Author Topic: Painting details... (Read 10129 times)

firstgenaddict · « **on:** February 29, 2020, 02:13:44 PM »

Here are some photos of the RS COPO I am currently painting...

68camaroz28 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 29, 2020, 02:26:28 PM »

Hi James! Maybe my iPad but only see 5 squares? You always seem to have something neat going on.

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #2 on:** February 29, 2020, 05:03:13 PM »

anyone else having problems viewing the photos?

x66 714 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 29, 2020, 05:04:52 PM »

Looks fine to me. Pictures & painting.....Joe

68camaroz28 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 29, 2020, 05:19:44 PM »

LOL as now they appear! As always James looks great!

m22mike · « **Reply #5 on:** February 29, 2020, 06:29:16 PM »

Nice dash texture.

Mike

uscrichter · « **Reply #6 on:** March 02, 2020, 09:46:48 PM »

After just cleaning the original under carriage of Norwood built '69, I must say, that looks spot on! Nice job!

BULLITT65 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2020, 03:57:12 AM »

It looks good James. Was there a windshield/dash leak at one point? (looks like silicone in that area?)

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2020, 05:58:56 AM »

Charlie asked the same thing on Yenko...
No there is no silicone, it was stripped of all original seam sealer dustless glass blasted and then rolled around on the rotisserie with epoxy coming out of every where before seam sealing.
It's the stupid 2 part beige automix seam sealer...
I was talked into coming into the 2000's and hounded to stop using "old technology".

PROBLEM is it doesn't look like the original and it doesn't tool ANYWHERE CLOSE to how the original stuff tools.
I only left it there because it is better RE weather sealing, and because it is covered by trim. everwhere it's visible I removed it and went with 3m fast & firm beige....

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2020, 06:06:36 AM »

Shooting some tests for the asphalt heavy build sound deadener/undercoating...
Less pressure = thicker coating and more surface texture.

Drivers door skin was replaced with a NOS one in the early 70's but never sound deadened/undercoated

Inside the trunk on the quarters - sound deadener/undercoat

Inside the rear wheel wells

ZLP955 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2020, 06:38:42 AM »

Great paint overspray details. In the second photo, is the body plug in the trunk floor 'recess up', or 'recess down'?

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #11 on:** March 08, 2020, 05:59:07 AM »

Here are some more of the wheel houses/area. nice texture and avg build of 1/4-5/16"

BULLITT65 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 08, 2020, 06:32:58 PM »

Great pics James. Great detail, and an eye for it. How many guys have cars lined up trying to get into your shop?

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #13 on:** March 08, 2020, 08:32:29 PM »

I've got a waiting list which is already longer than I would like...
a 69 vette and two Z28's.

I was working in a much much smaller area for the previous 15 years (2 car garage with a set of pallet racks down one wall) This forced me to become VERY efficient, suddenly being spread out has cost me SO much time looking for tools and supplies in the last 6 months that I bought numerous tools AGAIN and doubled up on all kinds of thinners, catalysts, flatteners, etc -

FWIW Retrieving supplies and tools from where they belong is great, ONCE you know where they are located.

BULLITT65 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 08, 2020, 09:01:24 PM »

Well you look like you get a lot of satisfaction out of your work, and I think in time that shop will be ideal. WTG

ban617 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 22, 2020, 10:59:34 AM »

Nice work as always... What products are you using for the suede like a factory mix or custom ? Also are you using the 3m Shutz for the undercoating?

Thanks

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #16 on:** March 28, 2020, 06:42:23 PM »

The undercoating sound deadener is a custom mix concoction I went MAD SCIENTIST to figure out 10 years ago and it is sprayed out of an old applicator/GUN (which mixes internally) which I found in a storage room at our plant 10 years ago.
I came up with the undercoating mix a number of years ago when needing something which would build like the factory applied stuff - I was trying to blend together new and old on a survivor in which I sectioned in partial outer wheel houses.

BULLITT65 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 28, 2020, 07:30:45 PM »

The time and effort paid off James. You work looks spot on.

Sauron327 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 28, 2020, 08:55:10 PM »

Quote from: firstgenaddict on March 03, 2020, 05:58:56 AM

It's the stupid 2 part beige automix seam sealer...
I was talked into coming into the 2000's and hounded to stop using "old technology".

PROBLEM is it doesn't look like the original and it doesn't tool ANYWHERE CLOSE to how the original stuff tools.
I only left it there because it is better RE weather sealing, and because it is covered by trim. everwhere it's visible I removed it and went with 3m fast & firm beige....
-

SEM 1K seam sealer will tool correctly and leave brushstrokes like the original product. It can also be smoothed out with W&G remover. It's better than the outdated 3M Fast & Firm. The problem with some 2K sealers is they lay down smooth like your Automix picture. A higher viscosity 2K sealer will produce a better result. Some like 3M 1K Ultrapro but I've never tried it. 3M also makes a brushable seam sealer which is designed to leave tooling marks to replicate a factory appearance. I've used it. I apply sealer right before paint as most are paintable immediately. If it is out of the window then it has to be scuffed.

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #19 on:** March 28, 2020, 10:08:18 PM »

I keep hearing how fast and firm is outdated...
HOWEVER I cannot stand anything else I have tried and the 3M F&F actually looks like the stuff I dig out of the seams. Finding a different product at this point is not worth the time I have wasted in switching products and having to redo it.
I prefer 3M - Evercoat - Chroma products even at double a competitor's price, labor is WAY more than products so saving 50% on a product is not worth it if my labor increases by 15 minutes.

FWIW
Until 3M stops making Fast & Firm Beige I will not use ANYTHING ELSE -

Maybe If I were turning and burning insurance jobs for throughput or had worked in a shop which did insurance work I would have a different mindset however I have never price shopped paint supplies as the way I see it saving 5% -10% total on a job is not worth the potential headaches caused by ONE MINOR ISSUE, which will not only eat profits on that one job...it will eat the profits of 5 other jobs as well.

janobyte · « **Reply #20 on:** March 28, 2020, 10:54:56 PM »

Opinions obviously vary, but you just hit it spot on underneath. Doesn't looked "over worked". Orange is a color that just works under there. Ashgold would have looked like some kind of mess.(mine,lol) I'm one who's tipping my hat to your work.

Had a buddy in the AirForce from your neck of the woods, his dad had a beautiful pearl 55 chevy pu. This was in the mid 80's. Some nice machines were rolling around. Lots of talent down there. Also visited an early Impala grave yard.

Sauron327 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 29, 2020, 12:02:30 AM »

James, I've been dedicated to classic work for the past 15 years but was in the collision industry also. I'm no longer banging out collision work, nor will i bash it. I've been involved in the business since 1984, bought my first '68 in 1982 and rebuilt it on a dirt driveway. I acquire knowledge from many, including those in collision and classic car restoration. I call my reps to try new products and sprayguns, which they will do on the house. Also ask other pros for updates, and speak to numerous people in the business for product info and performance; which opens entirely new business opportunities.

Collision industry has changed dramatically. High strength steels have come into play. Welding and panel adhesive applications must be correct. I-CAR standards must be met. This is not like the 70's and 80's.

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #22 on:** May 10, 2020, 05:53:48 PM »

Some shots of the body, in the booth and then some after the first pass with the polisher on the door and quarter...

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #23 on:** May 16, 2020, 01:30:00 PM »

Polishing out the paint... I love flat paint and reflections.

chevyzl1 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 20, 2020, 04:14:27 AM »

waooooh

wonderful works.

x77-69z28 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 20, 2020, 01:59:16 PM »

Keep up the great work James!

Buddy

BULLITT65 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 20, 2020, 02:15:38 PM »

Sorry for the dumb question, but does anyone shoot lacquer now a days or is everything with current urethane enamel, or waterborne?
I ask because if a guy has a lacquer original paint car, are there guys that shoot lacquer and are able to blend it in, or is that a huge can of worms?

bcmiller · « **Reply #27 on:** May 20, 2020, 08:07:24 PM »

Quote from: Sauron327 on March 28, 2020, 08:55:10 PM

Quote from: firstgenaddict on March 03, 2020, 05:58:56 AM

It's the stupid 2 part beige automix seam sealer...
I was talked into coming into the 2000's and hounded to stop using "old technology".

PROBLEM is it doesn't look like the original and it doesn't tool ANYWHERE CLOSE to how the original stuff tools.
I only left it there because it is better RE weather sealing, and because it is covered by trim. everwhere it's visible I removed it and went with 3m fast & firm beige....
-

SEM 1K seam sealer will tool correctly and leave brushstrokes like the original product. It can also be smoothed out with W&G remover. It's better than the outdated 3M Fast & Firm. The problem with some 2K sealers is they lay down smooth like your Automix picture. A higher viscosity 2K sealer will produce a better result. Some like 3M 1K Ultrapro but I've never tried it. 3M also makes a brushable seam sealer which is designed to leave tooling marks to replicate a factory appearance. I've used it. I apply sealer right before paint as most are paintable immediately. If it is out of the window then it has to be scuffed.

I used the brushable 3M seamsealer on my Chevelle and it looked great.

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #28 on:** May 22, 2020, 02:26:52 AM »

Quote from: BULLITT65 on May 20, 2020, 02:15:38 PM

Sorry for the dumb question, but does anyone shoot lacquer now a days or is everything with current urethane enamel, or waterborne?
I ask because if a guy has a lacquer original paint car, are there guys that shoot lacquer and are able to blend it in, or is that a huge can of worms?

I still shoot an entire car in lacquer if someone wants it and will touch and blend lacquer all day long...

HOWEVER...
For NCRS judged cars I and many others replicate the look of lacquer with BC CC.
To replicate lacquer there are a number of things which must be done including adding 15-20% flattener to the clear coat - I
I send off samples to the national NCRS paint judges and have the sprayouts approved for color, metallic content, as well as application and surface texture. Typically there are at least 2 sets of samples sent off... in order to minimize the number of fedex's I usually scan an original sample or use the corresponding year's dealer album and scan the large sample... if it is metallic - reduce the metallic content by 20-30% and spray out samples.

BULLITT65 · « **Reply #29 on:** May 22, 2020, 03:02:46 AM »

Good info. I wasn't sure on availability of materials for lacquer, or how often it was still used. Are cars judged the same by NCRS regardless of material, just how they present?

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #30 on:** May 22, 2020, 11:57:42 AM »

Quote from: BULLITT65 on May 22, 2020, 03:02:46 AM

Good info. I wasn't sure on availability of materials for lacquer, or how often it was still used. Are cars judged the same by NCRS regardless of material, just how they present?

If they can't tell it's not lacquer then no deduct.

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #31 on:** May 22, 2020, 12:08:09 PM »

Single stage non-metallic colors can be simulated as lacquer with significant extra work, but BC cannot (IMO).. just take a little compound or polish and TRY to pull color off a BC job... it won't happen...

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #32 on:** May 22, 2020, 12:41:31 PM »

Quote from: 69Z28-RS on May 22, 2020, 12:08:09 PM

Single stage non-metallic colors can be simulated as lacquer with significant extra work, but BC cannot (IMO).. just take a little compound or polish and TRY to pull color off a BC job... it won't happen...

You cannot use any method which would require you to touch a car as a judge during a NCRS show...
Even if you put a business card to the paint there is no gap in the reflection with one sanded and polished coat of PURE CLEAR with 10-15% flattener.
BC/CC will pass by the national NCRS paint judges as lacquer when done in this fashion.

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #33 on:** May 22, 2020, 01:57:24 PM »

I haven't been involved with NCRS judging in more than 20 yrs, but they 'used to' pull color on a car with suspect paint (perhaps surreptiously?

I'm sure requirements for 'original type paint' are going away (if not already gone) as availability of lacquer is essentially a thing of the past... The Camaro Judging basically discounted 'paint type' in their judging even 10 yrs or so ago; today they might even do a deduct if a car doesn't have the 'glossy/plastic-appearing' finish of a base clear job!

PS. James, I applaud your efforts to 'simulate' lacquer type finish even with base/clear paints! I'd love to see one of those jobs to determine if I could tell..

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #34 on:** May 22, 2020, 02:51:17 PM »

Quote from: 69Z28-RS on May 22, 2020, 01:57:24 PM

I haven't been involved with NCRS judging in more than 20 yrs, but they 'used to' pull color on a car with suspect paint (perhaps surreptiously?

I'm sure requirements for 'original type paint' are going away (if not already gone) as availability of lacquer is essentially a thing of the past... The Camaro Judging basically discounted 'paint type' in their judging even 10 yrs or so ago; today they might even do a deduct if a car doesn't have the 'glossy/plastic-appearing' finish of a base clear job!

PS. James, I applaud your efforts to 'simulate' lacquer type finish even with base/clear paints! I'd love to see one of those jobs to determine if I could tell..

Shoot me a PM with your mailing address and I will send you a spray out sample from the Warbonnet Yellow Vette pictured below, I would love to hear more input.

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #35 on:** June 18, 2020, 02:11:09 AM »

Polishing polishing polishing...
FWIW I use a Cyclo Orbital polisher (Boeing has used them since the 50's for polishing aircraft such as AF1) with TWIN counter rotating Orbital heads and a Geared Orbital Makita, I don't like using rotary polishers as I feel they are way too aggressive.

The geared orbital is an incredible polisher

cook_dw · « **Reply #36 on:** June 18, 2020, 03:34:17 PM »

Those cyclone orbitals are the bees knees.. I will eventually need to get one.

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #37 on:** June 19, 2020, 03:12:35 PM »

Cyclo orbitals come up on ebay occasionally for under $200, I was fortunate I found mine on the local craigslist for $120, best thing about cyclo's is EVERY single part is available from the manufacturer (Denver CO) to service the machine.
They are available in 110, 220, European elect, and Pneumatic - I have wool bonnets as well as foam pads, brushes for cleaning carpet and they also make up to 9000 grit papers for polishing PLEXIGLASS and LEXAN airplane windows.

cook_dw · « **Reply #38 on:** June 19, 2020, 04:03:07 PM »

Damn autocorrect. Cyclo not cyclone.

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Author Topic: Painting details... (Read 10129 times)