Author Topic: 67 saginaw casting numbers  (Read 9326 times)

Keller-L30M20

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67 saginaw casting numbers
« on: March 09, 2019, 03:26:09 PM »
I'm new to this site and not sure how to do this, but here goes. I've recently picked up a barn find M20/L30 RS #124377N1XXXXX in the upper Midwest with 38,000 miles that seems to be an early car that the 4P was not on the cowl tag. Cowl tag says built 5th week of October. It has a MK date proper block, heads and intake, 3.55 10 bolt PK code non-posi rear end, dealer installed radius rod (dealer welded bracket right over the date code). Also has the original carb and shifter were in the trunk (has a Holly and Hurst on it right now) The problem is like most M20/L30 cars the prior owner had blown the trans and replaced it with a 1974 Saginaw 4 speed trans. I real would like to put it back to 100% original but need to find out what the proper numbers are for the trans. CRG lists the main case number (3915032) but nowhere could I find what the proper side cover and tail shaft numbers are. I have a line on a date proper 6 cylinder 4 speed that has the case number but not sure it the side cover and tail shaft are the same numbers V8 trans. I know the gearing is different for a 6 banger but I would rebuild it with the proper ratios.  Any help would be appreciated.
Also, Thank You. Your site is a world of information and has helped me a lot. Keep up the "great work"

Kelley W King

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2019, 04:24:04 PM »
I did not think the gearing was different?
69 Z28 RS Scuncio Hi Performance
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Keller-L30M20

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2019, 04:49:21 PM »
All 6 cylinder motors had a 3:11 first gear and the L30 trans for V8s was a 2:54 1st gear

bertfam

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2019, 04:50:04 PM »
Yes, the gearing is different between the 1967 230 and 250 6 cylinder Saginaw 4 speed transmission and the 1967 LF7 (327/210) and L30 (327/275) V8 Saginaw 4 speed transmission. The gearing is as follows:

230 and 250 6 cylinder
1st - 3.11
2nd - 2.20
3rd - 1.47
4th - 1.00
Rev - 3.11

LF7 (327/210) and L30 (327/275)
1st - 2.54
2nd - 1.80
3rd - 1.44
4th - 1.00
Rev - 2.54

The 1967 Camaro main case casting number is 3915032, the extension housing is 3860042, the side cover is 3890527 and the front bearing retainer is 3859033. Note that the 6 cylinder Saginaw 4 speed transmission casting numbers are the same as the V8 Saginaw 4 speed transmission casting numbers. Only the "guts" are different.

Oh, and welcome to the site Mr. Keller! Tell us more about the car.

Ed


Keller-L30M20

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2019, 05:30:57 PM »
Thank You, Ed. I'm the third owner. the car was in a dirt floor barn in northern Wisconsin for the last 15 years. Surprisingly there is very little rust on it. some minor swis-cheese in the trunk floor and a couple of 1/2 dollar holes on the bottom of the rear inner wheel wells, other than that just a lot of surface rust on the under chassis. It was repainted back in the late 70's or early 80's. Who ever did the paint job did a really nice job cause the only thing I might do right now is repair the upper valance where its chipped and buff the rest of the car out. It's a black car with the original black vinyl top,with a few small rust bumps at the back bottom of the sail, but no dry rot; black & white interior with the back fold down seat. It has the full factory console gauge setup with the Tac in the dash. I got wind of it through the grape vine and made a move on it. I guess right place, right time. I didn't steal it but by far didn't over pay for it. Thanks for asking, Frank

bertfam

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2019, 05:44:43 PM »
Ok Frank, you're going to have to post some pictures! It sounds like a really nice car.

Ed

olddragracer

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2019, 04:13:12 PM »
I believe the 1967 Saginaw 4 speed was redesigned during the 1967 production. The case, cluster gear and all the parts involved with reverse are different and not interchangeable. I am not sure when during the year the change occurred. This info is from my memory.

bertfam

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2019, 09:50:25 PM »
The main case and side cover casting numbers changed for the 1968 model years, which began in August of 1967, but that's the only thing I can find.

Ed

olddragracer

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2019, 11:49:48 PM »
I have just checked my Feb. 1970 Camaro parts catalogue. The Saginaw transmission case part number for 1967 3 and 4 speeds "FIRST JOBS" is 3890566. The 4 speed "AFTER JOBS" case part number is 3925654. I do not have the original casting numbers or the date of the design change. The improved reverse idler gear made it necessary to change the case, reverse shift lever, 1st -2nd synchronizer assembly with reverse sliding gear and reverse idler shaft. There were other changes to improve the transmission. The side cover changes in 1970. Saginaw 4 speeds were used in Vega to trucks so there are many variations out there. More research may be necessary but I hope this helps.

Keller-L30M20

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2019, 01:42:20 AM »
What your saying is the number that CRG has for the main case number is wrong. This is where I'm getting a little confused. I'm getting mixed answers. The cars build date 10E was actually Monday Oct 31st so the car was built the first week of November. Therefore the case was most likely cast sometime in August or September and the trans would have been built somewhere between Sept and Oct of 66. Everything on this car checks out to be original except the trans, muffler and tires. I know these were notorious for being blown and then switched out for a Muncie. At least one of the prior owners that blew the trans put a Saginaw back in it. You mean to tell me there are no original L30/M20 cars out there to verify what trans went in to it

olddragracer

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2019, 02:45:13 AM »
The numbers I supplied are part numbers as of February 1970 and are different from casting numbers. I am trying to point out that in 1967 production there are at least two different castings used for the main case. I am not sure when, as the parts catalogue calls "AFTER JOBS" were installed on the production line. Looking inside the transmission The "FIRST JOBS" reverse idler is 1 1/2" long and the "AFTER JOBS" reverse idler is 2 1/8" long. The reverse main shaft gear "FIRST JOBS" gear teeth are partial width of sliding sleeve, "AFTER JOBS" the gear teeth are full width of the sliding sleeve.

Keller-L30M20

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2019, 03:12:00 AM »
So more than likely 3890664 would be the main case for this car?

Keller-L30M20

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2019, 01:21:34 PM »
Thanks ED, I also tried to upload photos but couldn't figure out how. Whats the secret? Or I can e-mail them direct to you. Frank

bertfam

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2019, 01:58:30 PM »
Yes, go ahead and email them to me. My email address is in my signature below.

Ed

olddragracer

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2019, 03:49:22 PM »
Of some interest. In my observation, over the years, the part number is often one or two numbers higher than the casting number. In this case, casting number is 3890564, part number is 3890566

bcmiller

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2019, 08:34:02 PM »
Of some interest. In my observation, over the years, the part number is often one or two numbers higher than the casting number. In this case, casting number is 3890564, part number is 3890566

Yep, that’s pretty widely known.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

Keller-L30M20

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2019, 01:28:59 PM »
So back to the original question, What is the proper casting numbers of a Saginaw 5 speed trans cast iron parts for a November built 67 Camaro?  Thanks

Keller-L30M20

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2019, 01:31:31 PM »
Oops meant 4 speed - Fat fingers

bcmiller

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2019, 04:13:42 PM »
So back to the original question, What is the proper casting numbers of a Saginaw 4 speed trans cast iron parts for a November built 67 Camaro?  Thanks

I used to walk by these transmissions at swap meets all the time. I have a buddy that I see once it a while that may have one. If I find one, I can let you know.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

KurtS

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2019, 04:42:01 PM »
They are not easy to find. They didn't hold up and they weren't desirable. I'd probably install a Muncie if I didn't have one.
Kurt S
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Keller-L30M20

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2019, 06:00:53 PM »
I have no intention of racing it or beating on it. That's the whole object of putting it back to original is there are so few of them remaining because they have been converted to Muncie. This one does have the proper Saginaw, just the wrong year Saginaw

Keller-L30M20

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2019, 07:18:01 PM »
I may have stumbled on to trans with one grove and casting numbers of main case 3890664 k 26 6 or (3890564) side cover 3840527 J 23 5 -Am I on the right track?

bertfam

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2019, 09:41:40 PM »
Quote
I may have stumbled on to trans with one grove and casting numbers of main case 3890664 k 26 6 or (3890564) side cover 3840527 J 23 5 -Am I on the right track?

No, you stated that your car was started the 5th week of October, 1966 (10E), so that transmission won't work for you. That main case was cast on Saturday, November 26th, 1966, so it's dated a month AFTER your car was built. Also, the side cover is dated October 23rd, 1965, so it's way too early. Are you sure about the 5? Maybe it's a 6?

Ed

Keller-L30M20

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2019, 12:19:45 AM »
It is a 6 on the side cover, photo was a little fuzzy. But what I'm looking at are these the proper casting numbers for that time frame build? And who's to say these wasn't service trans installed under warranty sometime early 67, But I'm looking more at the casting numbers. Thanks Ed

KurtS

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2019, 05:11:06 AM »
A month early is pretty darn close - right casting - all depends on how exact you want to be.
Kurt S
CRG

Keller-L30M20

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2019, 12:53:29 PM »
Thank You

bertfam

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2019, 01:25:27 PM »
If you're looking for something date coded correct to the car, then I agree with Kurt, go with a month prior. Something in the mid to late September (I) or early to mid October (J) range. But if you're looking for a transmission that would have been replaced under warranty, you can go up to 5 years after the car was built, but you'll need to find one with a CT code. The GM warranty period back then was 5/50 (5 years or 50k miles, whichever came first).

Ed

Keller-L30M20

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2019, 02:07:54 PM »
It gives me some options, as long as I can get it close, I can live with that. I bought that trans for $100 and it has a single grove on the shaft so it's the right gearing. But now that I have a few options, I'l keep my eyes open and continue reading the site blog. Thanks for everyone's help.

olddragracer

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2019, 04:42:16 PM »
Remember that main case casting number 3890564 was use in 3 speeds, cars and trucks. That should make it easier to find one with the correct date code. The side cover is 4 speed only. I believe the extension housing is also the same for 3 an4 speeds. You would have to piece a transmission together. That can be done if you want the correct date codes.

Keller-L30M20

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2019, 02:14:48 PM »
OK, I did find a trans that's close but have another question. On the bottom where the usage is stamped below the side cover, instead of the usual R9A26 being stamped, this trans has R1130. I know the R stands for Saginaw 4 speed but what does the 1130 mean?

bertfam

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2019, 03:18:32 PM »
R1130 appears to be the the 1966 date format (November 30th, 1966 or 1965 since it was introduced in August, 1965), but the 1966 main case was 3890564. If it's 3915032, it should be in the 1967 format. Can you post a picture of the date, and is it a 3915032?

Ed

Keller-L30M20

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Re: 67 saginaw casting numbers
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2019, 03:43:18 PM »
The case number is 3890564, side cover is 3890527 and can't make out the tail shaft number and cant make out the dates if the last number is a 5 or a 6. Thanks Ed

 

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