Author Topic: 1967 302 small journal connecting rods (Read 9871 times)

opelitis1 · « **on:** June 10, 2020, 02:39:04 PM »

Going through my listings and, lo n behold I found information pertaining my connecting rods with 11/32 nds SPS bolts. Rods have had 3 runs on them at maybe 6000 - 6400 rpm at the most until the number 4 main bearing saddle cracked finishing the 337 c.i.
I have since located these rods and could someone tell me what color daub of paint is at the small end of the rods from GM..??
Rods are "floating" type. Bought in 74 - or 1976. These are like brand, brand new GM 302 Z28 small journal rods that we had bolted up to crank 3838495.

Thanks!!
Ted

opelitis1 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 12, 2020, 11:09:09 AM »

Good morning Gentlemen!! There has to be someone that could gimme a hand with the identification of these small journal connecting rods. They are not 'press-fitted' but are I believe the term is free-floating. In '67 from what I have been reading, the rods were in fact press-fitted. I bought these new from a dealer here in Montreal back in the mid 70s new, along with blue tipped push rods, 3938495 special crank, angle plug heads 3965742 dated Q15 3 and Q16 3 . I had to bring the crank back to the dealer as it was not straight according to the engine builder back then. They supplied another 3838495 and it was o.k. Pushrods might've been 1.79 each way back then.
Had all the bills on file but the only one I can find right now is for the blue tips. Pistons for the setup were TRW 2211 AF 060 models. The intake was an Edelbrock tunnel ram with 2 660 centre shooters. All this in a light 49 Anglia that I never got to drive as I traded her (the car) for a 56 Chebby. Frigging mistake as the 49 was beautiful.
TRW slugs are still attached to the Z28 SJ rods.
Nothing nefarious here gentlemen. I have to be sure that the color of "paint or dye" is correct. Again rods are with 3 low rpm runs on 'em.
If pictures would be in order, for your help, no problemmo!
Sorry re. the long thread.
Ted
I want to be sure the
Nothing nefarious here gentlemen. Perfect for the enthusiast who must have correct parts for his 1967 302 Z28.

Stingr69 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 12, 2020, 01:25:17 PM »

You have some old small journal rods. You describe them as small journal full floating type but there are none of them used in production engines. If it was a HD Service part, you might have something, but my old 70's Power Manual catalog only lists 3864881 as a small journal heavy duty service rod, and that one is not full floating. If the small end has been dipped in babbit, it would be interesting to see. If it is just honed for a floating pin fit, It could have been done by the builder.

They are not "correct" for anything. Just a set of modified old SJ rods with upgraded bolts.

jdv69z · « **Reply #3 on:** June 12, 2020, 02:14:51 PM »

I was under the impression that the 67 Z's rods were the same as regular production rods. Nothing special about them?

opelitis1 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 12, 2020, 05:21:53 PM »

Good afternoon!
The rods I have were bought under number 3927145 if memory serves. There is a light whitish creamy paint or dye fogged onto each rod. I'll take a few pics of various areas of the sj rods.. If you Google the above p/n they were the top of the line rod for 67 Z28. The 7145 rod was to have come from the factory magnafluxed, heat treated, and shotpeened and selected for the best possible rod-to-cap parting surfaces. This is from Chevy DIY.com.. I know the 67 rod had a press-fit pin. Mine are full-floating and the bolts are SPS which was the way to go at the time. I am trying to dig out my old bill from a Chevy dealier in the East End of Montreal which has not existed for many, many a year. I have 1 bill so far for the Blue Tip Pushrods. My old listings point to the 3927145 p/n. Just this weird creamy dye on each rod must say something as I have other sj rods minus this application. I can get pictures of these beauties if it'll aid in figuring this out.
I'd like to PM photos that I will take and not splash 'em everywhere on the web to have people somehow copy the dye and get numbers on the big ends to "screw" an unknowing person.
Thanks in advance!!
Ted

opelitis1 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 13, 2020, 12:33:01 AM »

Good evening gentlemen!
I took some pics to help figure out the pin retaining method for the SJ rods. I do not see any circlips.
Can someone here accept the pictures and take a discerning peekand let me know??
Ted

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #6 on:** June 13, 2020, 03:23:57 AM »

Quote from: jdv69z on June 12, 2020, 02:14:51 PM

I was under the impression that the 67 Z's rods were the same as regular production rods. Nothing special about them?

There were two versions of early V8 rods; reg production for smaller horsepower engines and a stronger HD rod with thicker rod caps and big ends... The '67 302 used the HD rods as did most of the HP and SHP engines of that period.

opelitis1 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 15, 2020, 10:05:08 AM »

Good morning gentlemen!!
Retaining method is not circlips, I still need someone one who is knowledgeable in this regard to help me figure out how they held in the piston pins by checking out 2 photos.
Thanks!!
Ted

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #8 on:** June 15, 2020, 12:57:17 PM »

Without circlips, the piston pin is either pressed into the rod small end OR the piston. If the pin is 'fully floated' (as in '69 302 engines), then circlips are used since both the pistons and the rod end are free to rotate around the pin.

Stingr69 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 15, 2020, 04:47:27 PM »

Ted,
You never sent them to me.

opelitis1 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 15, 2020, 05:43:45 PM »

Will send 'em later tonight Stingr69..
Merci - Thanks!!
Ted

Stingr69 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 16, 2020, 01:12:11 PM »

Ted,
The parts in the pix are aftermarket forged oversize pistons with retainer grooves. Rods have white paint marks.

No retainers in the piston pin retainer grooves so I suspect they are not floating rods. It is common to use pressed pin type rods with pistons that have pin retainer grooves but you should not put retainers in them.

opelitis1 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 17, 2020, 10:37:32 AM »

The pistons are; TRW 2211 AF 060 Powerforged units. Going 060 over was a mite of a stretch, but, at the time it was the way the go. I'll see if a couple of old time engine builders are still available and, if I have to, I'll bring a rod n' piston for them to try'n remember how the pins were retained back in the day. Spiro locks kinda ring a bell, but one of these people would have to take a peek. I am sure these were purchased new as 67 302 Z28 SJ rods.
The goal was to race the lightweight Anglia with a TRW 1Y intake and 2 Holley 660 cfm centre shooters plus angle plug heads. A Crane roller cam of .548 lift with 272 duration was chosen for the setup. Plans went astray as I traded the english Ford for a 56 Chevy as it was going to cost $$$ to redo the suspension front and rear and get a real cage in the l'il beast to make her safe.

Looking back, I should've went with the Anglia. But, what da heck eh?? Had a real brain and great guy by the name of Joe Roy who worked down at Zekes in Lachine all set to do the work.

Sorry about the trip down memory lane, late 70s - to mid 80s
Gonna have to get back to you gentlemen on the 67 Z28 rods.

Take care eh and, thanks Stingr69!!!
Ted in Montreal

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #13 on:** June 17, 2020, 11:50:10 AM »

Did you ever post photos of the Rods??

bcmiller · « **Reply #14 on:** June 17, 2020, 12:06:40 PM »

If he did, I didn’t see them.

3864881 is the 1967 connecting rod used for 302 and 327. Don’t think there is anything super special about it.

Early 68 (first design) 302 rods are pink rods, but not full floating. Late 68 (and 69 as mentioned) are full floating.

Stingr69 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 17, 2020, 01:16:52 PM »

I did see the pix. Just a little confusion here.

They are actually pressed pin rods with pistons that have empty retainer grooves. The grooves are put in the piston pin bores by the manufacturer in case you want to use the pistons with floating rods. You are not required to assemble them with floating rods but it is an option with those pistons. If you are not using a floating rod, you should not use any retainers and the guy who assembled them did not use retainers.

Bottom line - If they don't have any retainers installed, a floating assembly should fall apart in your hands. These pins in question are pressed in.

opelitis1 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 17, 2020, 05:02:18 PM »

Good afternoon bcmiller and 69Z28-RS . .
I took a few pics and sent 'em over to Stingr69 as we were conversing re. the rods. I'd be indebted to you if you'd take a gander at the photos.
Maybe Stingr69 could send them to you. If not, my wife'll be back later but I'd need an e-mail address to send them to.
Apparently the rods were heat-treated - magnafluxed etc. etc. from GM. Thing that is great is, we put 3 - 4 runs on 'em and then the number 4 main saddle cracked in the block putting the rods n pistons on hold for many, many a year until I just spotted them on my inventory listing.

A question for Bryon, is your SS396 looking for a real 1968 396 / 335 h.p. engine # 3916323 suffix coded TO911 MY 18N31 X X X X

Casted in H 67 !

Let me know re. the connecting rod pics. I appreciate your help gentlemen.

Ted

bcmiller · « **Reply #17 on:** June 17, 2020, 05:17:04 PM »

That 396 could be my engine. But pretty sure mine was an MQ.

I will send you an email on the rod pics.

bcmiller · « **Reply #18 on:** June 20, 2020, 02:56:40 PM »

Never heard back or received any pics.

Stingr69 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 20, 2020, 03:24:18 PM »

Quote from: bcmiller on June 20, 2020, 02:56:40 PM

Never heard back or received any pics.

He did ask me to send you pix. If you PM me your email address I can send them.

Stingr69 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 20, 2020, 05:18:38 PM »

bcmiller,
you have mail.

opelitis1 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 21, 2020, 11:39:39 AM »

Good morning Gentlemen!!
BCM pics of me '68 335 h.p. REAL suffix - coded will be a coming up. Sorry for the delay. Still after the connecting rod / pin / TRW conversation. Have heard from one lad that the pins are 'press fit' but the engine builder at the time in the mid 70s to very early 80s used pin retainers as the newly bought TRW pistons already had grooves in them from when purchased.
This is the latest so far and I do appreciate Stingr69 and bcmiller giving me inputs.
Pics of the 68 Camaro engine coming soon. Suffix coded: TO911 MY
Sorry for delay but....
Ted

bcmiller · « **Reply #22 on:** June 21, 2020, 01:40:29 PM »

Pics.

bcmiller · « **Reply #23 on:** June 21, 2020, 08:49:07 PM »

Parts book images for rod part numbers.

3864881 seems to be the part number for 302 and 327 rods in 1967.

I believe there is a typo and where is says 64-69 that should be 64-67.

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #24 on:** June 22, 2020, 08:03:46 PM »

With the piston flat on the table and the rod resting on the skirt...
STICK YOUR FINGER IN hole on the end of THE PIN and spin the pin 360 degrees, if you cannot do this the pin is pressed.

opelitis1 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 23, 2020, 04:05:36 AM »

Good evening firstgenaddict !!
Can't spin the pin as requested. I do not remember the engine builder suggesting "floating pin" usage. I have a few old TRW catalogues still hanging around and I'll see if they suggest using the clips with a pressed in pin or, was it by choice of the engine builder?
I kinda wonder about the yellowish / creamy discoloration on all the rods. It could be that I applied a white grease say 40 years ago to protect the rods or when the magnaflux process was done did it leave any discoloration??
Thanks!
Ted

Checked an L2248 piston / rod combo and lo n behold, it used the same retention system as the

bcmiller · « **Reply #26 on:** June 23, 2020, 09:12:44 AM »

If you can’t spin the pin, they are not full floating.

This is an example of a pink rod.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/233616362040

I don’t know but it’s possible the rods you have could have been marked off white for identification.

opelitis1 · « **Reply #27 on:** June 23, 2020, 10:35:15 AM »

Good morning!!
Looks like the same "fogging" that the large journal pink rods have, only, these small journal beasties are adorned with a white / creamy / yellowish fog type. We
ran them on the fabled 3838495 crank for 3 - 4 runs at the very most in a heavy 75 Firebird Esprit + Turbo 350 trans.

Toooo bad Mr. JohnZ isn't close by as he was the "wealth of GM knowledge" and was always very willing to share his General Motors experience(s) to all who had questions.
He has (had) a scrapbook if I remember correctly, and if something kinda tickled his fancy and was not already in this book. He would let you know that he was going to include whatever he was missing into his book of memoires.
Anyways... if anyone else wants to chime in on me 302 1967 Z28 SJ connecting rods, you are welcome.
Have a good day eh boys!!!
Ted

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #28 on:** June 23, 2020, 11:27:05 AM »

It's also too bad you can't post a decent photo of the rods.. both ends.

bcmiller · « **Reply #29 on:** June 23, 2020, 02:29:19 PM »

Gary what other details would you like to see?

opelitis1 · « **Reply #30 on:** June 23, 2020, 10:53:03 PM »

Good evening gentlemen!!
I will take other pics of the rods. I was concentrating on the pressed vs floating aspects. I will take other photos later tonight of the rods big end / small end etc etc
If there are specific shots you'd like, just lemme know.
Ted

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #31 on:** June 24, 2020, 02:49:21 AM »

Quote from: bcmiller on June 23, 2020, 02:29:19 PM

Gary what other details would you like to see?

A photograph from the side (showing the rim around the big end - journal end) of the rod. That will show whether it's a 'std' rod (used in most non-hp small blocks), or the HD rod which was used in the higher performance small blocks thru the 60's.

opelitis1 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 24, 2020, 10:39:03 AM »

Good morning!!
Will take some pics tonight. Big holiday up here, St. Jean Baptiste and we a goin' up North to the Laurentians for the day.
Has been a wee bit warmish eh boys!?

In the future, I am going to try a a sound idle clip of my old NHRA cheater cam by Cam Dynamics with something like .384 lifts both sides and 245 degrees duration.
This cam has to be from the late 70s. All this in a 355 c.i. but, with 76 cc early, heavy 882 heads. Still pops a wee bit though.

Ted

bcmiller · « **Reply #33 on:** June 25, 2020, 02:55:40 AM »

Here you go Mr. Gary.

"1967 302s used the standard small journal rod of the time with a pressed in wrist pin and 5/16" rod bolts."

Many of the 67 Z28s saw track time and their engines were enhanced by Traco and others. I bet few if any ran in stock form.

bcmiller · « **Reply #34 on:** June 25, 2020, 03:08:49 AM »

And a pink rod for comparison.

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #35 on:** June 26, 2020, 03:40:05 PM »

Traco replaced the wrist pins with aftermarket in everything.
EXCEPT THE 67 L88... which to Chevrolet they recommended replacing prior to LEMANS.
Chevrolet stated they wanted to WIN LEMANS with a STOCK engine to ADVERTISE as such... Ironic that they LOST LEMANS because when in front by what seemed an insurmountable of a lead the Corvette was taken out by broken wrist pin windowing the block..

bcmiller · « **Reply #36 on:** July 04, 2020, 06:48:48 PM »

Well I guess Gary never came back to this post...

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #37 on:** July 04, 2020, 09:34:01 PM »

The photos didn't show much of what I was looking for, but his rod appears to be the 'std' heavy duty rod for the mid 60's. Used in 327's from 300 hp on up. Those same rods were used in '67 302 engines, although they may have been subjected to additional processing prior to being put into the 302 engines. The '67 302 I had used the same rods (run in NHRA stock classes which limited what parts could be used), although in my engine the 'stock' rods had been subjected to 'Hank the Crank's further work, as did the stock crankshaft... In the stock classes, the parts had to be 'stock production', but they allowed additional work to be done to them.

opelitis1 · « **Reply #38 on:** July 05, 2020, 11:07:26 AM »

Thanks a lot Gary W and bcmiller for helping out on my 302 small journal connecting rod identification. One should remember that with only 3 - 4 light runs in a 3600 +
Firebird, that there was not time to wear the yellowish fogging from my rods vis-a-vis the pink rod that Mr. BCM put up for us.
I was Googling the Tracy Performance site and the info on there with pictures was very interesting to say the least. I am sure the connecting rods on there are called
1967 302 SJ "Floater" Rods. I believe the information was found under Vintage Parts > then Crankshafts > then look for the various early First Gen. connecting rods.
Great clear photos on this Tracy site.
I will post pics up when I get the TRW 060 Powerforged slugs from the 302 SJ rods for your interest showing the small ends of the connecting rods.
Anybody else want to chime in, I would appreciate it.
Have a great Sunday gentlemen!!
Ted

bcmiller · « **Reply #39 on:** July 05, 2020, 01:19:29 PM »

Ted, you can look at my signature at the bottom of my posts to see my name. Bryon

opelitis1 · « **Reply #40 on:** July 06, 2020, 03:53:06 PM »

Will do from now on!
Merci encore / Thanks again Byron
Ted

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Author Topic: 1967 302 small journal connecting rods (Read 9871 times)