Author Topic: Oil Pan and Windage Tray  (Read 7050 times)

vabeach56wagon

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Oil Pan and Windage Tray
« on: May 12, 2019, 01:34:58 PM »
This car has had a chronic oil leak at rear of pan. I dropped the pan to discover the windage tray differs from what I've seen on this era SBCs plus it doesn't match McNeish's pictured curved edge windage tray.

Please take a look and comment:



The pan itself appears to be original:











The left rear corner of the pan is cracked at the horizontal surface and is not parallel to the rails. I can weld that up and straighten the corner if the pan is indeed original, but that doesn't answer the question of the flat windage tray.

I'm ready to pull the trigger to order a replacement pan, windage tray and pickup (PO did not weld pickup to pump body) if this pan and tray are not original and would greatly appreciate any input. Additionally, any recommendations on the pan gasket would be greatly appreciated. Cleaning the timing cover seal is not going to be easy with the engine in the car.

To remove the pan I did the following: drop idler arm from frame; loosen exhaust at manifolds; loosen trans mount bolts at trans; drain radiator and remove lower radiator hose; remove distributor cap; drain oil; remove starter; remove bellhousing dust cover; remove through bolts on both mounts; jack up engine with 2X6 on floor jack at RH exhaust manifold....drop pan.

paul

Stingr69

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Re: Oil Pan and Windage Tray
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2019, 12:01:14 AM »
You have the wrong Corvette flat tray there.  You can buy the curved style tray and it should work right with that special pan and extended studs you already have.   Gasket looks reusable.

jdv69z

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Re: Oil Pan and Windage Tray
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2019, 12:40:04 AM »
So are the pan and windage tray still available from Chevy. If not, what are people using these days as replacements?
Jimmy V.

Stingr69

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Re: Oil Pan and Windage Tray
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2019, 12:00:38 PM »
Pan is GM discontinued but there are some repros out there for $270.  GM tray is pretty cheap and easy to find.  All the parts houses have them and prices vary enough on those that it is worth shopping around.

janobyte

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Re: Oil Pan and Windage Tray
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2019, 12:35:28 PM »
Give Bob Harris a call at Camaro Specialties.
68 Z/28  born with: 302, drive line, etc..

janobyte

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Re: Oil Pan and Windage Tray
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2019, 12:40:18 PM »
If your replacing the pump and pick-up, pm me.
68 Z/28  born with: 302, drive line, etc..

vabeach56wagon

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Re: Oil Pan and Windage Tray
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2019, 08:47:21 PM »
Thank you all for the information. I have replaced the flat tray with a correct curved one. My pan is an original '69 Z28 pan with the side rails and deflector at the sump.

However, after all the effort to replace the pan gasket, while replacing the flat windage tray with the correct tray, spot welding the pick up to the pump, and generally look at every possible source in an effort to solve a chronic oil leak, I've failed.

I scrupulously inspected the area of the crank in front of the crank flange when I had the pan off. Not a scintilla of oil build up or staining on it. Based on that I decided not to replace the rear main oil seal, but rather just the pan gasket as the old one fell apart as I dropped the pan.

The pan to block rails were bent at the rear of the pan. I straightened them and made sure that the two rails were parallel to one another front to rear.

I inspected the rear of the block closely when I had the flywheel off to have it and the pressure plate balanced. There was no evidence of any leakage from the cam plug nor oil galley plugs. There is no evidence of leakage other than some slight seepage from the valve cover gaskets, intake manifold seal, distributor seal or oil pressure fitting.

However, after my test drive of the freshly buttoned up engine, I parked it in the garage only to discover that there is still a leak and it is running from the rear to the front, from the junction of the trans and bellhousing. No leak at the pan, front, rear or sides.

The leak is engine oil, it is not gear lube. The transmission (an M22 with the correct casting #s and stampings) was built by Riverside Gear and initially leaked at the countershaft opening when I first bolted it in. They made good on the fix and I have also sealed that countershaft opening with a layer of hi-temp RTV silicon.

I'm frustrated, angry, disappointed, and depressed that I haven't solved this leak....

With all the collective experience out there perhaps someone can tell me what I'm missing. I probably should have done the rear main but there was absolutely no trace of oil or oil staining in that area of the crank forward of the flange.

I am contemplating dropping just the rear of the pan to be certain I got the little teats on the gasket in the relieved sections of the block at the rear. I applied a minimal amount of RTV to those areas, and did the same at the front at the timing cover/block/pan interface. I tried to be certain I seated the pan gasket properly.

For the life of me I cannot think of any other possibility for the leak but there is NO oil dripping down the back side of the sump nor the dust cover, just at the trans/bellhousing junction.

If I have to, I'll pull the engine, take it apart and reassemble it to assure myself that I've done everything possible to solve an oil leak, but I'd like to avoid such a drastic step on a car which is so close to being "finished".

paul

janobyte

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Re: Oil Pan and Windage Tray
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2019, 09:41:09 PM »
Nothing around back of intake, oil pressure sender, or valve covers?
68 Z/28  born with: 302, drive line, etc..

janobyte

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Re: Oil Pan and Windage Tray
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2019, 09:44:58 PM »
After a short drive,getting alittle seeping those areas?
68 Z/28  born with: 302, drive line, etc..

z28z11

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Re: Oil Pan and Windage Tray
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2019, 01:59:34 AM »
Which gasket did you use ? One piece I assume ? Is there enough gasket over the main bearing arch to seal the pan ?

We had a discussion about the gaskets and pan sealing a couple of years back - mostly centered around the 2 FelPro one-piece offerings.

Just asking -

Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W 1967 Chevy ll Nova SS 
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06  1949 3100 5wd 235/6

Stingr69

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Re: Oil Pan and Windage Tray
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2019, 01:41:02 PM »
Clean all the oil off then hit the bell housing with talcum powder.  I would look for a leak at the back of the intake manifold or the oil pressure port/line area. Oil will run downhill when you are not moving.  It goes all over the place when you drive.

vabeach56wagon

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Re: Oil Pan and Windage Tray
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2019, 03:43:23 PM »
Clean all the oil off then hit the bell housing with talcum powder.  I would look for a leak at the back of the intake manifold or the oil pressure port/line area. Oil will run downhill when you are not moving.  It goes all over the place when you drive.

Here's the back of the block before the pan was dropped, no changes to oil pressure sender, intake, valve covers during pan replacement:



I used the Fel-Pro one piece, straightened the pan rails to parallel. Will drop rear of pan to be absolutely certain the gasket tangs fit into the block depressions....but if they didn't, I'd have leakage down the back of the pan, which I don't........only between trans and bellhousing mating surfaces. It is not gear lube.

This is weird....and I am totally befuddled, even more than normal.

paul

Stingr69

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Re: Oil Pan and Windage Tray
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2019, 07:45:19 PM »
There might be an oil path on the top of the bell housing?


z28z11

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Re: Oil Pan and Windage Tray
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2019, 12:34:22 AM »
Finally found the thread that I wanted - couple of years back. After re-reading it, I'm more convinced that your leak is possibly at the interface of the ends of the rear main seal - the seal is either worn, or maybe not "mismatched" (clocked), or not sealed at the ends of the seal. Since you've got it down that far, why not pop a new seal in and reassemble ? Read this and you might get some additional tips:

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=11551.msg91877#msg91877

Frustrating, I'm sure. Nobody like a leaker -

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W 1967 Chevy ll Nova SS 
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06  1949 3100 5wd 235/6

TODD

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Re: Oil Pan and Windage Tray
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2019, 12:26:38 PM »
Paul I fixed my 302 leak after having the engine out 3 times to do it. Very frustrating.
Bottom line measure and check everything, my leak was at the crank rear seal journal.
Turns out a machinist (at some point) cleaned up the seal journal by removing .010" created a significant leak.
I used a .010' shim under a new Fel-pro Fluoroelastomer seal and sealed both the shim mating surfaces to the block and to the seal.
Use a good RTV Mil-A-46146 Adhesive Sealant.
Problem is the crank has to come out to perform that! So not an in the car seal replacement.
Funny things happen to motors after 50 years! So again start with block is the dimension correct no line bore?
Whats the journal dimension?

Todd