Author Topic: 69 Z Manual steering  (Read 588 times)

sixt9x33rs

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69 Z Manual steering
« on: June 05, 2020, 01:43:12 AM »
So I have had my car 15 years and always disliked the slack in the steering. I had the manual box rebuilt by Lares. Put back it back in and saw no improvement. Took it back out sent it back and they agreed they had made a mistake on the rebuild. Got it back re-installed and only mildly better than before. I am thinking that I may have another issue. I have installed a new idler arm. The ball joints are all original the car has 44k miles. What else is there to look over. I have seriously thought about putting PS in the car to eliminate this issue and make the car more drive able but I hate not keeping it original.
As a side note I have a 69 Chevelle with a rebuilt Lares manual steering box with new front suspension and it is sloppy too. Granted the Chevelle although a real L78 car only has the non fast ratio manual box.
Any suggestions are appreciated.
PS nice to be back on the board...has been awhile.

Lawrence
'69 RS Z/28 65B, 711 Flat hood no spoiler, endura, 4:10 43K miles
69 X77 Z/28 69 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored (Sold)
'69 X66 Convertible 69B 712 auto, (Sold) 44K miles

ko-lek-tor

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Re: 69 Z Manual steering
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2020, 02:16:12 AM »
Yes, welcome back old friend. I donít think a ps conversion will hurt the carís originality anymore than running custom wheels. Meaning, it can easily be changed back. Some would argue that the car gains value doing this improvement. Probably the hardest part to locate is the 1105 pulley. I know that I and several buddys on here have the pieces you need to do an accurate swap. Good luck!
James to strangers, Bentley to friends
1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 owned since 79
1969 SS 350 coupe LeMans Blue 713 bought in 79(sold)
1969 D.H.COPO replica 4spd. 4.10 posi coupe Daytona Yellow 711 owned since 85

z28z11

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Re: 69 Z Manual steering
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2020, 03:12:51 AM »
Lawrence,

I had this same consideration some years back - after a lot of thought, I decided for driveability to add PS to all three of the manual cars that I own, which are all manual trans cars (Z11 is already a PS equipped car). Always on the lookout for OE parts, price and availability is forcing me to consider reproduction pieces for the '69 and '68 pump pulleys, although everything else is correct. Just put the manual gears on the shelf - resist the urge to part with them. Like ko-lek-tor says, you can always change back.

By the way, how do you like horsing the L78 around with a manual gear when standing still or parking ? Real bear, ain't it ?

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06  1949 3100 5wd 235/6

sixt9x33rs

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Re: 69 Z Manual steering
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2020, 06:55:33 PM »
So before you guys installed PS was your manual steering as I described? Has slack in the box from 11 - 1 o'clock. Can't understand it.

The L78 steering is pathetic honestly. Has the one million to one lock to lock box in it. With big front radials it is a bitch to turn when stopped. If I keep the car it will be restored and OEM wheels and tires put back on it.
'69 RS Z/28 65B, 711 Flat hood no spoiler, endura, 4:10 43K miles
69 X77 Z/28 69 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored (Sold)
'69 X66 Convertible 69B 712 auto, (Sold) 44K miles

z28z11

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Re: 69 Z Manual steering
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2020, 02:34:39 AM »
Couple of things I'd check - drag your Chassis Service manual out and reset the sector adjuster (the lockscrew and screw on the top cover of the box), Take all of the slack out of the ball race (to spec), and see if that doesn't help the sloppy steering wheel bit. Wear and bad adjustment can get to the point where you're like a ship at sea with a bad rudder (or like my '49 pickup, which has a good 1/4 turn of slack in it). Makes for an exciting ride -

Double check your steering arms and pitman for correct part numbers, too - sometimes people assemble suspensions with great intentions for new parts; mix and match or wrong parts is not close enough. Make sure your tie rods arm or the pitman stud mount to the drag link are not worn or flexing. Everything should be tight, yet rotate smoothly. Worn tie rod ends can cause just what you're describing. especially when coupled with an incorrectly adjusted steering box. Use the Z pittman if you want a faster response, too -

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06  1949 3100 5wd 235/6

BULLITT65

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Re: 69 Z Manual steering
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2020, 04:51:08 PM »
I think it depends on the car. My white 69Z yes a lot of slop between 11 and 1, about 75k miles odometer (that I know of, could be 175?). Now the front bushings are shot and it needs the suspension gone through, so keep that in mind. . My red Z, nice and tight 46k original miles on it. Car drives like new.

I have had 66 Chevelle BB cars, and while power steering is nice to have on those, I have never felt the need for PS on my Small block cars. They have always felt light enough to go without. Personal preference though.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
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GMAD_Van Nuys

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Re: 69 Z Manual steering
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2020, 01:29:36 AM »
I don't believe that your manual steering box was rebuilt correctly if you still have slop.  Although you can make some adjustments to the steering box, this should not be necessary as this should have been done when it was rebuilt.  The ball joints are probably okay as your car has been driven only 44k miles.

crossboss

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Re: 69 Z Manual steering
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2020, 04:25:59 AM »
Check your rag-joints. Those are what connects your steering shaft to the box. Look carefully IF the splines are stripped, not tightened properly, and the nuts and bolts are good. Many times the rag-joint is the culprit and almost always over looked. After 50 plus years they are usually worn out/sloppy.
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z28z11

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Re: 69 Z Manual steering
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2020, 03:22:09 PM »
I don't believe that your manual steering box was rebuilt correctly if you still have slop.  Although you can make some adjustments to the steering box, this should not be necessary as this should have been done when it was rebuilt.  The ball joints are probably okay as your car has been driven only 44k miles.

"Took it out and sent it back and they agreed they had made a mistake on the rebuild" was a concern to me. When the OP got it back it was marginally better ? If the rebuilder missed something major, I wouldn't trust them setting the preload on the box to factory specs, either. Wouldn't hurt to set it back up correctly - just my opinion.

I suggest an extra person to help you inspect the steering - get up under the front and the hood and watch while the steering is in motion, importantly when the car is on the ground and the tires are in contact (and suspension loaded). You can look at tie rods, sector shaft action, idler arm and rag joint to see what is moving when it's not supposed to be moving, deflection and lack of response from the steering gear if you haven't done this already. Even with 44K miles, 51 year old parts can be marginal.

Regards,
Steve



1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06  1949 3100 5wd 235/6

GMAD_Van Nuys

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Re: 69 Z Manual steering
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2020, 08:26:04 PM »
It is possible that the slop is because the steering box pitman shaft gear is worn and needs to be replaced:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Chevelle-Camaro-Corvair-Steering-Pitman-Shaft-Z28-Quick-Ratio-5671822/383503374564?hash=item594a9518e4:g:E~YAAOSwqOxeei2a

Kelley W King

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Re: 69 Z Manual steering
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2020, 06:10:11 PM »
I would take the advise of a two person inspection. I left out a carter pin and a castle nut backed off. Nut had about two turns to go when I found it after driving it a couple weeks.
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sixt9x33rs

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Re: 69 Z Manual steering
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2020, 03:11:21 AM »
Guys great feedback! Thanks for all the comments. I am going to do the two person inspection next and see what I find. I also donít disagree that the box could had been rebuilt incorrectly.

I will report back what I find.
'69 RS Z/28 65B, 711 Flat hood no spoiler, endura, 4:10 43K miles
69 X77 Z/28 69 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored (Sold)
'69 X66 Convertible 69B 712 auto, (Sold) 44K miles

 

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