Author Topic: Original Color?  (Read 8805 times)

Tom@LAMdeck.com

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Original Color?
« on: January 28, 2020, 10:07:01 PM »
I am looking at purchasing a fully restored all original numbers matching everything 1969 Camaro Z28. The biggest issue I have found so far is the color. The car is currently Black and the original build color was Garnet Red. My questions is, "How much does this hurt the value of the car"? I personally like the black, but it is not original. And when doing sales comparisons, I assume most fully restored high end cars are restored to their original build color. Am I wrong? Am I being over picky? Any advise would help.
Thanks
LAMdeck

Z282NV

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2020, 10:38:54 PM »
You are not wrong in your thought process, color change can affect the price. However, if you like black and the paint is done well then I would use the color change as a bargaining chip and get them to knock off a few dollars, if not walk away. No harm no fowl.

If you think the color change will bother you over time and you think others may pick up on that by looking at the trim tag then wait until you find exactly what you are looking for.

Joe
69 Camaro

bcmiller

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2020, 12:12:27 AM »
Color change would not bother me if the paint is good.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

67conv6cyl

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2020, 01:23:47 AM »
I always would rather have the original color...even if it’s not a color that I really like. 
However I have a hard time even using a non original nut that you can’t even see when car is together!

ZLP955

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2020, 02:28:16 AM »
You've probably already done your homework, but well worth getting the car professionally appraised by an expert familiar with the Z/28 as they are amongst the most widely faked classic cars out there.
Tim in Australia.
1969 04A Van Nuys Z/28. Cortez Silver, Dark Blue interior, VE3, Z21, Z23, D55/U17, D80, flat hood.
Sold at Clippinger Chevrolet in Covina, CA.
AHRA Formula Stock at Lions Dragstrip, NHRA E/MP at Pomona Raceway

KurtS

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2020, 03:51:08 AM »
Generally, it hurts value, esp since the original color was not considered 'bad'. 

Please have it confirmed that it's all original. Lots make that claim, lots shouldn't.
Kurt S
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69Z28-RS

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2020, 03:54:05 AM »
The car is Not *restored* (meaning restored to original condition) if the colors/etc do not match what was done at the factory...
The paint is 'modified/customized'... take your pick of the terms.
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
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bcmiller

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2020, 04:06:58 AM »
“Meanings of the word restoration can be many and varied.”

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-1011-levels-of-car-restoration/
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

69Z28-RS

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2020, 04:31:23 AM »
The word 'Restored' means 'taken back to a prior condition.    Original Restored, or Restored to Original condition (in car terms) generally means restored to the condition in which is left the factory.

If you are using the word 'restored' to mean something different, then please inform us as to what 'condition' it is 'restored' to...
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

ko-lek-tor

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2020, 12:13:28 PM »
I always would rather have the original color...even if it’s not a color that I really like. 
However I have a hard time even using a non original nut that you can’t even see when car is together!

I’d like a paternity test, please? My same OCD problem, which people like us don’t see as a problem other than the world is outta step with ours. Lol.
Bentley to friends :1969 SS/RS 396 owned 79
1969 SS 350 (sold)
1969 D.H.COPO replica 4spd. owned since 85
1967 302 4 spd 5.13

bcmiller

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2020, 01:19:29 PM »
The word 'Restored' means 'taken back to a prior condition.    Original Restored, or Restored to Original condition (in car terms) generally means restored to the condition in which is left the factory.

If you are using the word 'restored' to mean something different, then please inform us as to what 'condition' it is 'restored' to...

Thought we had turned the corner Gary.

Read the link. Your opinion isn’t the only one that matters. Peace.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

Tom@LAMdeck.com

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2020, 02:35:46 PM »
Thank you all very much. All of these comments are helpful. Next question...Who is the most respected inspection company? Who should I hire to inspect and give me a report or certificate to validate it is a true and correct Z28? I did send off for the original dealer information and I know the car was originally delivered to Danny Shultz Chevrolet in Lenoir, TN.

cook_dw

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2020, 03:02:18 PM »
The car is Not *restored* (meaning restored to original condition) if the colors/etc do not match what was done at the factory...
The paint is 'modified/customized'... take your pick of the terms.

“Meanings of the word restoration can be many and varied.”

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-1011-levels-of-car-restoration/

The word 'Restored' means 'taken back to a prior condition.    Original Restored, or Restored to Original condition (in car terms) generally means restored to the condition in which is left the factory.

If you are using the word 'restored' to mean something different, then please inform us as to what 'condition' it is 'restored' to...


The word 'Restored' means 'taken back to a prior condition.    Original Restored, or Restored to Original condition (in car terms) generally means restored to the condition in which is left the factory.

If you are using the word 'restored' to mean something different, then please inform us as to what 'condition' it is 'restored' to...

Thought we had turned the corner Gary.

Read the link. Your opinion isn’t the only one that matters. Peace.



bertfam

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2020, 03:06:29 PM »
Quote
Thank you all very much. All of these comments are helpful. Next question...Who is the most respected inspection company? Who should I hire to inspect and give me a report or certificate to validate it is a true and correct Z28?

Tom, Jerry MacNeish is, by far, THE foremost authority on these cars and he can be contacted via his website, CAMARO HI-PERFORMANCE.

In the meantime email me the VIN, a picture of the trim tag and a picture of the engine suffix stamped on the block as we may already have the car in the database. If we do, we may be able to verify what it is. (My email address is in my signature below)

NOTE: If the pad is painted over, see if you can get the owners permission to remove the paint. If the seller says it's okay, use paint remover, NOT sandpaper or any other medium that will scratch the pad. We don't want to ruin the factory "broach marks" machined in the pad.

Ed

rich69rs

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2020, 05:06:16 PM »
The car is Not *restored* (meaning restored to original condition) if the colors/etc do not match what was done at the factory...

I don’t agree that restored has to automatically mean to original condition.  IMHO, my car is fully restored (refer to my avatar) but it is no longer Dover White with a dark blue vinyl top (and hasn’t been since sometime back in the ‘80’s) 

When I bought the car in Nov 1991, the color had already been changed.  When I took it down to bare metal in Sep 2013, and after multiple steps of primer/sealer and sanding, it was finished (restored) in Glacier Blue.

Richard
Richard Thomas
1969 RS

69Z28-RS

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2020, 10:26:28 PM »
What does being restored mean?   : to give back (someone or something that was lost or taken) : to return (someone or something) : to put or bring (something) back into existence or use. : to return (something) to an earlier or original condition by repairing it, cleaning it, etc.

No one that has disagreed with the definition of 'Restored' being to 'Restore to factory original condition' has offered an alternative 'condition it was restored to', nor any references.   The definition I provided 'restored to factory original condition' was based on having judged 'original restored' classes in 3 different organizations, at regional, national, and international levels.

Here is a reference to a Hemmings article defining differences between 'Restoration' and 'Refurbishment'.
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/article/restoration-vs-refurbishment/

Hemmings states that:    In simple terms, a restored car is an automobile that has been rebuilt exactly the way its manufacturer first assembled it at the factory. ... Rebuilding a car's mechanical systems, be it the engine, transmission or suspension, doesn't mean that car has been restored either.

If you are one that believes 'your opinion' of what Restoration means is important, then read the above reference to learn of possible legal complications of such an opinion.
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

ZLP955

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2020, 10:59:49 PM »
Getting picky. I'm out.
Tim in Australia.
1969 04A Van Nuys Z/28. Cortez Silver, Dark Blue interior, VE3, Z21, Z23, D55/U17, D80, flat hood.
Sold at Clippinger Chevrolet in Covina, CA.
AHRA Formula Stock at Lions Dragstrip, NHRA E/MP at Pomona Raceway

cook_dw

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2020, 01:18:11 AM »
No shit.  Remember this is suppose to be a hobby and fun.  Opinions are like b-holes and most of them stink.

KurtS

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2020, 04:18:05 AM »
Gotta agree. Switch off the lecture mode Gary. Posting more = yelling louder doesn't make you righter.
Kurt S
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HOT3O2

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2020, 03:26:38 PM »
With that definition I would say that there wouldn’t be any car that could clam “Restored”.  There is no car out there Rebuild “Exactly” the way it’s manufacturer first assembled it at the factory.
Rick
69 RS/Z28

crossboss

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2020, 01:21:29 AM »
Boys,
My worthless two cents…
As they say "Its original only once". That said, any collector car re-pained back to its original color is worth more. Lastly, I do agree, if the color change is very nice and to your liking, buy it and have fun!
Just another T/A fanatic. Current lifelong projects:
1968 Olds 442 W-30
1969 Mustang Fastback w a Can-Am 494 (Boss 429)

HOT3O2

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2020, 01:33:30 AM »
What about a car that was a “Special Paint” (- -)? Would a color change affect it’s value?
Rick
69 RS/Z28

KurtS

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2020, 02:53:13 AM »
Some people think that it gives them license to go with any color.
I think you gotta go with the original color. Generally, I wouldn't buy a special paint that someone changed the color. But all you need to do is find one person..... Might be hard for them to resell it. :)
Kurt S
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rare396bronze

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2020, 03:36:42 AM »
I have a -1 stripe delete car that was a factory corvette bronze Camaro. Everybody wanted me to change the car to black. I put it back corvette bronze and glad I did. Not a fan off color changes.

Fred Mertz

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2020, 04:59:42 AM »
Had my 69 been the original color in '05 I would not have bought.  The original color was Burnished Brown w/white stripes and white interior. When I bought it in '05 it had been painted white w/black stripes, with black interior.  December '19 it became Lemans Blue w/ white stripes and back to white interior. I pulled the original motor and set it aside, replacing it with a GMPP 383/425hp crate motor.  I think I'm done for while.

cook_dw

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2020, 12:48:19 PM »
Burnish Brown and white guts would have been a pretty combo.

x66 714

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2020, 02:16:47 PM »
Burnish Brown and white guts would have been a pretty combo.
What he said. I would love to own a Burnish brown Camaro....Joe
See America's First, Chevrolet

1968 Z/28 Corvette Bronze. Black Hounds Tooth. 02E Los Angeles born 3/13/1968 pnt OO. Purchased March 1976
1969 SS396 Yellow/Yellow 08E Norwood born 8/28/1969 pnt 76E. Purchased April 1981

x77-69z28

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2020, 03:15:27 PM »
My Burnished Brown car was Daytona Yellow when I bought it in ‘78. It was a nice paint job, but I just couldn’t get past the fact the the color was changed. BB was NoT a popular thing in The late 70’s. It was a lot of work, but glad I put it back to orig. I get a lot of comments when it comes out.
69 Z/28 X77 burnished brown, 711 int 05A bought in 78
70 Z28 forrest green, green int, M40, bk vinyl roof PROJECT
99 SS hugger orange 6spd NO TTOPS bought new 1 of 54
15 z/28 Arctic white, A/C 505 HP #251

KurtS

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2020, 05:29:26 PM »
I get a lot of comments when it comes out.
And some of that is because it's not another red or black Camaro. :)
Kurt S
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lynnbilodeau

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2020, 12:56:50 AM »
Frankly, one of the reasons I enjoy coming here to discuss all things first gen is that the threads rarely take ugly turns, as this one did.

Defining "restored" has little to do with the OP's question.  It is a valid topic of conversation; just not for this thread.

The OP asked a simple question:  does the color change affect value?

Yes it does.   Different amounts to different people, but the color change will automatically preclude a certain percentage of potential buyers of a "numbers" car.  I  went through this a while back helping a friend sell his original drivetrain Z/28 that went from FG with DG interior to Dusk Blue with black interior.   He still got a very good price for it, but a lot of guys were not even interested once they learned of the color change.

If the seller is willing to wait for that buyer who does not care about the color change, he or she will likely get ALMOST as much as if it were an original color.

At least the OP was advised to get the thing checked out.  I would go one further:  post clear pics of the tag, and all the stampings.   If they are obviously bogus, then the OP saves a boat load of money on the personal inspection by Jerry M.   If they look good, then go for the full inspection.  One can't be too careful.  I would guess about 1/2 of the 69 Z/28s advertised, are not what they are represented to be.

BULLITT65

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Re: Original Color?
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2020, 07:59:23 PM »
I would agree with Lynn, and say you may save your self some time and money posting the stampings here first. MANY cars stampings have been posted on here, and it is a quick way to figure out wether to proceed or look at another car.
For your current dilemma,  I think the thing that I would try to focus on, is what is the end game for this car?
Are you eventually going to want to go back to the original color, and would you be happy with that color?
You are the one that has to be content with it. So if it is going to be something where you feel you would repaint it, be upside down on it (paint is the most expensive thing to change these days) and then end up selling it for a color you do want.
Just think it through, is my point.
Good luck in your search  :)
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

 

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