Author Topic: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles  (Read 24775 times)

Daytona Z

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Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« on: November 13, 2019, 04:16:29 AM »
The story on a recent Z/28 acquisition.

Back in the summer (2019) I was looking for another 69 Camaro and had posted a want ad on sYc when I was contacted by my friend Jeff Boone. Jeff had just picked up a low mileage 3 owner (49,000 mile) Z/28 that he was preparing to sell and we got to talking about it in early September. It didn't take long to see just how nice this late 10E car was and Jeff and I managed to put together a deal on the car. The car didn't have a lot for documents other than its known owner history, a few titles and an odometer statement from the second owner dating back to 1990 when he sold the car in PA. Jeff pulled an NCRS report but as it turns out, this was one of the late cars that didn't have any history on the dealer it was assigned to? I have since double checked this with NCRS who again confirmed "No Information on Document Search VIN 124379N708145". With Jeff having back traced the owners and visiting with a couple of them, here's what was learned about the car.

The car itself was reported as being bought new in North Carolina by original owner Woodrow Wilson Judge. It was traded in about a year later (1970) to Freddie's Performance Cars in Carlisle PA. Having 9000 miles on the odometer, the car was bought by its second owner William A. Miller who traded in his 65 Impala SS to acquire the Z/28 from Freddie's. He drove the car and put about 35,000 miles on it over the course of 20 years, and shared a story with Jeff Boone about driving the car from Pennsylvania to Daytona for the races back in 71/72. He owned the car up until 1990 and sold it for $12,000 at the time with 44,746 showing on the clock. It was said that he only sold it because he wanted cash to buy a new tractor for his small farm. These facts were discussed with Jeff Boone when he went to visit the second owner in October of 2019. A signed mileage affidavit was supplied when the car was sold and re-titled to its third owner. The third owner was Wayne Harmon of Pennsylvania who worked for Fedex and spotted the car outside of Hershey while making his rural rounds. Upon buying the car, he owned it until his untimely passing in a motorcycle accident in 2014. The car then transferred ownership and was willed to his brother Dennis Harmon of PA who owned the car up until it being sold to Jeff in August 2019.

































 






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Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2019, 04:19:56 AM »
Wayne had taken good care of the car while only putting 4122 miles on it over the 24 years he owned it. From looking at old pictures (inset), it appears he also owned a Nova SS and Chevelle SS and cherished his GM cars. It was reported that Wayne had struck a deer with the Z/28 in the mid 90's and had the upper valance was replaced with the right front fender being repaired by Tim Leiphart who owns Hot Rods and Restorations in PA. At that time, Tim had repainted the entire car and did a nice job with the repaint which still looks like new some 25+ years later. With the car being willed to Wayne's brother Dennis in 2014, it again sat for a few years as Dennis was not much of a car guy and didnít have the mechanical knowledge or tools needed to put the car back on the road. As reported to Jeff, Dennis sought the help of a Carlisle based mechanic George Kulp to upgrade a few wear items on the car and go through the original 302 which needed to come apart. Apparently, Wayneís former girlfriend exacted some revenge after a breakup and poured sugar into three of his fuel tanks. The 302 was run before this was determined and the sugar had gummed up the engine (see pictures of engine internals).





George documented the engine coming apart before he rebuilt it and was kind enough to send me some pictures of the 302 coming apart and being rebuilt. He informed me that nothing was hurt and the engine had little to no wear in the cylinders. He remembers this car well as he knew Wayne and knew that the motor was poisoned in years previous. Once torn down, he hot washed the block, measured and polished the original crank, resized the rods and put back the original parts with new rings and bearings and an oil pump. A true roller chain was added along with a Comp factory spec 12-107-3 camshaft and the original heads were serviced with new guides and rockers installed. He then installed the engine back into the car for Dennis and went through everything else on the car. At that time, they replaced the wiper motor, front springs, front shocks, and the water pump along with original radiator.









Thankfully, he gave all the important parts including the factory radiator with tag back to Dennis who kept them with the car until it was sold to Jeff Boone. Jeff has since had the original UH radiator re-cored and shipped me the loose parts along with the car. The original front springs were with the car and theyíre not in terrible shape. They still have their factory paper tags intact so I may put those back onto the car at some point. Jeff also restored the DZ4053 carb which he installed and tuned prior to selling the car to me.  Here are some pictures of the original parts that were packed in the trunk and shipped with the car. Also shown is the original spare and the jack.


















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Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2019, 04:22:01 AM »
Since receiving the car and completely going through it, I was delighted to find it still wears its original front brake calipers, original rotors and has the 1177 rear drums which were all within mfg. spec. The original engine runs great, the factory M20 transmission shifts smoothly, and the rear BU diff runs nice and quiet. The car still wears a matching set of Sept 9th dated YH wheels with factory rings and caps, and Jeff set the car up with some Goodyear F70 wide treads before the sale was completed. I drove the car after it arrived last month and aside from the bias ply tires, itís one terrific old muscle car with a ton of originality throughout. My plans are to clean the underside and suspension and leave it much as it appears today. I will correct any irregularities in the serviced belts and hoses and will check all the fasteners while installing a few other odds and ends that are missing under the hood (lift brackets, original fasteners and such). A really great car that has a ton of things going for it, and one that is super clean and completely rust free throughout.











I love the fact the car wears all of its original sheet metal, has all factory original floors, a super clean original 711 interior and one of the cleanest firewalls I have seen in years. The original trunk paint & factory spare are intact, and the original PTB firewall stamps are clear and visible on both sides. A great original specimen that is pretty much unmolested other than the repaint and a few service items having been replaced over the years. The original distributor and starter were missing from the car and I have since found a late 9E16 distributor that Jerry M is now rebuilding for me. Iíve also sourced a rebuilt J10 dated #692 water pump and a 9J16 dated #367 starter to correct other deficiencies. The original smog system came packed in a box with the car and was complete as removed from the car. The pump is dated 29391S or 293rd day and aligns with the rest of the car for dates. Iíve since come to learn that there are a few oddityís regarding some of the parts used on the late 10E cars that differ from earlier dates. Things like the transmissions being an earlier build date and the peripherals on the smog pump being earlier dated parts (stamped diverter valve and rare early hoses and clamps), but appear original to this car.

I am told that these are known deficiencies and acceptable practice on the late cars as they scrambled for parts to complete the builds during the late over-runs. I now have most of any missing components on the way to correct a few of the irregularities and have also ordered a concourse exhaust system complete with resonators from Eric Gardner. With these items being installed, I should have this car looking 100% come the spring and plan to keep it this way for years to come. The car has itís born with 302 engine with semi-legible VIN in the rough cast, itís original M20 transmission, and itís original BU coded diff.



















Iím still going through the car to find any little things that need correcting, but there really isnít much to report aside from the things noted under the hood. As I continue going through the car, I will post additional pictures showing the details of my findings. The underside needs to be carefully cleaned as the third owner fluffed the bottom and covered some LB over-spray when prepping the car to sell it. After reviewing the chassis, I think I can clean a lot of it off to bring back itís original patina and will try to remove any of the added black paint using enamel reducer and cleaners. I can also see the paint mark on the drivers front sun frame although it's under a few layers of black paint. Iím hoping to bring back a lot of its natural patina and leave it that way once itís cleaned and detailed. More as I go along, and happy to answer any questions regarding the car or any of its original parts throughout the undercarriage and drive line.

Graeme Browne
Calgary, AB




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69Z28-RS

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2019, 04:39:39 AM »
It appears you've found yourself an outstanding '69 Z28 Graeme...  :)   Congratulations!

All that one needs is a bit of cleaning, driving, and getting it back in the garage.. :)

Preserve... Preserve....  Preserve...   :)
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BULLITT65

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2019, 04:59:04 AM »
Great pics. I agree with Gary, drive and keep it clean.
Very similar condition to my 08C car, even the milage is close to mine (47k). I saw what you said about the radiator, did you also get the shocks back?
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

KurtS

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2019, 05:10:15 AM »
Great car.

I have the same issue with my rear brakes - the drum punchouts have not been removed. Can you get your rear drums off? I think I'm going to have to knock mine out to get them off (unless someone knows a trick).

Note the C removed from the axle code. That's not chance....
Kurt S
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BULLITT65

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2019, 05:26:17 AM »
Great car.

I have the same issue with my rear brakes - the drum punchouts have not been removed. Can you get your rear drums off? I think I'm going to have to knock mine out to get them off (unless someone knows a trick).

Note the C removed from the axle code. That's not chance....

I did notice that, and the conspiracy continues....
Also looks like the flapper on the hood is not wired up.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2019, 06:05:02 AM »
Great pics. I agree with Gary, drive and keep it clean.
Very similar condition to my 08C car, even the milage is close to mine (47k). I saw what you said about the radiator, did you also get the shocks back?

Didn't get the front shocks and suspect they are long gone. Rears look to have been changed long ago as it has generic shocks on there \and they've been there a long time.

Original Radiator was nicely re-cored and has the UH tag. I need to repaint it and will install it when I swap out the pump over the winter. Bill Mock shipped me an Oct 10th pump for the car and I also have dated original Wittek clamps coming as well. Flapper is wired and firewall has original piercing. The plastic clip that holds the wire up onto the hood is broken and the wire is dangling off to the side in a couple of those pictures. Here's the original firewall piercing.

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Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2019, 06:17:13 AM »
Great car.

I have the same issue with my rear brakes - the drum punchouts have not been removed. Can you get your rear drums off? I think I'm going to have to knock mine out to get them off (unless someone knows a trick).

Note the C removed from the axle code. That's not chance....

I have had both the rear drums off already. They came off nicely and have since been thrown in a Hotsy tank and washed up nicely.

I knew nothing of the C being stamped out until I bought this car and had a few questions about the stamp. Why were they peened over if they we originally stamped C BU at the factory? Know very little about these facts?





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KurtS

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2019, 07:20:38 AM »
My drums are more worn and there's a lip that hold them on. :(

Noone knows why the C is peened over, but probably related to the extended production year. And for some strange reason they didn't want a C prefix - like that would create all kinds of service confusion!
Kurt S
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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2019, 11:22:01 AM »
Very nice. Thanks for sharing....Joe
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1969 SS396 Yellow/Yellow 08E Norwood born 8/28/1969 pnt 76E. Purchased April 1981

william

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2019, 01:27:37 PM »
A common restoration error is painting the rear drums with Cast Blast. They were originally painted black with the axle. Plenty of evidence of that seen in the pic.
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Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2019, 02:34:47 PM »
Another late year production change were the valve covers which got the dripper style aluminum covers. Myself, I prefer having the drippers in there.



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Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2019, 02:49:59 PM »
Factory original LOF glass is intact with date codes matching up all around. The front windshield and the side glass is dated YV (October) while the rear glass is dated AV (September). I was glad to see it's all original and in great shape with no scratches at all. Another tell tale sign showing that the car was very well cared for and likely stored inside when it snowed.










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william

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2019, 03:03:25 PM »
Another late year production change were the valve covers which got the dripper style aluminum covers. Myself, I prefer having the drippers in there.





Those are not the original covers. Those part numbers originated in the '80s.
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Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2019, 03:18:04 PM »
I like the dating on the factory YH rally wheels, They all match K-1-9 9 9 which is a cool sequence of sorts. The spare has the long valve extension and the 4 wheels on the car have what appears to be matching Dill caps.



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Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2019, 03:22:44 PM »
That's good to know William.

I never checked the numbers or gave them much thought. Just assumed they were 1970 style covers because of the drippers and was told that the late cars had dripper covers showing up.
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william

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2019, 04:08:26 PM »
Original covers become tarnished; no one restored them back then. Very late production cars such as yours did have the drippers.

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Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2019, 06:55:39 PM »
Thanks William.

I started seeing more valve cover restoration efforts in the last 20 years or so as the emphasis became more about originality than available replacement parts. And I agree that some items are considered more "consumable" than others. I did see the 140 part numbers when I first opened the covers to inspect the heads but immediately saw the drippers and said to myself, OK these are wrong! After learning that the late cars actually had drippers, it was kind of back of mind so I never gave them another thought.  8)

Appreciate the sharp eye to bring this back to mind, and totally agree with what you're saying.
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Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2019, 07:24:28 PM »
When the car was delivered it had a bit of an odor which smelled a lot like moth balls. In an effort to clean and deodorize the car, I removed the seats to further inspect the carpets and rule out any mouse nests while cleaning it. Checking the cowl plenum and throughout the interior, all I found was further evidence of a clean dry car that has never seen any rodents, humidity, moisture or condensation. I say that because the floors under the original carpets are dry with clean original paint and the underside of the dash/cowl showing no rust or flash staining. Furthermore, all of the window channels appear as clean and dry as the rest of the car. In other words, zero rust and no decay to be found anywhere in this car. Even the seat frames and seat backs appear like new. Having said that, I'm convinced the car was always stored in a dry climate controlled environment. :)











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z28z11

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2019, 10:18:54 PM »
Another late year production change were the valve covers which got the dripper style aluminum covers. Myself, I prefer having the drippers in there.

What a time capsule - wish all of us could be so lucky. Harks back to '73 when I landed mine, wish I had left it alone as this one appears to have been.

I'll say this - drippers or not, I learned the first time I adjusted the valves to go buy a set of Comp Cams oil deflectors, after pumping a couple of quarts (exaggeration !) of hot oil all over the fender. I didn't realize what "high volume" really meant with a Z oil pump. My covers (right and left) carry the same 2418 part number, no drippers, 01C build. Wonder when or how late they changed ?

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W 1967 Chevy ll Nova SS 
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
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1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06  1949 3100 5wd 235/6

HustleRussell

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2019, 11:28:18 PM »
Great car.

I have the same issue with my rear brakes - the drum punchouts have not been removed. Can you get your rear drums off? I think I'm going to have to knock mine out to get them off (unless someone knows a trick).

Note the C removed from the axle code. That's not chance....


I have used two flathead screwdrivers inserted thru slot in back plate. One to push the adjusting lever away from adjusting screw, and the other screwdriver to turn the adjusting
 screw until the drum will slip off. 
Russ 
68 RS
69 SS

KurtS

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2019, 02:55:39 AM »
Great!  I hadn't looked closely but I didn't think there was enough room.  Thanks!
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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2019, 05:01:54 AM »
...
My covers (right and left) carry the same 2418 part number, no drippers, 01C build. Wonder when or how late they changed ?

Steve

Very late July or early August '69 the dripper valve covers began being used...
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Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2020, 04:14:44 PM »
I haven't posted here in a while so I thought I'd take a few minutes to add some pictures and the car being cleaned up on the underside. With the driveline now out of the car, I'm currently working to remove all of the black spray paint added by the previous owner and that's coming along nicely. In doing so, I am also finding some cool stuff like panel stampings and some paint marks from the factory that were previously hidden. Haven't really got into cleaning the front end suspension parts or the front brakes yet but already have seen 4/5 paint daubs that will warrant some gentle cleaning while working them back into plain view. Having a lot of fun with this as I learn many things about this original car and Camaro's in general that I never knew about before. It's been very rewarding thus far. Working my way forward and started on the rear undercarriage. It will all be done and assembled back in time for spring.


Yellow paint found daub on centre link


Indiction of some paint marks on the yet to be cleaned front suspension


Both sides have orange paint on the rear knuckles


Going to try and save this label when I get to the dust shields.


Original sub-frame bushings still in place throughout the car.


Build/job number found on top of the original tank.


Original fuel tank being cleaned up with paint removal underway.


Original front springs have since been cleaned up and will go back into the car


The motor is out and paint will be dialed back using steam perhaps?


Diff is out of the car for easy access to cleaning the housing and rear floors.





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Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2020, 04:21:30 PM »
Additional pictures showing the lower floors being cleaned up and stripped of black spray paint that the previous owner added. The car is progressing along nicely now.


Broken lower leaf found - drivers side.


Lloyd Costley comes up big with a gratuitist spare provided from one of his original sets!


Trunk floor and rear panel view after some cleaning


Lot's of gray primer was to be found around this car.


Inner returns cleaned up nicely. Trying not to overdo things here.


Original fisher body stamping on the lower return - drivers side


Everything in the rear axle tunnel is now cleaned up and done


Found a T41 date stamping in the floor. I never knew about these until another member educated me on the subject. :-)


Skipping ahead to the inner fenders which have now received some cleaning to remove paint.

I still have a couple of weeks of cleaning to get through with most of the front end and lower suspension to be done. Once I'm through the engine bay, the diff and the driveline will be going back in. That's when I'll drop the front suspension and start detailing each side independently. Should be back on the road in April.
Just an obsessive-compulsive first gen car guy...

did I mention I like three pedals in a car?

firstgenaddict

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2020, 05:18:29 PM »
God I remember doing all of that on the Black RSZ - smelly and ruthlessly obnoxious... I don't know how many times I cussed the rattle can morons... however the paint saved all of the original phosphates and zinc plating on the black car...
You did great on removing the paint on the inner fenders... Can't wait to see the finished vehicle.
James
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Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2020, 07:55:07 PM »
Floors are turning out really nice. I have most of them done now from the seats back including the tunnel. Car is up in the air today and I just put new filters on my full face mask and I don't smell anything at all? Keeps any drips out of my eyes as well. You can see me working in the engine bay in the fist shot, and the second one shows the mask I am using.


That be me inside the engine bay while cleaning.


I always wear a mask with chemicals and solvents in a confined space. Also, I open the door now and then to clear the room. No open flames or sparks either.
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Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2020, 07:58:58 PM »
Here are a few pics of the floors after cleaning them up. Still have a lot of the front to complete.









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firstgenaddict

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2020, 03:39:29 AM »
I wear a full face respirator as well... I cannot stand crap in my eyes, plus with the double valving for breathing your eyes get filtered air as well and there is no fog whatsoever.

FWIW on your valve covers you are looking for the twist in cap with EQUAL LENGTH recess slots (the shorter of the two on yours) on the top of the cover.
The equal length (approx 3") with twist in cap is 69 and 70.
71-72 had equal length with a smooth hole for push in rubber cap.
73 and up covers used a twist in cap with a longer recess on the passenger top rear to clear the EGR valve boss on the intake. (which also makes the drivers front top recess slot longer)
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
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Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2020, 07:14:32 PM »
Yup,

Real clear on the 417 valve covers since learning those differences from you and a few others. Thanks for that. I've missed a couple of pairs on eBay but will snag a pair one of these days. Also looking for the AAC valve cover stand that supports the hose from the booster, and the fuel line clamp for the right rear. Got everything else dialing right in and have been busy perfecting a lot of the smaller things in this car. I think I'm 99.9% correct on factory bolts and correct head markings now.

Moving along nicely here now and should be finished up in 4-5 weeks time. Planning to have it out for spring thaw here in town.
Just an obsessive-compulsive first gen car guy...

did I mention I like three pedals in a car?

BULLITT65

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2020, 01:54:04 AM »
That AAC bracket that holds the booster hose is a tough one. I have been looking for one for my white 69 for a while. Of course I have seen a couple, but pricing was off quite a bit. Keep up the good work!
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2020, 06:14:36 PM »
I haven't posted here in a while so I thought I'd take a few minutes to add some pictures and the car being cleaned up on the underside. With the driveline now out of the car, I'm currently working to remove all of the black spray paint added by the previous owner and that's coming along nicely.
May I ask, what did you use to remove the black spray paint added by the previous owner? I also want to do this on my car.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 07:21:06 AM by KurtS »

Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2020, 04:01:00 AM »
A few people have asked what I am using to cut the spray paint from everything that was painted. This included the floors, frame rails, engine bay, and the front & rear suspension areas. First off, it looked like a lot of this was enamel spray paint, and I don't think the previous owner or mechanic who painted everything did a very good job of the prep as some of it came off rather easily, and there was no undercoating except for inside the wheel wells. The paint removal product I researched and decided to use was Lloyd's Fight Back Graffiti remover. It's a biodegradable product that has claims of removing spray paint from multiple surfaces while not harming the original or underlying finish. I went by the application chart and directions on the side of the aerosol spray bomb and started with a small test area to ensure it did not hurt the original floor finish. Check!

Spraying in control bursts I applied the spray pattern to a small 12" x 12" area at a time and let it set up for 1 to 2 minutes. I then used a white (ultra-fine) and/or green (fine) Scotch Brite pad to work the area in either a directional or circular motion to move the spray paint around while it was being softened by the chemicals. I could see the chemicals softening the paint as I worked it and was careful to keep the work area wet where the chemical also became the lubricant for the pad. This also kept the strokes from being too aggressive. Just a light scuff with the pad was all that was needed to work through the softened spray paint while it was still wet. Getting the area wet and letting the product set up for 1-2 minutes was the key as it began to break down each layer of spray paint. It also served to soak and lubricate the Scotch Brite pad and this keeps the process from getting too aggressive or working beyond a single layer of paint at a time. Once it started to thicken or dry I would quickly rinse it down and wipe it off using clean cotton rags. The product calls for a water rinse to neutralize the chemicals. I tried that but it didn't serve well to remove the paint as it started to dry and it seemed to gum up and became tacky again. I switched to using brake clean from a commercial pump sprayer and this was far better at removing all contaminants in a simple swipe. 

I would then hit it with one more rinse using brake clean which cleaned each area very nicely. As a safety precaution, I would often open the overhead and shop man doors to air out the shop of any fumes as they build quickly. Concerned with shop safety, I also wore a full face (dual cartridge) respirator mask and good rubber gloves. I also made sure the furnace was off and any source of spark was eliminated prior to using any of these products. It would be better using these chemicals outdoors or in a better environment, but being that it's winter up here and temps are kind of cold, I was working in a heated 3 bay garage that I use for my personal workshop. In any case, you can see from the results here that this product is excellent to soften up and remove any spray paints from the original surfaces and produces excellent results. Not everyone is comfortable with brake clean for rinsing things down, but I thought it was better than many other solvent-based products and worked effectively for this project. Here's the link to a technical datasheet for Lloyd's product.

https://www.lloydslaboratories.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Fight-Back-Graffiti-Remover.pdf



You can buy it in a spray bomb as seen above, or you can buy it in a bulk gallon container and dispense from a large pump-action spray bottle. Just be sure you wear gloves and eye protection. It claims to be a fairly safe chemical and is biodegradable but it states that the spray mist should not be inhaled. Again, I chose a mask to avoid breathing in any fumes or mist caused by the spray, and also wore a mask that integrates full eye protection. A must for working under the car and also while spraying brake cleaner. Better safe than sorry is what I like to practice. Here are a few pics that were taken while working around my shop. In the first shot, I am holding up two bottles of Lloyd's product while wearing a mask and gloves.





x
Just an obsessive-compulsive first gen car guy...

did I mention I like three pedals in a car?

Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2020, 04:14:57 AM »
For stripping any rust and/or spray paint from any of the brake lines, fuel lines or hard parts, I soaked them in evapo-rust which softened most of the spray paint and allowed me to wipe much of it off. Any stubborn spots were further stripped using a brass wire wheel on a drill. Delicate parts that I did not want to polish were done at slow speed, or they were cleaned by hand using rust remover and a small brass brush. This was true with the original master cylinder and the brake booster which each had some surface rust and required gentle cleaning. The diff is back in the car now, fuel line is done, and most of the brake lines are also done. I will finish off the master cylinder later this week and have some more cleaning to do on the subframe which will finish up in another week or two. Then the drive train can go back into the car. Ready well before spring is the plan here...then lots of driving and gear rowing. Z/28 style!



















Just an obsessive-compulsive first gen car guy...

did I mention I like three pedals in a car?

bcmiller

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2020, 04:41:24 AM »
Was there any black paint on the rear end pinion yoke?
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
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Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2020, 05:14:07 PM »
No, it was not along with everything else. Thankfully they left the driveshaft and the pinion yoke alone. The pinion appears to be a natural finish with what looks to be a blue inspection mark on the end of the pinion shaft. Straps are originals and have V stamping.



Just an obsessive-compulsive first gen car guy...

did I mention I like three pedals in a car?

bcmiller

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2020, 06:35:52 AM »
Thanks for the pinion yoke pics.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2020, 05:42:24 PM »
A few updates on the car being cleaned up and some parts being restored.

I finally scooped a set of late 69 3932417 covers today and will reskin them once they arrive. One was repaired but I also managed to scoop a single from eBay so all is good once they arrive. I recently installed a new flywheel and clutch onto the back of the 302 and just stripped painted a dated 403 bell housing the other day. Heading out to pair them up today and then the motor can soon go back in. Before it goes back in, the engine will also get a fresh coat of paint in the correct shade of GM orange. Whoever painted it last, painted it in the earlier shade of orange which is darker than it should be for 69. Today and tomorrow I'll do some more cleaning on the front frame horns before I start to reassemble the brakes now that the brake hardware is cleaned up and restored. Exhaust manifolds have also been cleaned up and tumbled so they are ready to now as well. Slowly progressing along here.














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SMS

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2020, 09:21:49 PM »
That bellhousing is perfect.  The whole car is awesome.  Thanks for sharing!

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2020, 01:05:04 AM »
Graeme, I noticed you have orange overspray on the clutch fork boot.  I think I read somewhere on this site that the boot was installed after engine / bell housing paint process.  I won't swear by it, maybe someone with more knowledge will chime in.  Great car and project BTW!
1969 427 COPO Camaro Lemans Blue/Black, M22 4 speed, 15,500 original miles

ZLP955

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2020, 11:34:17 PM »
the engine will also get a fresh coat of paint in the correct shade of GM orange. Whoever painted it last, painted it in the earlier shade of orange which is darker than it should be for 69.
Hadn't heard there was a different shade of orange used for 1969?
Tim in Australia.
1969 04A Van Nuys Z/28. Cortez Silver, Dark Blue interior, VE3, Z21, Z23, D55/U17, D80, flat hood.
Sold at Clippinger Chevrolet in Covina, CA.
AHRA Formula Stock at Lions Dragstrip, NHRA E/MP at Pomona Raceway

169INDY

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2020, 12:23:05 AM »
1956 Chev "RED" maybe?
1955, 1957-1975 "ORANGE"

Source Bill Hirsch Engine Enamel.

just a guess
Jim
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Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2020, 01:51:23 AM »
Graeme, I noticed you have orange overspray on the clutch fork boot.  I think I read somewhere on this site that the boot was installed after engine / bell housing paint process.  I won't swear by it, maybe someone with more knowledge will chime in.  Great car and project BTW!

Yup. RSZMJT had told me about the fork boot going on after and that it was to stay black. The one pictured above is the one that came on this car and already had that skiff of paint on it. Likely from the engine builder who rebuilt the motor in 2015. It's a nice old original boot so I'll wipe the old overspray off of it and reuse it. The inspection cover is one that came to me with this 403 bell and it was also pointed out that it's the wrong design and has the oil pan tabs. It'll do until I can find an old original and Lloyd Costley also pointed out that it needs a little less paint next time around. I shot the whole thing and I'm learning now that it isn't correct. When I find a nice original, I'll just fog it around the edges of the bolts and leave the rest black.

As for paint colors, an old school engine builder & machinist who's done thousands of motors over the past 50 years told me there are 2 GM oranges and that the darker of the 2 belongs on the 68 and earlier blocks with the short water pumps. He uses the Duplicolor DE1607 for the darker orange and Duplicolor DE1620 on engine builds from 69 onwards with long water pumps. I don't know how accurate that claim is, but it's good enough for me as another builder I know uses the exact same 2 paints on his engine rebuilds too. Right or wrong, that's what I was told to go with so here are the paints of choice that I have been using for a while now. I'd suppose it's more of a personal preference as to what people use to paint their motors. I like the brighter color myself and I'm ok with either.

Bell housing has the lighter DE1620 while this block was painted by someone else and more closely matches the darker DE1607. I'll spray the motor with the lighter color before it goes back in the car next week. Just waiting on a couple of parts to arrive.

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ZLP955

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2020, 02:24:12 AM »
Quote
When I find a nice original, I'll just fog it around the edges of the bolts and leave the rest black.
FWIW, the assembly line inspection covers were natural.
Tim in Australia.
1969 04A Van Nuys Z/28. Cortez Silver, Dark Blue interior, VE3, Z21, Z23, D55/U17, D80, flat hood.
Sold at Clippinger Chevrolet in Covina, CA.
AHRA Formula Stock at Lions Dragstrip, NHRA E/MP at Pomona Raceway

cook_dw

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2020, 10:15:09 AM »
1620 is what I use.
If you have solid lifter 1967 - 1969 Camaro please contact me camarodata@gmail.com or Fill Out the form here -->
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Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2020, 01:42:40 PM »
Quote
When I find a nice original, I'll just fog it around the edges of the bolts and leave the rest black.
FWIW, the assembly line inspection covers were natural.

Now that you mention it, that brings back a bit of a foggy recollection on that. Good to know. Thanks  8)
Just an obsessive-compulsive first gen car guy...

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luv2sixty9

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2020, 04:24:45 AM »
Quote
When I find a nice original, I'll just fog it around the edges of the bolts and leave the rest black.
FWIW, the assembly line inspection covers were natural.

Only the back side was natural. The outside portion of the inspection cover is painted orange and or over-sprayed. Here is an original early take off as an example.
1967 Z/28 Butternut Yellow
1969 Z/28 Rally Green
1969 RS Z/28 Lemans Blue
1969 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold
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ZLP955

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2020, 07:17:56 AM »
Meant it was natural as it was installed, then got some orange overspray during engine painting. The service replacement inspection covers were painted black.
Tim in Australia.
1969 04A Van Nuys Z/28. Cortez Silver, Dark Blue interior, VE3, Z21, Z23, D55/U17, D80, flat hood.
Sold at Clippinger Chevrolet in Covina, CA.
AHRA Formula Stock at Lions Dragstrip, NHRA E/MP at Pomona Raceway

firstgenaddict

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2020, 02:32:58 PM »
Looking GREAT,
I know from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that what you are doing is extremely tedious and NASTY work, however the results will be WELL WORTH YOUR EFFORTS!!!
One thing I will say is if you repaint anything use as little paint as required to cover the part... most of the time when you look at cars which have had some restoration work or refurbishment the "redone" areas have too much paint and are too nice which makes them stick out to your eye.
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #50 on: April 21, 2020, 03:14:31 AM »
Roger that, and thanks for the pics of the insp cover.

Finally caught up to some business dealings so now I should start making time for the car again. I installed the bell and painted one quick coat onto the motor so the colors would match. As per a couple of factory original motors I have seen over the years, I was less than careful when painting it and did hit the corners of the intake with a little overspray as the factory did. I finally got around to pulling the second valve cover off only to find it is the right #3932417 factory issued cover? So it now looks like the only one that was ever changed was the driver's side. Good news is I have found another pair and a single from eBay which is the correct side needed (so I guess I'll have spares)

I also had the original exhaust manifolds tumbled and hit those with some VHT high temp clear coat. Not sure how that will hold up once they get some use but time will tell. With most of the engine peripherals restored and ready to go, it should look pretty good when all is reassembled. I need to find some small original parts I have stashed around here and then things can start going back together. No rush with all the crap going on in the world today, but I'd like to have it out in a few weeks to get some seat time with the windows rolled down. Here are a few more pics to update the thread.


The original valve cover from the passenger side. I hadn't checked this one until now.


The part number is correct with 3932417 and drippers. I have one coming for the other side.


The passenger side head is dated H-26-9


Masked of some spare 68 Z covers I have and used them to block paint.


I made sure to hit the intake with a little overspray.


Same thing along the back where I hit the corners of the intake.


Exhaust manifolds are restored as are the original smog trees.


And here's the bell housing with the correct dog bone bolts securing it to the block.
Just an obsessive-compulsive first gen car guy...

did I mention I like three pedals in a car?

Daytona Z

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #51 on: April 30, 2020, 12:40:13 AM »
Still cleaning things up here ahead of dropping the motor back into the car. This includes a lot of degreasing, some minor paint touch-ups, and remounting original things like the front rotors, calipers, brakes, steering, and suspension after having detailed much of it. Hoping to get the motor in on the weekend and will start buttoning it up again. New exhaust from Gardner will be the final touch on it.

Here are some random pictures taken during the past week or so.























Just an obsessive-compulsive first gen car guy...

did I mention I like three pedals in a car?

luv2sixty9

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2020, 01:52:50 AM »
Sale Pending???
1967 Z/28 Butternut Yellow
1969 Z/28 Rally Green
1969 RS Z/28 Lemans Blue
1969 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold
1969 RS SS Pace Car
2010 Aqua Blue 2SS RS

BULLITT65

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2020, 05:31:19 AM »
Did he list this car for sale, or are you kidding?
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

ZLP955

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #54 on: June 14, 2020, 07:44:02 AM »
Over at yenko.net in the classifieds.
Tim in Australia.
1969 04A Van Nuys Z/28. Cortez Silver, Dark Blue interior, VE3, Z21, Z23, D55/U17, D80, flat hood.
Sold at Clippinger Chevrolet in Covina, CA.
AHRA Formula Stock at Lions Dragstrip, NHRA E/MP at Pomona Raceway

BULLITT65

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #55 on: June 14, 2020, 09:19:52 AM »
thank you.

Very nice clean up. A good price and good purchase for the new buyer.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

janobyte

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2020, 08:53:36 PM »
Smart way to sell, smart way to buy.
Going to be a win-win here.
68 Z/28  born with: 302, drive line, etc..

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Re: Lemans Blue 69 Z/28 - 3 Owner Car w/ 49,000 Miles
« Reply #57 on: June 15, 2020, 12:59:41 PM »
Did Graeme ever post the 'week date' on his ZL2 hood??   I was unable to find the 'research report' on the hood dates.... even though I searched.
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