Author Topic: 1967 396 Part 2  (Read 2231 times)

cook_dw

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1967 396 Part 2
« on: December 23, 2021, 01:14:11 PM »
While doing some research  yesterday I was sent this link and then I remembered finding a video several years ago of what I think might be the first race the Jenkins 67 Camaro attended..  According to the video its at Cecil Dragway at the Run What You Brung race.  Not trying to stir the pot but I think it was and still is an interesting topic.  Notice the red wheels from Jenkins red Chevy II on the back.  By the looks of the clothing and the lack of leaves on the trees its pretty early in the year but idk about that part of the country and its season changes.  Maybe someone will remember when this event was held so we can possibly put a rough date on when it happened. 

I would have replied in the original thread but it is apparently locked.

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=1667.msg10330#msg10330


https://youtu.be/daWpqICnR_k
1968 - Rallye Green L78 unrestored
1968 - Matador Red Z28 - Currently under preservation

If you have solid lifter 1967 - 1969 Camaro please contact me as I would like to add your car's info to my database

bcmiller

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2021, 01:21:45 PM »
That video has been known for many years.

There was more than one L78 car built “very early”. Grumpy’s car does not have the lowest L78 VIN.

The debate will go on forever. Everyone wants to be first.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2021, 01:47:43 PM by bcmiller »
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

cook_dw

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2021, 03:25:35 PM »
Then delete the thread if its not wanted for discussion.
1968 - Rallye Green L78 unrestored
1968 - Matador Red Z28 - Currently under preservation

If you have solid lifter 1967 - 1969 Camaro please contact me as I would like to add your car's info to my database

bcmiller

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2021, 09:14:50 PM »
The original thread got quite heated if memory serves me correct. Not nearly as much controversy as the EO 69, but heated enough.

I tried contacting the track years ago to find an exact date. Never got one. Contacted them through FB a few weeks back. Crickets.

It’s a very interesting car.  What  would you like to discuss?

Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

JoeC

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2022, 01:13:52 PM »
Jenkins brought his 1966 Chevy II to the Winternationals  Fed 5 ,1967 so he didn't have his Camaro ready for this race.

He red lighted against the Hot Rod Magazine 67 Camaro . it was a big story because the Hot Rod Camaro had a illegal BB engine from Bill Thomas

bcmiller

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2022, 01:56:30 PM »
And those rear wheels look white on the Nova! I wonder why he wasn’t running the red ones.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

JoeC

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2022, 04:39:03 PM »
Bill Jenkins 67 didn't have the Camaro fender emblem which may indicate an early car unless they were removed

there are pictures of the 67 with SS and 396 flag emblems which are steel fenders

and there are pictures of the 67 with no SS and no 396 flag emblems which are fiberglass fenders

maroman

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2022, 09:58:55 PM »
Where and when would the fiberglass fenders have been used?
Doug  '67 RS/SS 396 auto I know the car since new

crossboss

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2022, 10:03:26 PM »
Where and when would the fiberglass fenders have been used?



+2. Stock and Super Stock that is not allowed.
Just another T/A fanatic. A new project in the works.

bcmiller

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2022, 10:44:51 PM »
I believe allowed in Gas and Modified Production.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

maroman

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2022, 12:22:58 AM »
Could they have been used in match races? A lot of things happened there.
Doug  '67 RS/SS 396 auto I know the car since new

Jerry@CHP

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2022, 03:15:20 AM »
I interviewed Bill Jenkins in 1993.  He told me that both he and Paul Prior were responsible for getting the L78 engine into the Camaro.  This was done for NHRA Super Stock eliminator.  And as we know, Jenkins made history and won the NHRA US Nationals (the super bowl of drag racing) in 1967 with this car.  There may be a couple of earlier vins but that does not mean they were the first one.  The pace cars were modified for the Indy 500.  Jenkins sent his engine man, Joe Tryson to the Tech Center in Detroit to pick up this car.  Joe drove it back to Malvern, PA with no heater and 4.56 rear axle.  This is all straight from the horse's mouth.

Also, the fact that it was picked up at the Tech Center and not Norwood assembly tells the story that this was a very special 1st car production.  Jenkins sold it to the Kimble Brothers in 1970 and it was restored many years later.  I think d. Mecum owns the car now. 

Jerry
« Last Edit: January 03, 2022, 04:47:55 AM by william »

Jerry@CHP

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2022, 03:23:38 AM »
Here's the Jenkins original '66 Chevy II.  It was totaled in a trailering accident coming home from the track in 1966.

Jerry@CHP

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2022, 03:27:03 AM »
Here's a photo of Bill Jenkins in the winner's circle after winning both class eliminations and the eliminator.  September 1967.

Charley

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2022, 02:32:56 PM »
The actual Pace cars had earlier vins and were built before the Jenkin's car. They came off the assembly line as L78 4 speed cars and then went to engineering to be modified for the race as evidenced by the engineering paperwork. The Jenkin's car is probably the 3rd or 4th L78 Camaro built.

bcmiller

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2022, 04:35:00 PM »
Jenkins brought his 1966 Chevy II to the Winternationals  Fed 5 ,1967 so he didn't have his Camaro ready for this race.

He red lighted against the Hot Rod Magazine 67 Camaro . it was a big story because the Hot Rod Camaro had a illegal BB engine from Bill Thomas

Joe,

How do you think the Hot Rod magazine modified Camaro even made it through Tech inspection?
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

maroman

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2022, 07:55:37 PM »
I don't think it did. I read around the 75th ann. of Hot Rod that all the data from that car was faked. If you remember it started  as a 350, went to headers, then slicks, etc. with each issue. Then they put in the " 396" that they finally admitted was a built 427. All the strip times were faked. So that tells me Chevy was involved, the fix was in. I wonder how many Camaros were sold by those articles.
Doug  '67 RS/SS 396 auto I know the car since new

JoeC

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JoeC

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2022, 08:36:26 PM »
Jenkins ran his 67 in A/MP , B/G, and match racing (maybe others) with the fiberglass fenders with no SS emblems , no 396 flags.

I looked through a bunch of photos of the car and didn't see any with a Camaro fender emblem but he did have the SS emblems and 396 flag emblems on the steel fenders

KurtS

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2022, 09:22:18 PM »
Then they put in the " 396" that they finally admitted was a built 427. All the strip times were faked. So that tells me Chevy was involved, the fix was in.
I'm not seeing the connection back to Chevrolet here. They didn't provide the "396".
Kurt S
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maroman

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2022, 10:42:10 PM »
The car, if I remember right was the first Calif. SS, was provided by Chevrolet. The articles ran for about 4 or 5 months and they allowed the misinformation to continue. I DO  blame Chevrolet. Especially when Hot Rod admitted most of the information was fake. To me it's just like when Car and driver claimed the Pontiac GTO beat the Ferrari GTO. Wasn't that a 421 Pontiac? A lot of cars were sold from these articles.
Doug  '67 RS/SS 396 auto I know the car since new

crossboss

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2022, 01:10:50 AM »
I don't think it did. I read around the 75th ann. of Hot Rod that all the data from that car was faked. If you remember it started  as a 350, went to headers, then slicks, etc. with each issue. Then they put in the " 396" that they finally admitted was a built 427. All the strip times were faked. So that tells me Chevy was involved, the fix was in. I wonder how many Camaros were sold by those articles.



As one famous Hot Rod/Car Craft editor told me its all 'Editorial Hype" to sell magazines and please the sponsors/advertising. In todays language its called 'Fake News' Btw, 'most' magazine test cars were ringers. Believe me I know.
Just another T/A fanatic. A new project in the works.

maroman

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2022, 01:32:22 AM »
I was 15-16 when I read the articles from Hot Rod. I  believed every word just like we were supposed to. I got hooked on Camaros just like we were supposed to. I have never believed any road test since reading these were faked.
Doug  '67 RS/SS 396 auto I know the car since new

crossboss

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2022, 01:59:03 AM »
I was 15-16 when I read the articles from Hot Rod. I  believed every word just like we were supposed to. I got hooked on Camaros just like we were supposed to. I have never believed any road test since reading these were faked.



Remember, it's not only Hot-Rod, Car Craft, Motor Trend, etc. They all tested the same motor pool of cars. 'Ringers' were not uncommon then (and now). Some mags flat out 'faked' the performance results outright. Someone mentioned the GTO with the 421 Super Duty engine (claimed to be a 389! lol), it was a ringer no doubt. Years ago, I asked Jim Wangers about it, he laughed. So many cars were specially 'tuned' and some were driven by the pros to get even more performance out of them. One memorable one is the 440-6 Road Runners driven by Ronny Sox. 12 second ETs. NO production Muscle Car ran 12s in pure showroom condition. Same as the Boss 351 cars running bottom 13s. They were also 'ringers' specially tuned by Hollman Moody/Stroppe.
Just another T/A fanatic. A new project in the works.

bcmiller

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Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

crossboss

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Re: 1967 396 Part 2
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2022, 05:08:39 PM »
here is the story on  the 1967 Pomona and the Hot Rod Camaro.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/1906-the-first-1967-chevrolet-camaro-fitted-with-big-block-was-too-fast/?fbclid=IwAR3avP-t4AWnqgmU8IfohgArxvUR-TNPemFl13GlNKits7LcgYBjXGJZjvE

427 bored and stroked to 490. Geez.



Thats an amazing feat to achieve back then. I'm sure it was very costly to do. It pre-dates the 496 Chevy BB Can-Am engine by about 2-3 years. Granted those were special engines.
Just another T/A fanatic. A new project in the works.

 

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