Author Topic: GRILL RIVETS 1967 (or '68?)-  (Read 4814 times)

Charley PHX

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GRILL RIVETS 1967 (or '68?)-
« on: May 28, 2021, 06:34:57 AM »
Hello folks;

Is there anyone who has experience re-riveting a '67-'68 RS grill, that would be willing to share photos of their results and what tool they used.  I'm interested in 1967 in particular, though I believe '68 is the same?

There are numerous discussions on file regarding 1st-gen Grill Rivets.  Generally these are 5 or more years old.  Some have photos of the original rivets, and some recommend various tools and/or provide links to such.

What I was unable to find, was photos of actual results (using whatever tool of choice)?  Also the "tool" links in many cases are broken.

There are some very good photos of original rivets at:  http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=12154.0  (Thanks Mike)...  This 'look' is what I'd like to replicate.  But I'm reluctant to go out and buy tool(s) ranging $90-$250 and upward without a pretty high confidence level they will work as expected.

One of the vendors (NPD) describes a low-tech installation technique using a vise-grip and a ball bearing... Tried & failed! (the rivets split and don't roll down properly).  The rivet goes into place... but looks terrible.

We're using the AMK rivets (both center to upper/lower moldings, and grille assembly to lower valence). 

Is anyone able to help out with feedback/photos of their results?  THANKS!
'67 04D (LOS) L-35/M20 Convertible (owned since 1975) - Restored 2013-2022 (perpetually still 'in progress")
'67 06D (LOS) L-78 Coupe (body) (1979 barn find) - Traded 2018 to my car builder!

169INDY

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Re: GRILL RIVETS 1967 (or '68?)-
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2021, 10:05:01 PM »
Purchase a Hansen Rivet driver (HANSON HAND CLINCHERS) from Grainger etc appropriately size to the Diameter of the "SEMI-TUBULAR" rivet you choose, Note Alum Rivet tend to "SPLIT" a LOT!
Practice first on scrap, you can make or use some simple material to "Back-up" the rivet head as support.

Will post more later

JIM
Jim
68 SS/RS L35 Th-400 LOS
69 Pace Car L48 Th-350 LOS
68 Z28 M21 LOS

Mike S

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Re: GRILL RIVETS 1967 (or '68?)-
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2021, 12:19:33 AM »
 I'll take some pictures tomorrow of the 67 grill I riveted using AMK rivets and this tool I bought: https://www.zip-corvette.com/53-82-aero-rivet-ii-tool.html
I used this to mount the grill and also the R/S door molding rivets. It works excellent.

Mike
67 04B LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 05B NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored

Charley PHX

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Re: GRILL RIVETS 1967 (or '68?)-
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2021, 04:26:29 AM »
Jim & Mike, thank you... standing by!

I did find the Zip/Aero tool, but was taken aback by the one review saying you have to put the tool in a vise; 'cause it flexes open when you use it!  Very interested to get more insight as to how you (Mike) made out with it...

Meanwhile: for what it's worth... this was the result we got following the instructions at: https://www.npdlink.com/product/fastener-kit-grille-lower-molding-10-incl-rivets/110122 ...not exactly what was hoped for
« Last Edit: May 29, 2021, 04:47:50 AM by Charley PHX »
'67 04D (LOS) L-35/M20 Convertible (owned since 1975) - Restored 2013-2022 (perpetually still 'in progress")
'67 06D (LOS) L-78 Coupe (body) (1979 barn find) - Traded 2018 to my car builder!

169INDY

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Re: GRILL RIVETS 1967 (or '68?)-
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2021, 05:17:25 AM »
You Need to Double check your assembly Manual, That is not the correct locations for rivets.
AIM Z22/A4

Mike Double check me on that?

Jim

Not being critical, in a helpful manner here
Jim
68 SS/RS L35 Th-400 LOS
69 Pace Car L48 Th-350 LOS
68 Z28 M21 LOS

Charley PHX

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Re: GRILL RIVETS 1967 (or '68?)-
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2021, 06:49:42 PM »
Jim, thank you... While hoping for additional input from Mike, please let me add some explanation and more comment...

My installer was trying to go 'by the book' (referencing 1967 #11-13/B6, rivet #5), where the sketch indicates downward orientation from the inside... There is also a RS grill page at Z22/B2, but the only variations from production I noticed there, were the nuts attaching top trim to the header panel, and the grille emblem.  It is entirely possible I missed something, but those are the AIM refs of which I took note?  

That said... (1) Personally I think the riveted design is REALLY DUMB.  The General must have thought so too, 'cause they changed to nuts & bolts for '68 (1968 AIM Z22/A4, screw #6 & nut #8).  But we're going for originality (so common sense has nothing to do with it)...  (CAR is LOS 04D)

(2) In Mike's 2014 thread above, he noted examples where the rivet was installed contrary to the AIM (but more logically in my opinion).  After re-reading the 2014 discussion, I located some photos of original attachment on a small number of other cars.  Every one was installed going upward from the air passage (with 'pretty' side visible... 'nasty' side of the rivet facing up towards the radiator).  Not sure if this is a "normative practice" or what?  But when we re-do, that's what I will specify!

Hope that explains the 'method behind the madness'!  Doing this again, want to make sure we get it right (or as close as possible)?

Which segues back to question on the tooling... 
'67 04D (LOS) L-35/M20 Convertible (owned since 1975) - Restored 2013-2022 (perpetually still 'in progress")
'67 06D (LOS) L-78 Coupe (body) (1979 barn find) - Traded 2018 to my car builder!

169INDY

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Re: GRILL RIVETS 1967 (or '68?)-
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2021, 08:39:13 PM »
Doh the 68 Guy in me again. Sorry about that.  I missed all the 2014 research.
Jim
68 SS/RS L35 Th-400 LOS
69 Pace Car L48 Th-350 LOS
68 Z28 M21 LOS

Tinkerr

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Re: GRILL RIVETS 1967 (or '68?)-
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2021, 10:53:32 PM »
I just installed my RS grill. I used the Hand Clincher, but it was a 2 man job smashing the rivets. The hand clincher worked on all the rivets with exception of 4. They were not accessible with clincher. The riveter Mike referenced looks like it would work to install them all. I spent $40 all told, but had to modify the clincher to install the last 4 rivets. After installed they look just like the originals. I have a original grill to reference installed appearance. I probably would spend the extra money for the Aero riveter.

Mike S

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Re: GRILL RIVETS 1967 (or '68?)-
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2021, 12:27:17 AM »
Charley PHK,

   This is an interesting topic indeed and something I uncovered with my latest restoration after examining my car today.
Question:  Are the rivets shown in the picture removed?  If so, and this is the important part of the question.... are the holes in the lower grill trim the same size as the holes in the lower valance it would attach to, or, are the holes in the trim slightly larger.  Is this trim a reproduction by chance? I may have uncovered something related to what direction the lower rivets go based on your answers.

   I have the Aero riveter. That user review about needing a vise clamp to keep it from flexing makes me suspicious of the reviewer. This is 3/4" thick 6061-T6 billet aluminum, which is pretty strong. Besides, the rivets on the Camaro grill trim are aluminum and I have never encountered any flexing of the tool. If you want, I will loan you the tool at no charge for its use. PM me your address and the only cost I would ask for is you pay shipping both ways. I figure it may be around $5 each way to ship this.

Mike
67 04B LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 05B NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored

Mike S

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Re: GRILL RIVETS 1967 (or '68?)-
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2021, 12:03:30 AM »
Hi Charley,
   Here are two picture of the grill to lower trim and lower trim to lower valance rivet ends using the Aero rivet setting tool. Let me explain the grill lower trim to lower valance rivet direction.
My post from 2014 showing the 04B LOS is from the bottom up on the original trim. My 05B NOR convertible was restored the same way earlier in the 80's using original trim (no repro trim then). I have since re-restored my NOR about 5 years ago and now remember why I HAD to install the rivets from the inside out. The reproduction lower trim has holes that are slightly larger than the original trim (it was cosmetically in bad shape which is why I changed it) so I had to install the rivets the way the manual shows it otherwise the rivets rolled ends would still fall out of the hole when set. When compressing the rivet I stopped just as I would feel the rivet play cease this way I didn't cut into the paint film. My thinking is the reproduction trim sold is for 67 & 68 and 68 used screws (?).  Unless someone makes an exact repro. for 67 I'll have to keep the rivet direction the way the manual shows.  Anyhow, you can see the rivet ends roll nicely. I had two of the trim to valance rivet ends slightly split on one side, but that split is also shown in the photos of the original 04B LOS grill.
 Let me know if you need other pictures.

Mike
67 04B LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 05B NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored

Charley PHX

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Re: GRILL RIVETS 1967 (or '68?)-
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2021, 02:42:56 AM »
MIKE... FANTASTIC... THANK YOU FOR POSTING!   

I found out our lower trim piece is a repro.  No measurements yet, but I got the verbal clarification from my car builder.

Passing this along, will follow up if any more questions! 
'67 04D (LOS) L-35/M20 Convertible (owned since 1975) - Restored 2013-2022 (perpetually still 'in progress")
'67 06D (LOS) L-78 Coupe (body) (1979 barn find) - Traded 2018 to my car builder!

Charley PHX

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Re: GRILL RIVETS (1967)
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2021, 08:05:19 AM »
Following-up (finally) with an update and some photos.  Thanks MIKE for your previous inputs!  I'm adding my experiences, in the event it may be helpful for someone else...

I ordered the Zip/Aero rivet tool in early June, and finally got a chance to use it last weekend. 

Also I had ordered the rivets #3855120 and #3899834 from AMK.:I felt both of these were a faithful reproduction.

I took copious volumes of photos during this mini-project.  I've curated this down to what I felt were the most meaningful toward the main point(s); so as to keep this discussion concise...

------------------------           

Picking-up where left off above... We determined both trim pieces are in fact original pieces (not repops).   

First thing I wanted to do was get measurements for the mounting holes.  Using drill bits incremented by 1/64", I determined the original mounting holes were 7/32" (both trim pieces (3 rows of holes) and also the lower valence panel).

This was also true for the plastic center grille #3898141 (Good 1967 repro from Heartbeat City)(without the raised ribs a la '68) ;

Some of the holes were kinda hacked-up from prior attempts.  The 7/32" measurements came from holes that were undamaged. (more on this to follow)...



'67 04D (LOS) L-35/M20 Convertible (owned since 1975) - Restored 2013-2022 (perpetually still 'in progress")
'67 06D (LOS) L-78 Coupe (body) (1979 barn find) - Traded 2018 to my car builder!

Charley PHX

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Re: GRILL RIVETS 1967 (or '68?)-
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2021, 08:07:17 AM »
Also to note... from the factory, not always perfect!  more on this later too...
'67 04D (LOS) L-35/M20 Convertible (owned since 1975) - Restored 2013-2022 (perpetually still 'in progress")
'67 06D (LOS) L-78 Coupe (body) (1979 barn find) - Traded 2018 to my car builder!

Charley PHX

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Re: GRILL RIVETS 1967 (or '68?)-
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2021, 08:09:16 AM »
The tool was easy to use (almost too easy).  Lots of adjustment available to squeeze it into places where the upper & lower rivets are close together...

The instructions say the tool should be used at 10 ft-lbs torque (max 12#).  I set the wrench for 100 inch-lbs (8.3 ft/lbs)-- that seemed to work OK.
'67 04D (LOS) L-35/M20 Convertible (owned since 1975) - Restored 2013-2022 (perpetually still 'in progress")
'67 06D (LOS) L-78 Coupe (body) (1979 barn find) - Traded 2018 to my car builder!

Charley PHX

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Re: GRILL RIVETS 1967 (or '68?)-
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2021, 08:10:34 AM »
Some came out better than others.  SLOW & EASY gave a much better result than rushing... 

Regardless; I'm not unhappy with the result.  As noted above:  not always perfect from the factory either!
'67 04D (LOS) L-35/M20 Convertible (owned since 1975) - Restored 2013-2022 (perpetually still 'in progress")
'67 06D (LOS) L-78 Coupe (body) (1979 barn find) - Traded 2018 to my car builder!