Author Topic: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners  (Read 2041 times)

Edgemontvillage

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1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« on: April 06, 2020, 04:43:33 PM »
I'm restoring the original 3/8" fuel line clips and fasteners on my Z/28 project and want to confirm the finishes on them. My originals and most other originals that I've seen are hard to assess due to weathering, accumulation of road debris, undercoating etc. The underside of some of the clips offer clues however for others they're not definitive. The aftermarket kits aren't a good reference either as they use colored phosphates vs dies and incorrect clip stampings. There are some partial threads on this subject on CRG but none that are very complete or usable as a front to back reference. The AIM is helpful but doesn't call out finishes. I haven't addressed the hoses or their clips in this post which I will deal with in a future posting.  I'd appreciate input on the markup of the photo of my originals taken during disassembly. The hardware was removed and placed in order of removal from back to front (left of photo to right) 

 

firstgenaddict

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2020, 05:33:58 PM »
Unless it will physically chip off the clips they were PROBABLY not semi gloss paint, they are in all likely hood  black passivation of ZINC (which would offer MUCH more corrosion resistance than black semigloss paint (the fuel block "Y" is also black passivation of ZINC). The reason I say this is the Olive clips were not painted they were OLIVE passivation of ZINC - which is the toughest ZINC passivation. Black fuel line and olive fuel line clamps that I have tested do not "chip"
Olive is toughest with Black being the next toughest.

 
With the blue dye, I AM SURE it was over ZINC plating.
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
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Edgemontvillage

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2020, 07:19:50 PM »
Unless it will physically chip off the clips they were PROBABLY not semi gloss paint, they are in all likely hood  black passivation of ZINC (which would offer MUCH more corrosion resistance than black semigloss paint (the fuel block "Y" is also black passivation of ZINC). The reason I say this is the Olive clips were not painted they were OLIVE passivation of ZINC - which is the toughest ZINC passivation. Black fuel line and olive fuel line clamps that I have tested do not "chip"
Olive is toughest with Black being the next toughest.
 
With the blue dye, I AM SURE it was over ZINC plating.


Thanks James. You refer to "olive clips", which one(s) are you saying receive that finish?

R68GTO

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2020, 11:54:36 PM »
Interesting post that there is such a variety for the same application. I had a mix of clip finishes on my fuel line but assumed since the fuel line had been replaced at some point in the car's life that the re-installer just used whatever clip he grabbed.  I have the same mix on my brake lines (separate post on CRG)....trying to figure out if the finish is application/location specific or is it just random hardware from multiple suppliers.  Between the fuel line and brake lines, I found blue, olive, and zinc on my car.
1969 427 COPO Camaro Lemans Blue/Black, M22 4 speed, 15,500 original miles

Edgemontvillage

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2020, 01:07:12 AM »
Thanks for your input, I'm hoping the product of this thread will be a clear and future reference for which finishes belong to which clips.

Edgemontvillage

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2020, 04:53:35 AM »
Was hoping for a few more informed posts?

R68GTO

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2020, 11:01:27 AM »
Me too!  I'm at that phase of restoration that I need to make a decision on what all my clips will be for brake and fuel lines.  Surely someone with one of those great untouched low mile survivor cars can help on this one?
1969 427 COPO Camaro Lemans Blue/Black, M22 4 speed, 15,500 original miles

68camaroz28

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2020, 12:02:52 PM »
Lloyd what might help with this is to show part # of each clip, screw, etc. as that makes it easier for cross reference, applying to aim or later searches.
I spent a lot of time reviewing what was on our 68 and a few part numbers were probably used on both years.
#3886522 clip natural steel
#3841230 screw  clear zinc
#3912538 clip phosphate from the looks of our original it was not manganese but for sure was some type of phosphate coating whether dark or lighter.
I can cross reference with part numbers to see what I might have.
Chick
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R68GTO

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2020, 03:37:03 PM »
Here's a summary of the AIM for 1969 V8 Brake and fuel line clips.
All clip screws for items below are part number 3958062.
Fuel line clips (starting from the rear)
3912538 - mounts to underside of rear frame
3952717 - inside of rear frame
3952717 - inside of rear frame
3886522 - dual clip on floorpan
3962722 - floorpan
3952717 - outside of front subframe
3952717 - outside of front subframe
3952717- inside of front subframe
3952717 - inside of front subframe
3952717 - top of crossmember
Brake line clips (starting from rear)
3956700 - rear differential (bolt is the cover bolt for differential)
3962722 - 3/8" inside of rear frame
3952717 - 3/8" inside of rear frame
3962722 - 3/8" floorpan
3962722 - 3/8" floorpan
3952717 - 3/8" outside front subframe
   ***replaced with 3908326 pressure reg. valve if equipped
3952717 - 3/8" outside front subframe
3952717 - 3/8" inside of front subframe
3952718 - 5/16" inside crossmember driver side
3953272 - 3/16" inside crossmember
3953272 - 3/16" inside crossmember
3952718 - 5/16" passenger front subframe
  ***replaced with 3955702 brake line stand on disc brake cars
1969 427 COPO Camaro Lemans Blue/Black, M22 4 speed, 15,500 original miles

R68GTO

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2020, 03:39:58 PM »
Here's my attempt at replicating original fuel and brake line clip finishes:
Brake line clip - Testers Olive Green aerosol
Fuel line clips - more experimentation on this one.....let me know which you think looks the most like the originals
1969 427 COPO Camaro Lemans Blue/Black, M22 4 speed, 15,500 original miles

JKZ27

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2020, 11:33:14 PM »
Here's some of mine from years ago. I didn't have a whole lot of detail in mind when I took these pictures, more just for location not color accuracy, sorry.
12B Norwood, SS350, 3speed manual, RS, A/C.

John
John
69 RS/SS Cortez Silver, L48 MC1
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JKZ27

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2020, 11:34:16 PM »
Pics
John
69 RS/SS Cortez Silver, L48 MC1
68 RS Ash/Ivy Gold 327EFI M20

Edgemontvillage

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2020, 06:13:15 PM »
Here's my attempt at replicating original fuel and brake line clip finishes:
Brake line clip - Testers Olive Green aerosol
Fuel line clips - more experimentation on this one.....let me know which you think looks the most like the originals

Although not a fuel line clip, from my limited research I believe the only green/olive brake clip used on a Z/28 is the the 5/16" clip, PN# 3952718 shown in the photo from R68GTO (red circled). The other, smaller (3/16") clips shown nearby, PN# 3953272 I believe are clear zinc / silver cad. The 5/16" clip is larger so it can clamp the protective wire sheathing also as shown in the photo. This can be seen in the AIM Pg 63, Sheet 5, UPC B1  The exception may be the clip used on the differential cover (right side) as shown in Post #11 which varies between 2 styles and 3 finishes and is usually natural.

5/16" clip, PN# 3952718






R68GTO

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2020, 01:27:44 AM »
I'm even more confused now.  My problem is probably that I'm trying to find a logical reason for the finishes from a car building mission which is what GM was focused on.  Logically, the factory might "color-code" the clips to help prevent a worker from grabbing the wrong part for the application.  In that sense, the comment about the 5/16 clip being the only olive green clip on the car makes sense as no other clip is 5/16.  Following that logic, the two 3/16 clips should be a different finish - silver cad?  I can buy that.  That leaves us with all the 3/8" clips for the brake and fuel lines.  Some have the tab that inserts into the frame, some do not.  It would make perfect sense to have the ones with tab one color (blue) and the ones without tab another color (black?). Unfortunately, this logic doesn't line up with what Loyd found on his car - mixture of blue and zinc on the clips with tabs.  Could a single part number be supplied with two different finishes?  I suppose so, but I would think a different finish would require a different part number?
I'll double check mine but I'm pretty confident that the fuel line clips on the rear frame on my car were blue originals with the tab - pretty sure the extra hole is in the frame for the tab.  I definitely don't understand the green clip in JKZ27's post that it came from the differential cover - that pic shows a clip with a tab.
I am completely confident that I am spending too much time on this topic ;)
1969 427 COPO Camaro Lemans Blue/Black, M22 4 speed, 15,500 original miles

cook_dw

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2020, 10:36:07 AM »
The closest blue I found to be using Dykem (machinist dye) just dip the clip a couple times until you get the desired consistency..  And yes multiple suppliers is a common thing for these cars.  Just look at the bolt heads differing.  The original print should call out a finish/color though so idk if there were exceptions or not.
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firstgenaddict

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2020, 03:07:44 PM »
Lloyd's blue clips are the closest I have ever seen to what I have found originally.
FWIW the above photo of the blue clip with 5/16 and the number 4 on it is one from a 12C X66 L35 conv I did years ago.
Here is another off of the 12C X66 Olive and you can see how much zinc is still on the clip... when dunked in mild acid the green and the silver both bubble... indicating zinc passivation.

James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
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firstgenaddict

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2020, 03:09:47 PM »
Here are a couple of 3/8" black ones off the same car.
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
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rsr

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2020, 06:00:11 PM »
Here's a mix of 69 clips with a couple originals I restored.

Edgemontvillage

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2020, 02:14:02 AM »
Here are the restored fuel line clips and bolts. All bolts are manganese phosphate. 



Clear zinc plating


Black Chromate bath
 
 



Edgemontvillage

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2020, 02:21:54 AM »
Working on the brake line clips; 5/16" green semi transparent

 

ZLP955

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2020, 04:33:26 AM »
Looks great Lloyd!
Tim in Australia.
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firstgenaddict

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2020, 05:33:51 AM »
Lloyd,
Where did you purchase your manganese phosphate?
I need some.
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

Edgemontvillage

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2020, 02:10:05 PM »
Hi James, I buy it from Scott Owens at Palmetto Enterprises. The last time I did he was selling on eBay only however I think he’s back to selling direct. During the period he was out of the business I tried Brownell’s manganese solution however wasn’t impressed.


KurtS

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2020, 08:55:20 PM »
https://www.palmettoenterprisesparkerizing.com/
He has both zinc phosphate and manganese phosphate.
What's the thoughts on the zinc phospate? Use where?
Kurt S
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Edgemontvillage

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2020, 11:35:52 PM »
https://www.palmettoenterprisesparkerizing.com/
He has both zinc phosphate and manganese phosphate.
What's the thoughts on the zinc phospate? Use where?

I use Palmetto's zinc solution as well with good results. On my 69Z project the only parts I have found that need zinc phosphating are the hood hinges (excluding the springs), the hood latch (also excluding the spring) UPC 11/13, B6 #1, and hood catch / receiver assembly UPC 11/13, B6 #3.  Nothing else - so far.

KurtS

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2020, 02:53:40 PM »
Thank you. That's exactly what I was looking for.
Kurt S
CRG

Edgemontvillage

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2020, 01:53:39 PM »
I've completed restoration of the clips for the 3/8" fuel line on my 69Z project, so for the sake of completeness I'm posting the end result for reference (front to back routing):

Engine Compartment: 2 blue (semi-transparent) 3/8" clips (closed loop)


Outside Right (front) Sub frame Rail: 2 blue (semi-transparent) 3/8" clips (closed loop)


Underbody against pinch weld seam: 1 black chromate 3/8" clip (hoop style)
Not photographed

Underbody, Front of Leaf Spring Bucket: 1 clear zinc plated clip with large end of clip facing front of car


Inside (rear) Frame Rail: 2 black chromate 3/8" clips (hoop style)



Top of (rear) Frame Rail: 1 manganese phosphated bracket secured with 1" non self tapping bolt




R68GTO

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2020, 10:33:47 AM »
Great pics Lloyd, thanks for posting.  Curious as to why you decided to change the front two clips from natural or clear zinc noted in your take-off pic early in the thread to the translucent blue at install?
1969 427 COPO Camaro Lemans Blue/Black, M22 4 speed, 15,500 original miles

firstgenaddict

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2020, 11:49:38 AM »
Great work Lloyd... beautiful!
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

luv2sixty9

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2020, 01:45:46 PM »
I like!
1967 Z/28 Butternut Yellow
1969 Z/28 Rally Green
1969 RS Z/28 Lemans Blue
1969 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold
1969 RS SS Pace Car
2010 Aqua Blue 2SS RS

Edgemontvillage

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2020, 01:56:37 PM »
Great pics Lloyd, thanks for posting.  Curious as to why you decided to change the front two clips from natural or clear zinc noted in your take-off pic early in the thread to the translucent blue at install?

Fair question. I did some further investigation and from other examples I was shown I concluded the front clips (engine compartment) were blue rather than non-colored. Engine heat cycles, the effects of oil as a solvent and environmental elements dissolved the color finish over time. 

Edgemontvillage

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2020, 01:57:24 PM »
Great work Lloyd... beautiful!

Thanks James - high praise indeed coming from you!

R68GTO

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Re: 1969 Z Fuel Line Clips, Hoses and Fasteners
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2020, 06:43:34 PM »
Great pics Lloyd, thanks for posting.  Curious as to why you decided to change the front two clips from natural or clear zinc noted in your take-off pic early in the thread to the translucent blue at install?

Fair question. I did some further investigation and from other examples I was shown I concluded the front clips (engine compartment) were blue rather than non-colored. Engine heat cycles, the effects of oil as a solvent and environmental elements dissolved the color finish over time.

Got it.....I re-installed mine as zinc to match what you had originally posted.  I'll just spray mine with translucent blue and re-install.  Thanks for clearing that up!
1969 427 COPO Camaro Lemans Blue/Black, M22 4 speed, 15,500 original miles