Is this the end of GM?

[crossboss]

Boys,
Just heard on the news (IF you believe them), that GM is canceling ALL gas powered vehicles by 2035. Every model will be electric. Is this the end of GM as we know it? Your thoughts...

[bcmiller]

A lot can change between now and then.

[Z282NV]

If GM's quality does not improve and that includes any EV they plan on making will they even survive to 2035?

[BillOhio]

Will our trade ins be worthless?  That will be a problem if they decide to take our diesel farm equipment away.  No one will want to buy a new line up of equipment.  I have heard mechanics say the air coming out is cleaner than the air going in

[Stingr69]

The GM statement was qualified by including government support.  That might not happen.  Only time will tell.

[Mike S]

 Hopefully there will be a big push to further develop the process to recycle a large percentage of lithium-ion battery components such as cobalt and lithium to reduce the impact on the environment.

Mike

[Vince]

Will our trade ins be worthless?  That will be a problem if they decide to take our diesel farm equipment away.  No one will want to buy a new line up of equipment.  I have heard mechanics say the air coming out is cleaner than the air going in

Many years ago when I took my 1975 Camaro, the first year for catalytic converters, in  for a smog check at my local Chevy dealer one of the mechanics told me the air coming out my tailpipes was cleaner than the air in the building they were in. 

[crossboss]

Boys,
Here is an excellent comment on another site concerning this electric car topic:

     Wait until the "Tree-Huggers" witness the environmental devastation and the slave labor engrossed in the execution of mining for the materials for their savior batteries!     

     And, based on the current (pun intended     ) battery technology there isn't going to be enough raw materials, particularly such as Lithium & cobalt to accomplish this dream.  Of course the "plan" is that by the time society gets there (2030-35), the technology will have progressed to solve such.  Well I just hope that we humans don't charge (     ) up to the cliffs' edge and end up driven over the edge to our own calamity like the Lemming!     

[MO]

That is a very eco friendly and responsible gesture, at least to politicos. So maybe GM quits building them and outsources them or gets them from a subsidiary. There are some forms of transportation that I don't see as viable for battery power. And would GM want to miss out on other opportunities? I guess we'll see in 2035. Either way, expect petroleum products to be outrageously expensive. Of course the price of electricity, at least in CA, will be too.

This is only likely if some factions of political groups push there agendas forward. So be thoughtful of who you are voting for and hold them accountable for their campaign promises....no matter which side of this you are on. I'm not against EV's, they definitely fill a need and have a purpose.

 

[Kelley W King]

 I think the EV,s would be great for daily transportation. But a lot has to be done in 14 years to charge them. Not just the chargers but most of the countrys grid system cannot handle a 6PM load to charge a country full of cars. Even if the non fossil fuel power plants can generate the power the system mostly cannot transport it. Picture the lines on your street melting. Add no gas heating or cooking in the picture, solar that does not work in the dark. Seems building the cars is a small part of the feat.

[crossboss]

My worthless two cents...
Im very confidant oil and gas powered vehicles are not going away. Why you say? Too many of us are addicted to our internal combustion cars, the vast array of such, and most important, people are not going to like it when their electric bills, and the 'short' travels these EV will allow. Imagine getting stranded without any source of charging stations, and a 300 mile trip will take 4 days. This electric car crap was forced among us Californians a number of years ago and bombed. Charging stations were built, yet no (very few) customers using them. So, where are all of these charging stations now? Long gone...and thats in a 'blue' state.

[MO]

I think the EV,s would be great for daily transportation. But a lot has to be done in 14 years to charge them. Not just the chargers but most of the countrys grid system cannot handle a 6PM load to charge a country full of cars. Even if the non fossil fuel power plants can generate the power the system mostly cannot transport it. Picture the lines on your street melting. Add no gas heating or cooking in the picture, solar that does not work in the dark. Seems building the cars is a small part of the feat.

Completely agree.

[adjudimo]

This is all about saving the environment, right?: Well, actually GM, but this is part of the equation also. if you read about the mining exploits/methods/effects and then the construction of lithium/cobalt etc. batteries, they are actually pretty detrimental to the environment from the start and during production. Not only that, but where are all these discarded batteries going to end up when their usage life is over?  Incinerated and hope that they catch the harmful deposits before getting into our atmosphere or buried and hope they don't cause water/soil poisoning. I'm not saying read one article with the bias of one writer, but several research articles to actually get an idea about the pros and cons. And I agree, our grid system can't handle the load especially at higher demand times. We know how many cars are already lined up at the gas pumps. Imagine the hours waiting in line for a single charge while out traveling, even at one of the current so called fast chargers. Traffic would be at a stand still. We will be actually purchasing batteries with a auto body and interior thrown in for good measure. It will be a world of disposable auto's. If the battery goes bad, it will be cheaper and probably smarter to just buy a new battery with another auto thrown in again, instead of replacement. I can see it now at the used car lot. "Car never used as a welder power supply". I do not proclaim to be in any way an expert concerning this matter, but this is the concensus that all the articles that I have read have lead me to at this current time. And Ford has also announced that by 2035 they would be all electric. Stellantis, the parent company of Dodge is also making plans leaning toward electric and phasing out the combustion engine, but I didn't see any dates mentioned.

[maroman]

Before this all turns sideways this has NOTHING to do with 1967-8-9 Camaros.

[69Z28-RS]

Before this all turns sideways this has NOTHING to do with 1967-8-9 Camaros.

If you can't get fuel or parts, you won't be driving (or repairing) your '67-69 Camaros... 

[Z282NV]

Before this all turns sideways this has NOTHING to do with 1967-8-9 Camaros.

If you can't get fuel or parts, you won't be driving (or repairing) your '67-69 Camaros...

Then you will then just have to convert it to a 450V

https://electrek.co/2019/11/05/electric-1969-chevrolet-camar-new-plug-play-ev-conversion-kit/

[Mike S]

  Nothing wrong with a little garage talk especially if there is a future possibility of our gas powered classic cars either carbon taxed heavily out right -or- banned from the roads due to emission requirements that are unattainable with old cars. Interesting conversation nonetheless.

Mike

[Stingr69]

There are electric cars that can go to stations to swap batteries faster than you can fill up your tank with gas.  Not in this country YET.

The political forces pushing the issue are trying to make this "EV" option sound good but generating all that electricity will burn a LOT of fossil fuel!   Unless........the public opinion changes on atomic energy.   This is where we are going, one way or another.  EV's and nuclear power to save the planet.

[crossboss]

Before this all turns sideways this has NOTHING to do with 1967-8-9 Camaros.

You wont be driving/repairing ANY internal combustion powered car, period. There, I fixed it.

[Z282NV]

Before this all turns sideways this has NOTHING to do with 1967-8-9 Camaros.

You wont be driving/repairing ANY internal combustion powered car, period. There, I fixed it.

LOL, I can tell you with some of the headaches my Holley Street Avenger carb has given me that might be a good thing.

[GMAD_Van Nuys]

I lost whatever small input I had with GM when Fidelity, who took over administration of the retirement program for GM salaried-employees in 2003, sold all my shares of GM stock the day before the company went Chapter 11 for $1/share.

[MO]

There are electric cars that can go to stations to swap batteries faster than you can fill up your tank with gas.  Not in this country YET.

The political forces pushing the issue are trying to make this "EV" option sound good but generating all that electricity will burn a LOT of fossil fuel!   Unless........the public opinion changes on atomic energy.   This is where we are going, one way or another.  EV's and nuclear power to save the planet.

Supposedly the future is fusion.

[MO]

Not only that, but where are all these discarded batteries going to end up when their usage life is over?   

Send them with the Mars rover.

[crossboss]

This whole electric car thing that is being forced upon us is a joke. The biggest hypocrites proposing this farce are the so called 'greenies' who ride in limos, drive their 8mpg Bentleys, and fly in their private jets to accept awards/go across the county for dinner, along with their 15K a month electric bills in their mansions. These so called 'save the planet' people create a carbon footprint larger than 500,000 people. Its the 'Do as I say, not as I do crowd' that need to conserve the most.

[MO]

Again, people need to understand the the underlying issues, become informed and vote for politicians/policies accordingly. Most people are sold on the "saving something for our children and grandchildren" mentality. But no one is telling them what the true reality of that is. Believe me, I am all for saving the planet, recycling and such. But we are headed down the wrong path currently and this discussion has shown some of the flaws with the logic. For the most part, most people won't do anything until they are forced too, and by then it's too late to do anything but follow along.

Sorry, but I think we have gotten away from how this relates to GM's decision from the original post. I think manufacturers are saying what is expected of them now, and will let the chips fall as they may when the 2030's get here.

[crossboss]

Again, people need to understand the the underlying issues, become informed and vote for politicians/policies accordingly. Most people are sold on the "saving something for our children and grandchildren" mentality. But no one is telling them what the true reality of that is. Believe me, I am all for saving the planet, recycling and such. But we are headed down the wrong path currently and this discussion has shown some of the flaws with the logic. For the most part, most people won't do anything until they are forced too, and by then it's too late to do anything but follow along.

Sorry, but I think we have gotten away from how this relates to GM's decision from the original post. I think manufacturers are saying what is expected of them now, and will let the chips fall as they may when the 2030's get here.

I believe my prior comment does relate to GM. Why? Because they (and other manufacturers) are in my opinion, bowing down to the politicians, hypocrites, and Hollywood types who are making all the noise. Its the old saying: "The squeaky wheel gets the grease".

[Kelley W King]

I think GM and others will build what sells. There will be fuel for our classics for a long time. More things than just cars depend on it. People who think we can just do away with it just can,t see the big picture. My 62 solar panels at my house are nice, but they don,t work well with snow on them but my gas generator does.

[crossboss]

Boys,
Saw this post on my other site concerning the same topic. Kinda scary how the corporations think:

GM sees China as their future. They have moved most of their engineering there and have several plants cranking out cars with zero corporate liability. Many years ago a friend worked at Motor Trend and sat in on a panel where GM was saying they were tired of being sued when a wheel fell off a 55 Chevy. They wanted cars to last 7 years and be scrapped. They love the slave labor rates in China more than the UAW mandates for overtime, pensions and healthcare. At that time there was over $5,000 in each car for what they called legacy costs to cover retiree pensions and healthcare for them. In the end GM will become just another foreign car company selling their wares in America.

[adjudimo]

If that is what they want to do and since their cars are going to be built in China, well then maybe, we either buy from a company still in the US, or buy a foreign car built other than from one who bailed on the USA. Simply, don't support them with purchases. Let'em sell them to the Chinese. Let their new liabilities be of their own making. I feel sorry for the younger generation with what seems be be lurking ahead. Use to be the older guys would make comments about wishing they could be in that young fellows shoes now. Well, I'm older now and I don't hear that comment anymore. Not in this day and age. Wonder why?

[crossboss]

If that is what they want to do and since their cars are going to be built in China, well then maybe, we either buy from a company still in the US, or buy a foreign car built other than from one who bailed on the USA. Simply, don't support them with purchases. Let'em sell them to the Chinese. Let their new liabilities be of their own making. I feel sorry for the younger generation with what seems be be lurking ahead. Use to be the older guys would make comments about wishing they could be in that young fellows shoes now. Well, I'm older now and I don't hear that comment anymore. Not in this day and age. Wonder why?

I hate to say this, I lost all faith in General Motors when they filed for BK and we the taxpayers bailed them out. I WILL shop elsewhere. Some say Ford was the only one not taking tax money. However, Im not pleased with them also. So, whats remaining on the US front? Chrysler...yep they took taxpayer money too. 'I' will never buy a foreign car. So, for me a newer used car is the ticket. A 2-3 year older Challenger is very appealing...

[MO]

I doubt they would make a complete pullout, but greatly downsizing is possible. It could end up being Corvette, truck/suv and enough EV plants (to qualify for mileage, credits and grants) are all that remain stateside. 

[crossboss]

I doubt they would make a complete pullout, but greatly downsizing is possible. It could end up being Corvette, truck/suv and enough EV plants (to qualify for mileage, credits and grants) are all that remain stateside.

Isn't that what Ford is currently doing/going also? Trucks, EV/SUVs, and Mustangs? No 'car' production. Sad.

[MO]

I doubt they would make a complete pullout, but greatly downsizing is possible. It could end up being Corvette, truck/suv and enough EV plants (to qualify for mileage, credits and grants) are all that remain stateside.

Isn't that what Ford is currently doing/going also? Trucks, EV/SUVs, and Mustangs? No 'car' production. Sad.

If that's true, I guess that's the trend then.

[Kelley W King]

Wonder what Texans with EV,s did last week. Hate to think my wife or kids needed to go to doctor and my car was dead with no where to fuel it.

[crossboss]

Wonder what Texans with EV,s did last week. Hate to think my wife or kids needed to go to doctor and my car was dead with no where to fuel it.

Thats a non-issue. Really. Texans drive big trucks. Believe me I lived there in 2018-2020 and seen it with my own eyes. Very RARELY will you see a small car or an EV. In the two years I never saw a Toyota Prius in Houston.

[KurtS]

They can plan, but economics drive decisions.
Want more houses? Provide loans.
Want more EVs? Have higher fuel prices. But without that, not sure what's going to drive people to change to EV's.

[maroman]

How about $9.00 gasoline??

[Kelley W King]

Throw in a carbon tax on gasoline cars and that should do it.

[crossboss]

Throw in a carbon tax on gasoline cars and that should do it.

How about $9.00 gasoline??

The public wont stand for that.. and a lot of politicians heads will roll.

[Mike S]

I had seen this today on Facebook and thought of this topic:

[janobyte]

Nope,,dinosaurs used to quarry the stone, for the wheels, emits mass amounts of methane..

Ugg..trying real hard not to comment, I'll leave it at agree with the above posts.

[crossboss]

I had seen this today on Facebook and thought of this topic:

Thats funny, and made my day! Maybe a special 'Fred Flintstone' model is on the menu?

[janobyte]

Well in the U.S.
I guess if you are in the know,or controlling the strings, start investing now in quarries overseas, lol.

[adjudimo]

Yabba Dabba Dooo!!!

[rich69rs]

Saw yesterday where Volvo has joined the all EV only product line by 2030.  Someone better start revising/building the infrastructure to support replacing over 200,000,000 vehicles with internal combustion engines in the US.

[Petes L48]

I've always wondered about the availability of Lithium and other resources to make all these batteries, solar panels, windmills etc. that will be needed, and then the eventual disposal or recycling of them.  Hopefully someone is looking that far down the road. 

[adjudimo]

I've always wondered about the availability of Lithium and other resources to make all these batteries, solar panels, windmills etc. that will be needed, and then the eventual disposal or recycling of them.  Hopefully someone is looking that far down the road. 

It will probably be smoke and mirrors mindset. Or hide and seek type of mentality. The components and manufacturing are toxic to the environment, and then there's the disposal (melted, burnt, buried). Like mentioned earlier, I am in no way any type of expert on this matter, but most of all reading and research that I have done leads me to the conclusion that it will in most part lead to more harm than is suggested by some. And then there is the aspect that if we go that route and lithium , cobalt and such reach a near non existent level then only the wealthy will have access to the only form of auto travel offered. Supply and demand has always been the driving force behind it all. MONEY!

[Kelley W King]

I recently read an article that says if 66% of US vehicles were electric the US electricity generation would have to double and most likely would peak at night when solar does not work. I consider myself as "green" as most with 62 solar panels at my home but math is math. We have a long way to go unless one of us invents a new battery or new power generator. I wouldn,t ditch your gas cars too soon.

[crossboss]

The 'powers that be' aka big oil companies wont let this happen, even 'IF' electric only was proposed by the politicians. I also believe as it has been mentioned, 'most' Americans are not going to give up our internal combustion gas powered cars so easily. We are addicted to them.

[MO]

The 'powers that be' aka big oil companies wont let this happen

LOL....that sounds like what my dad and his buddies said about the (phantom) 200 MPG carburetors.

[KurtS]

We'll be moving to better battery tech, hopefully soon if some of the research pans out. And thus not need hard to find elements like lithium for the batteries.

[usa1ti]

The 'powers that be' aka big oil companies wont let this happen, even 'IF' electric only was proposed by the politicians. I also believe as it has been mentioned, 'most' Americans are not going to give up our internal combustion gas powered cars so easily. We are addicted to them.

There really is a lot of truth to this. If you look at one of Fords marketing campaigns for the first production V8 it was "32mpg in a new 1932 Ford V8". 90! years later we have since evolved to 8 speed transmissions, computer controlled fuel injection with O2 sensors, lightweight aluminum / composite bodies, very low drag body designs, ETC. My Jeep Grand Cherokee still doesn't get 32mpg... not even close. Wonder why? Big oil will lobby and control. Just like wind and solar, battery technology will never fill the demand. The only true tipping point will come with hydrogen fuel cell technology and that will need to be really cheap. To put it in perspective. I have worked in Teir 1 Automotive almost 30 years. Our build rates for complete power steering systems peaked at 17,500 per DAY! We worked 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 360 days a year. We were the 3rd largest in the US so 2 were bigger for the US market. That's how many cars are being built and sold every day. NO way batteries can fill this. When the rubber hits the road in reality you will find out that most of these announcements are to pander to the current woke cancel culture...