

I think some have found this as a “service” to personally benefit financially. Nope - it is not - at least in my opinion.

The great service is when data is found on a car that has resurfaced and/or come up for sale. The CRG obviously can hold back data or outright refuse to disclose such info, but how are they policing who benefits financially? If someone learns a car is more original or legitimate, and decides to purchase it, aren't they just making a more informed decision with their money? Does the CRG then look down on the situation?
If the info isn't provided by the CRG and someone over pays for a car,  does the CRG approve since there was no financial gain? (a loss)

I personally don't think the CRG should pick a side in financial gain or loss, when providing info. I think the CRG is best just presenting the facts and history about these cars, and then let the buyers or sellers make their own decisions. (like the buyer beware posts) Thanks William

This new decision to release info based on overseeing if there is financial gain, seems worrisome.

[bcmiller]

You don’t get it and that is sad.

The database is not an “open book” - for many reasons. Confidentiality being number one.

[bcmiller]

Austin.

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=19822.msg179841#msg179841

[cook_dw]

I feel this still holds true today.

http://www.camaros.org/aboutcrg.shtml



  I have no dog in the fight but understanding what and why CRG did and still does is important.  As Bryon stated this is not meant to be public knowledge of personal information on vehicles.  It’s not always cut and dry as you are making it out Austin.  The processes and the anomalies from these cars being built is the core purpose for the website and group.  I have zero issues with the folks that are the key holders to the database not wanting just anyone to have full reign on all the cars in said db as like many vehicles I have shared privately I respect the fact I can trust several of the CRG core members when I share said data.  I also do not expect nor demand info on cars when I have questions or interest in something I’m working on.  CRG does not get any financial gain from this website which was also never its intent.  In my eyes this was a passion for the hobby and the willingness to help others with the same interests.  My apologies for maybe speaking out of turn but sometimes looking at it from the other viewpoint is important. 

[Z282NV]

I think it's important that this CRG database exists and those have created it by either their own investigations or submissions from others that it be kept confidential. If people wanted their vehicle information known to others they would go and submit their details to one of the on line registries and get a certificate for it. For some high pedigree vehicles its all the rage to say that "my car is in the registry". To each his own.

With that being said, I also think it is important that if someone asks if a particular vehicle is already within the CRG database that a response be provided yes or no. However that does not imply that the information will be released. There is always the PM route of communication if any information can be divulged and needs to remain out of the public eye, but yet again that is to discretion of those that created and maintain this database.  I am also sure that CRG members here as well as others on this site would like to help any potential buyer of a vehicle as much as they can but you need to be able to ask the right questions. In the end it your own choice armed with what information you have obtained yourself along with any answers to the questions that you may have received from this site. I think like my drivers licence it's a privilege to be here, not a right.

Danny, I wish you well and God Bless you, don't let these posts whatever direction they may have taken distract you from what is important in life, your family!



 

[Jonesy]

From what I recall, the main reason the database was started was to collect information for research of all Camaros.
With this info and research, a lot has been discovered and shared with the public and its all written on this webpage.
So I think what they set out to do has come to fruition and we all benefit from that. So there is reciprocity. They have shared a lot of information and helped a lot of Camaro enthusiasts!
Nothing is being held back as far as I see it. I think at times with driveline stampings and cowl tags, too much info has come out and the bad guys know even more.

I totally appreciate all that the CRG has done!

[BULLITT65]

" I totally appreciate all that the CRG has done!" X2

[KurtS]

The data collected was never meant to be a registry. That was decided before we even started collecting.
With the commitment to confidentiality, we were provided data that we otherwise would not obtain.
The issue comes down to a time issue. It takes time to look up every request.

[Dave69x33]

Danny,

I am sorry to hear about your cancer.  I am a cancer survivor and fully understands the hardship and stress cancer has on the family of a loved one. 

I have learned a few thinks from you and your post on CRG.  Thank you for that!

My prayers go out to you and your family.

Dave