Author Topic: What's it worth?  (Read 5345 times)

dannystarr

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What's it worth?
« on: August 10, 2021, 12:48:03 AM »
Looking at some cars. With the recent jump in pricing, I am wondering what this car is worth. Went online and saw a few, but would like the gang here to chime in.
 1969 Pontiac Firebird Trans-Am Ram Air III 335HP 400 4-Speed 3:55 Posi
Car has been completely restored frame off on a rotisserie. Looks beautiful!! PHS Doc's match up. Now the bad news... Dated Correct '69 400 engine. Also what's the price hit for the non original engine?... Danny

Kelley W King

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Re: What's it worth?
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2021, 11:24:25 AM »
They made so few 69 Trans Ams that is a tuff question. The 70 ram air GTO,s have been all over the place price wise for a few years.
69 Z28 RS Scuncio Hi Performance
69 SS L78
67 SS Chevelle
64 Corvette
66 GTO Tiger Gold
77 Trans Am Special Edition

GMAD_Van Nuys

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Re: What's it worth?
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2021, 03:47:20 PM »
The engine identification code for a 1969 Pontiac 400 manual transmission Ram Air III is "WQ," with a cylinder head casting code of "48."

169INDY

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Re: What's it worth?
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2021, 05:02:54 PM »
I would Venture to Guess that the "HIT" of the non original engine is less sever than a Camaro Z28, since the Pontiac are fully support by paper authentication.
69 T/A are strong in the market with the RA I/V outa sight.
Jim
68 SS/RS L35 Th-400 LOS
69 Pace Car L48 Th-350 LOS
68 Z28 M21 LOS

camaronut

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Re: What's it worth?
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2021, 05:21:12 PM »
Danny - did he give you a price? 
Probably a good question for the folks at PHS - I forget his name....

MO

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Re: What's it worth?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2021, 05:33:33 PM »
15% has long been the standard deduct for NOM. Same add for a car with it's OM. There are probably exceptions to that rule for certain makes and models.

crossboss

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Re: What's it worth?
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2021, 06:19:56 PM »
Your dealing with a rare and very desirable car, a 1969 Trans-Am. As mentioned, the hit would be low. Yes, ANY car with its original engine IS more desirable, than one with out it. My 'guess' would be around 10%. Lets look at this in a different way: a 1969 ZL-1 Camaro, and a '71 Hemi 'Cuda convert missing their engines and transmissions (a rolling chassis), would sell for more than most Muscle Cars would complete and running. Rarity and desirability drive up prices.
Just another T/A fanatic. Current lifelong projects:
1968 Olds 442 W-30
1969 Mustang Fastback w a Can-Am 494 (Boss 429)

dannystarr

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Re: What's it worth?
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2021, 09:24:00 AM »
Owner has been restoring cars for about 40 years and does great work. Owner was offered a good chunk a while back and declined. The car isn't really even for sale at this point. I am just trying to push my way in... I am shocked that the price hit for a NOM is only 10 or 15%. I have always felt 20 to 25% for NOM, another 5 to 8K for incorrect transmission, and 3 to 5K for rear axle. That's how I have always based my first gen Z/28 pricing. If you have a 100K car with the wrong motor, or even an era correct 302 motor but NOM, I say 70 to 80K TOPS! I guess they only made 520 4-speeds. The car needs NOTHING. I have seen a detailed thick folder full of Pic's. Going to try to see it in person on my next trip to that state. Thanx for all help so far, keep it coming, I am learning. I see some for 80K and others for 120K and even others for 130K or more. Car has era correct Pontiac 400 so I guess that helps a little. Also just 3 options. I think PS, Radio and ? Can't remember. I am starting to think this may be out of my price range. ... Danny 

69Z28-RS

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Re: What's it worth?
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2021, 01:01:10 PM »
For a Chevrolet, the 'hit' for an incorrect engine is variable depending up on several factors, and probably the same/similar is true for other makes:

1)  Is the engine a 'std' engine?  or HP engine?  Or SHP engine?  Special High Performance engines when missing would carry a larger hit obviously.   (The z28's 302 was a SHP engine)

2)  How 'special' is the body/chassis itself (to distinguish it from 'base'  models).  I'm NOT talking emblems, paint, etc.

3)  Are there other factors concerning the particular car (special options, etc?) that help motivate buyers?

That's my opinion.

PS.  If I found an original '69 Firebird TA car, I wouldn't worry nearly as much about whether the engine was the 'born with' as much as I would with a 1st gen Z28.  Perhaps I feel this way because of the rarity of the car itself and 'lack of knowledge' about any special engines Pontiac may have put into them?
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

crossboss

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Re: What's it worth?
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2021, 04:35:28 PM »
This is 'my' opinion on this: GM based Muscle Cars and their engines pretty much look the same as the standard engines. Hear me out before the hate mail comes rolling in. A small block Chevy, and a Pontiac engine look the same to 'most' people as their high performance counter parts. So, 'I' believe the hit wont be such a loss as compared to lets say a 426 Hemi or a Boss 429 engine/car. Those engines ARE vastly different to their big block cousins. What Im saying here is, a small block Chevy 283 all the way up to a 400 can be disguised as a potential DZ 302...in the 'looks' dept. People do this all the time with swapped out crate engines. Of course, anyone can see that the 'correct' parts, and casting numbers are not there. Get what Im driving at?
Just another T/A fanatic. Current lifelong projects:
1968 Olds 442 W-30
1969 Mustang Fastback w a Can-Am 494 (Boss 429)

169INDY

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Re: What's it worth?
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2021, 05:06:39 PM »
Boss,  Yes I see your "Driving at point".  Put a 454 in a 67 camaro and slap a 396 foil sticker on it.

But even at 10,000 feet a Proper ZL1 loooks NOTHING like a L35,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Grins.
Jim
68 SS/RS L35 Th-400 LOS
69 Pace Car L48 Th-350 LOS
68 Z28 M21 LOS

crossboss

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Re: What's it worth?
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2021, 05:52:04 PM »
Boss,  Yes I see your "Driving at point".  Put a 454 in a 67 camaro and slap a 396 foil sticker on it.

But even at 10,000 feet a Proper ZL1 loooks NOTHING like a L35,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Grins.



Exactly! I'm sure the Z/28 IS the most cloned car on the planet. Only exception to that would be an early GT-350 Shelby.
Just another T/A fanatic. Current lifelong projects:
1968 Olds 442 W-30
1969 Mustang Fastback w a Can-Am 494 (Boss 429)

jdv69z

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Re: What's it worth?
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2021, 06:55:42 PM »
Just my opinion. If I was serious about buying a 69 Trans Am, and was spending $ in the 6 figure range, I would not consider a NOM. If I am going to do it, I'm going to go all the way for originality even though it might cost more.
Jimmy V.

MO

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Re: What's it worth?
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2021, 08:42:48 PM »
Sure you can make an engine look like something it isn't (sort of like putting lipstick on a pig), but that's not going to change the value. A clone is a clone and should not add significant value to the overall price of the sale. That engine is worth the some of it's parts at best.

crossboss

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Re: What's it worth?
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2021, 09:30:29 PM »
Sure you can make an engine look like something it isn't (sort of like putting lipstick on a pig), but that's not going to change the value. A clone is a clone and should not add significant value to the overall price of the sale. That engine is worth the some of it's parts at best.



Absolutely correct. Just for poops and grins, what would a ZL-1 Camaro be worth missing its all alum 427, and a 350 small block is now in place? Still a ton of money. Why? Because that VIN/chassis IS rare and desirable to collectors.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2021, 10:30:16 PM by crossboss »
Just another T/A fanatic. Current lifelong projects:
1968 Olds 442 W-30
1969 Mustang Fastback w a Can-Am 494 (Boss 429)

 

anything