Author Topic: rebuilding engine  (Read 32297 times)

dab67

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rebuilding engine
« on: March 19, 2007, 10:21:51 AM »
Just found out that I have a bearing going bad on my 350. :( So I am going to have the engine rebuilt. Need opinions here, I want to put in a different cam, but keep as much as possible of everything else stock. It was suggested, by the Company rebuilding the engine that since I don't want to change to much of anything else on the engine that a 350/350hp cam would probably be the best way to go. Rebuild the heads with new springs , seals to handle the unleaded fuel etc. etc.  Any ideas or suggestion? Want to keep it a cruiser and not a bruiser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 350 4 barrel, headers. Would it be a good idea to change the carb or just rebuilt that also? Q-Jet on it now. I was going to rebuild next year but after running some tests and checking oil pressures cold and hot have to do it a year early.

dab67

sam

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2007, 12:17:41 PM »
I like the 350/350 cam. You can buy a spec cam from a cam manufacturer Crane, Comp, etc. The Q-jet in my opinion is a good choice. You can re-jet them and do little performance enhancements to them. They hardly ever leak from sitting. Have Jerry M. set up the original distributor for you also. Sounds real dependable to me and will run good. Take care of the little things and the bigger things take care of themselves.

dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2007, 12:51:52 PM »
Sam:
Thanks for the input, wasn't sure what to do regarding the carb, I want to keep as much as possible original to what I bought, not to say the engine is numbers matching to the car. The company doing the work also recommended doing something to the Distributor so I will let them handle that. Since I have to drop the tranny (powwerglide) with the engine, I am going to have all the seals changed. I have a leak when the car sets after driving. They think is may be the seal on the dipstick or the seal(s) around the linkage that are causing this.But will have all of them replaced.

Dave

sam

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2007, 01:04:13 PM »
Dave, I would just go through everything at this point. While everything is out of the car do it once. I think you are on the right track. Do as much as your wallet allows. ;D Just make sure your engine guy can rebuild your carb and distributor correctly. Its the little things.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 01:05:44 PM by sam »

dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2007, 01:31:22 PM »
Sam:

The company is well known in the Southeastern part of Wisconsin for building High performance engines and comes highly recommended by quite a few of the people I had talked with. They gave me an option of replacing or rebuilding the carb. Based on the pocket book, I'll wait and see.

I'll keep you posted on the route I take.

Thanks again!!

Dave

sam

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2007, 01:39:52 PM »
Sounds like a plan Dave.  Sam ;D

lakeholme

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2007, 02:04:50 PM »
Dave,

Hate to hear about the bearing.  That's the "excuse" for getting other things done.  (Had to do that on another car.  Let me change what I wanted to change and bring back to original what I wanted original.) Keep us posted on your work.

Phillip
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dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2007, 04:01:42 PM »
Phillip:

I wish it was an "excuse: Ha! Unfortunately it isn't. I was planning on doing it next year just to do it and replace at that time what needed to be replaced. But with this happening now, going to do it all. The winter projects of changing the dash harness, cleaning up the engine bay, changing the brakes and some general items were all accomplished. The only real major project was going to be the tranny and that will also be taken care of at this time. Which should leave nothing left to do next year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HOPEFULLY!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm just glad this problem reared it's ugly head now and not during the summer months.

Dave

dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2007, 04:09:02 PM »
Phillip:

What is your opinion on a different cam? As I stated, want to keep it a cruiser. Want to keep it as original as possilbe but give it a little more pep!~!!! 8)

Dave

lakeholme

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2007, 07:08:24 PM »
Dave,

I agree with Sam (which is the reason I didn't add anything above).  Knowing what you've said about your car (cruiser, et. al.), the 350/350 would be a good choice. One of these days, I'll replace my motor (which is not matching, and I know the original was lost in a scrape pile in Florida a long time ago).  But I'm waiting myself, because the 327/4 barrell I have is a great cruising setup for a powerglide car.

I also noticed on another one of your posts that you are starting to get answers to the issue of transmission and speedometer irregularities.  Let me (us) know how that all plays out.

Phillip
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dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2007, 09:29:33 PM »
Phillip:

Definetly will keep you posted regarding the gearing. Hopefully while the engine is being rebuilt the company will be able to answer the reason behind the speedometer reading against  actual speed. I can't believe the gearing from 3:08 to 2:73 would make this change. Especially since both ratios use the same speedo gear in the tranny. It has to be something else, and hopefully when they pull the engine and tranny they see something that doesn't belong or is different on the powerglide or engine that would cause this difference.

Dave

dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2007, 11:22:08 AM »
Update; Got the engine out and finally got some numbers off the block. Casting number 3970010, casting date, this is how it reads not sure what it means 2x208, 20th day of 68 or 78? Now I know the 0010 was used in 69 on the Camaro for 302,327 and 350. And I also know that it was used from 69-79 as a 350 through out GM car and truck lines. But was it ever used in 68 as a 327? I have looked at 3 sites, Mortec, nastyz28 and cehighperformace and they all list it available at different times. Cehighperformance even lists it as early as 67 as a 350 used in trucks. So any clue what my engine may have come out of originally?

dab67

JohnZ

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2007, 03:17:17 PM »
I've never seen a casting date format like that - is it about six inches toward the passenger side from the distributor on the rear flange of the block? It should be like the photo below, with a letter for the month, one or two number digits for the day, and one (Flint) or two (Tonawanda) digits for the year. The 010 block wasn't produced until April, 1969, so it wouldn't have been used for a '68.

What's stamped on the front pad? That will tell what it came out of.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 03:18:59 PM by JohnZ »
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dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2007, 03:29:33 PM »
John:

The number I recorded was in that general area. When I get back to the shop where it is being rebuilt if I can get another look at it I will. I wonder if is is actually  2K208,,, would lhat be more like November 20 68 or 78? I have to be interpreting the other sites wrong. cehighperformance (trucks) list 5 different casting numbers used during the period of 67-79, which I figured out that is what was used during the whole period and not just a specific year. But Nastyz28 list it all alone for a 68 327.Got to be an error on their part. I thought i was only available beginning in 69 but had to ask!!!!!!
The front pad has V06022TDB, which I believe is a 350 used in a truck.
Thanks again John!

Dave


1968RSZ28

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2007, 06:02:04 PM »
Dave -

I just Googled TDB and was directed to nastyz28.com.  There they list engine suffix code TDB as a 1972 307 cid small block V8 for the C-10 & C-20 trucks.  The engine assembly date on the front pad of 06022 would then make sense: June 2, 1972.  They also list code TDB as being used in 1980 (no engine size listed) on the C-10 & 1500 trucks, but then your engine assembly date doesn't fit.  Once you double check the casting date on the block we will know more.

Paul

dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2007, 06:53:12 PM »
Paul:

I saw that also. There is no mistaking the casting numbers of 3970010 on the block. That is why I questioned the date that this block was available. No where can I find the 0010 being used on the 307. There is also a blank line on nastyz28 that shows the TDB code but no reference to the type of engine. Could I have an Albatross here!!!!!! Or how about a experimental block 8)
As usual, I am making humor of my own inexperience in these matters.

If I can, tongiht I will try and get a picture of both the casting block number and the casting date. and the front pad.

Dave

1968RSZ28

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2007, 08:09:49 PM »
Dave -

Could the casting number on the block be 3970020?  This is one of the casting numbers listed for the 1969-73 307 cid engine.  Then the engine suffix code would make sense.

Paul

dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2007, 10:50:50 PM »
Paul and JohnZ:

How about this?

dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2007, 10:54:14 PM »
Paul and JohnZ:

Here are the other two. The casting date is F208 not 2X208 now clue where they got that. The front pad I thought we got a good picture but the brightness of the paint did not allow the numbers to show. The suffix codes numbers are as stated before V0622TDB the Partial Vin is
T8E738987.

Dave

dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2007, 11:22:55 PM »
Paul and JohnZ:

A couple other numbers, I didn't take picture, don't know why but the numbers on the heads(camel hump no accessory holes) are 3890462 casting dates of B046 and B086  Feb. 4th and 8th of 66.
The intake number I believe I mentioned in another thread 3919803- 68 327 275hp or 325hp, 68 350 295 hp.
It appears I have a Heinz 57 engine!!!!!!!!!

Dave

1968RSZ28

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2007, 02:07:58 AM »
Dave -

Based on your new info you have a 1978 350 cid Chevrolet block cast on June 20, 1978.  The engine was assembled at the Flint engine plant on June 22, 1978.  For what model I don't know,  the TDB engine suffix code doesn't show up anywhere for 1978.  Anybody else know?  Dave, can you clean (remove the paint) from the engine pad and recheck the numbers/letters?  This might "clear" things up.  Also, I can make out only two of your photos.

Paul  

dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2007, 09:50:39 AM »
Paul:

I figure the casting date photo and the front pad are the two you are referring to. the casting date is definetly F208 and the front pad we tried 6 different shots and could not get a good picture because of the paint being so bright that is why I wrote them down and presented them.

Dave

lakeholme

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2007, 05:09:36 PM »
Dave,
Have you decided about your cam and carb, yet?
Are you staying with your powerglide?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2007, 05:12:36 PM by lakeholme »
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dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2007, 05:42:25 PM »
Hi Phillip:

Cam is going to be the 350/350 and the carb is going to be my stock Q-jet rebuilt. Or should i call it the carb that is on my engine!! I sure can not call it numbers matching or even date correct I bet!  :D

Anyways, it will be a nice running motor by the time it is put all back together and the great thing about it is, they are going to install a dustcover for the flywheel! At least they say they are going to. They insist there are two different sizes dustcovers because there are two different size flywheels. I'll cross my fingers and hope for the best! But it sure would be nice to have it!!!!!!!! Also they are going to replace all the seals in regards to the tranny( dipstick, linkage, pump seal and whatever else) so I will not have to worry about that except for the cost of the seals. He is including the labor with the rebuild.

Should be done in about 2 more weeks. Just in time for the first cruise weekend in Kenosha!!!!!!! I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for asking!!!!!

Dave

JohnZ

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2007, 06:54:37 PM »
"TDB" is a 350/175hp 4-barrel automatic truck engine; your block was cast on June 20, assembled on June 22, and came out of a 1978 GMC pickup built at the Pontiac Truck Assembly Center. The heads and intake are from '66 and '68.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2007, 06:56:41 PM by JohnZ »
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dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2007, 07:20:06 PM »
JohnZ:

Thanks for the confirmation regarding the engine usage. I was pretty sure of the dates of the heads and manifold. Now I have one other question. During the rebuild should I have the front pad numbers removed in the decking and left blank or should I just leave it alone? What is the common practice if there is a common practice for non-matching number engine blocks that are rebuilt.
Any opinion on that?

Thanks

Dave

1968RSZ28

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2007, 07:58:40 PM »
John -

Where did you find the info for the "TDB" engine suffix code?  Thanks in advance.

Paul

JohnZ

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2007, 03:57:26 PM »
JohnZ:

Thanks for the confirmation regarding the engine usage. I was pretty sure of the dates of the heads and manifold. Now I have one other question. During the rebuild should I have the front pad numbers removed in the decking and left blank or should I just leave it alone? What is the common practice if there is a common practice for non-matching number engine blocks that are rebuilt.
Any opinion on that?

Thanks

Dave

If decking is found to be necessary, it'll wipe out the numbers on the pad; very few shops have the 2-axis mill necessary to deck the block and save the pad numbers. Since the pad stamps aren't correct anyway, you could just leave it blank if you have it decked.
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JohnZ

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2007, 03:58:51 PM »
John -

Where did you find the info for the "TDB" engine suffix code?  Thanks in advance.

Paul

About 40 years' worth of GM references and my own notes from many sources. :)
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dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2007, 05:51:38 PM »
JohnZ:

Thanks for the opinion John, if it happens it happens, if not I won't worry about it.

Dave

lakeholme

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2007, 08:34:01 PM »
Dave and Paul,

Both NastyZ28 and Chevy-Camaro sites list the TDB engine code, but John actually gave more information than either one of them.

Actually, Dave, lots of "shade tree restorers" use truck motors.  They are generally reliable.
A few years ago, I restored a similar motor in my truck.  I "abuse" that truck all the time, and it still runs like a scalded dog.  For a cruiser, it's probably fine!
« Last Edit: March 30, 2007, 08:40:49 PM by lakeholme »
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dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2007, 04:16:30 PM »
Phillip:

From what the company tells me that is rebuilding the engine I have a great fountation for a nice strong engine with the 0010 block, 0462 heads and the manifold. Adding the cam will enhance all of these. Can ya tell I'm a little bit excited!

Dave

JohnZ

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2007, 04:31:17 PM »
Actually, Dave, lots of "shade tree restorers" use truck motors.  They are generally reliable.

There's no difference between a "truck engine" and a "car engine" in terms of the block - they all use the same block casting; the items that make it a "truck engine" are all bolt-on parts. When raw blocks were machined, nobody knew what they were going into - the differences weren't made until they went down the engine assembly line and were configured for a specific application.
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william

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2007, 07:54:35 PM »
The 350/350 cam is a poor choice for an automatic.
Learning more and more about less and less...

dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2007, 08:13:55 PM »
William:

Why do you say the cam is a poor choice?

Dave

lakeholme

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2007, 12:23:48 AM »
Well, once again, John is right!  I should have said, "motors out of trucks", because that's the reference I meant to make.  As in "someone found a wrecked truck with a good motor and put it in their car..."

Is the 350/350 too much for a powerglide?

Anyway, Dave, glad you are excited.  Keep us posted!
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JohnZ

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2007, 07:59:49 PM »
William:

Why do you say the cam is a poor choice?

Dave

That 350/350hp cam was used in the Corvette with L-82 from '73-'80 with an automatic, but the Corvette used a 3-speed automatic, with a much deeper first gear than the Powerglide; Powerglides want plenty of low-end torque for lively acceleration in 1st, and the so-called "300hp cam" (the stock "929" cam) is a much better choice for a Powerglide-equipped car for normal street operation with a stock converter and axle.
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dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2007, 11:58:19 PM »
JohnZ and William:

Ok thanks for the info!!!!!!! I will contact the company rebuilding my car and hopefully they haven't ordered anything yet.I want to put in the car what will be the best combination taking into consideration all three factors: engine.tranny and rearend.

Dave

dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2007, 08:05:48 PM »
OK, talked with the people rebuilding my engine. They figured out what would be best fo my car based on what I told them I wanted and also taking into consideration what my tranny and rear end gearing was. As a matter of fact they left me a voice message this morning at work to call them so we could discuss. They are still putting in a cam the will increase horsepower something similiar to the 300hp cam and not the 350hp. And they recommend I drive it for a year, get the feel for it and possibly change either the rear gear next year to something in the lines of a 3:56 and or change out the tranny to a TH350. As always I believe JohnZ mentioned something about a 3 spd auto!!!!!!!!!!!! And maybe that is what William was referring to. Anyways, that is what I am going to do. Drive it, evaluate it and then decide if I want to change anything else.

Dave

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2007, 07:00:15 PM »
I beleive a 2004r is a bolt in swap, and gives you a 4 speed overdrive with a locking converter. Should also allow you to go back to original with ease.

Tom
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dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2007, 07:07:40 PM »
Tom:

Thanks for the input and info. I'll  keep all these suggestions and comments on file.

Dave

dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2007, 11:58:16 PM »
It's back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D Finally got my car back after a longer than expected rebuild. But it was well worth it. In just the little time I drove the car with the different cam, Edelbrock 2102, you can tell the difference in power and performance. Can't wait to have the break in period, 500 miles completed to see how it will run out on the open road at a constant speed for a couple of hours. Changing the oil in 200 miles and then again in 500 miles. No longer than 40 minutes at one time at the the same speed. At idle when warmed up, it has just enough "attitude" to make it sound really nice. Unfortuantely one little problem yet, the ring around the torque converter still leaks a bit, so I guess this winter I will still have to pull the tranny and have it replaced, they replaced all the other seals and this is the only place that they see a slight leak at.  They said when the car sets for long periods of time, like 3-4 weeks the torque converter will empty the tranny fluid back into the pan and when it reaches a certain level, it begins to leak around this rubber seal that is probably harder than when original and this is causing the leak.They also suggested that I change the stainless steel tranny lines back to aluminum to get a better seal at the connectors. Anyways, can't wait to get going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lakeholme

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2007, 12:38:34 AM »
Congratulations, Dave!
Did they give you any info, like what HP you're running now?  Above you said about 300 hp.
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dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2007, 09:49:27 AM »
Phillip:

The HP is right around 325 to 330. After the break-in period they are going to "dyno" it and give me the RWHP. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that is going to be around 270-290? Which is more than enough for this "old man"
Oh yea one more thing,,,,,,,,,,,,, NO flexplate cover!!!!!! they could not find one. Evened order one from one of the first gen warehouses and it did not fit. I have the small starter and these must really be hard to find!!!!!!!!!! Oh well, and the search goes on and on and on!!!!!!!!!

Dave

lakeholme

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2007, 12:20:00 PM »
Sounds great!  Keep us posted!  This weekend should be a good time to put some break-in miles on that motor.

I'm driving my 68 to church and going cruising afterwards...  Holidays are made for crusing!
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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #45 on: May 27, 2007, 03:23:49 PM »
I'm driving my 68 to church and going cruising afterwards...  Holidays are made for crusing!

Except when it's pouring rain and thunderstorms :(
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lakeholme

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2007, 04:37:29 PM »
You have my complete sympathy! 
It's 82 degrees and not a cloud in the sky!  The preacher preached on a patriotic theme for Memorial day, the VFW Honor Guard posted the colors and we sang patriotic hymns.  We're having hot dogs and apple pie for lunch.  All that's left for a perfect day is cruising in my Chevy...  ;D  ;D  ;D

Just got back and saw all that rain at Indy... Bummer  :(
« Last Edit: May 27, 2007, 11:52:26 PM by lakeholme »
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hotrod68

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #47 on: May 29, 2007, 04:52:23 AM »
For my 2 cents, if you'd like a slight lope at idle to make it sound good but not lose your driveability or vacuum, the Comp Cams 268 hydraulic is fantastic. It has just enough duration to sound like a 350hp cam and not kill your vacuum, and the lift isn't enough to worry about with stock springs. And it'll far outpull a factory 350hp cam because the lobe ramps are so advanced over the '60s stock hi-po cams. From experience I can tell you that a 350 with a 268 cam, headers and an Edelbrock Performer with a 600 Holley is a fun, peppy engine. Good luck!

HotRod'68  1968 SS350 coupe undergoing frame-off resto/rod. 386/350/4.11s
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dab67

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Re: rebuilding engine
« Reply #48 on: May 31, 2007, 04:14:04 PM »
Hotrod:

From what I was told by the comapny that rebuilt my 350, the Edelbrock 2102 is just above the standard 350 cam and just below the 350/375 hp cam used in the Vette. It has just enough lobe to sound like the 350 but doesn't hinder the "crusing" side of the car. The company stated that the engine is closer to 350 hp but definetly is no less than 330hp. I am guessing the Comp Cam is pretty close to what the 2102 is. I know there is a lot more "pull" with this cam also than with the stock cam.

Dave