Author Topic: Multiple factory POP errors or clever fake?  (Read 4175 times)

68 Ragtop

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Multiple factory POP errors or clever fake?
« on: February 28, 2019, 02:29:18 PM »
This car has sold a couple of times recently and been discussed on all the sites, but I have never seen a real explanation for the discrepancies.
Everyone seems distracted by the cool factor and patina. Several have questioned the discrepancies, but no one has addressed the elephant in the room.

The engine date on the POP is completely different from the engine pad stamp
The transmission stamp has 1 letter mistake compared to the POP and the VIN is double stamped with 1 and 2 characters faint or missing on each.

Is this a case of multiple factory errors, an early misguided attempt at forgery, or just a clever fake?

124379L522031






https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-RS-SS-/223409382608?_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l44720&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-RS-SS-396-4-SPEED-/232589518569?_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l44720&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true


cook_dw

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bcmiller

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Re: Multiple factory POP errors or clever fake?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2019, 11:26:52 PM »
Good questions James.

Last Sold for $39,290.00.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

68 Ragtop

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Re: Multiple factory POP errors or clever fake?
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2019, 01:17:09 PM »
https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=153422

Yes I read that thread and others before posting. It's a real Gentleman's Club over there at Yenko. They tend to respect each others cars publicly, so not surprised no one picked it apart. I also can't comment in that section without being a paid member, which I am not.

You guys know this, but let me state for others who are casual readers:
The casting date should be shortly before the assembly date and the assembly date shortly before the car build date. Some people are using this information and thinking it is OK to have the engine stamp date shortly before the POP engine date. This is false. The POP engine date and code is read directly from the engine and imprinted on the POP and should match exactly. That said, this engine is not matching numbers, but that does not mean a mistake could not have happened and this could be the original engine in some extra ordinary exception to the rule that I have never seen before.

In order to prove that, the partial VIN stamp would be needed, but it is not shown. It's also not shown where it would be, on the pad near the assembly code or near the oil filter in the rough cast. That makes me wonder if there is a different VIN there making this a period correct instead of original engine.



cook_dw

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Re: Multiple factory POP errors or clever fake?
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2019, 01:34:36 PM »
Did the person ever state the engine was "born with"? I may have missed it.  Not defending as I do not care but just curious.

BULLITT65

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Re: Multiple factory POP errors or clever fake?
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2019, 02:51:16 PM »
maybe someone should PM the owner and ask him if a vin is stamped by the oil filter
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

z28z11

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Re: Multiple factory POP errors or clever fake?
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2019, 03:22:46 PM »
maybe someone should PM the owner and ask him if a vin is stamped by the oil filter

Good idea. LA car or not, if the VIN is not stamped on the pad by this date in January, it should have be above the filter. Pad looks original, stamping looks good. It will be difficult to see with the engine in the car, but worth the effort to squash the debate.

I thought the build date might be the possible reason for th error, but January 27 was a Monday, 31st a Friday, so it wasn't a weekend break that could have preceded the POP "error".

JMO-
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W 1967 Chevy ll Nova SS 
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06  1949 3100 5wd 235/6

ZLP955

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Re: Multiple factory POP errors or clever fake?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2019, 12:51:30 AM »
Since the factory put the drivetrain details on the PoP, I would think it would not have gone unnoticed with several errors on it; perhaps one digit incorrect, or two transposed, but ....... who knows?
Tim in Australia.
1969 04A Van Nuys Z/28. Cortez Silver, Dark Blue interior, VE3, Z21, Z23, D55/U17, D80, flat hood.
Sold at Clippinger Chevrolet in Covina, CA.
AHRA Formula Stock at Lions Dragstrip, NHRA E/MP at Pomona Raceway

68 Ragtop

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Re: Multiple factory POP errors or clever fake?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2019, 03:50:53 PM »
Did the person ever state the engine was "born with"? I may have missed it.  Not defending as I do not care but just curious.

No, never used the "born with" designation anywhere I looked. To me, matching numbers implies born with. Maybe I am naive.

68 Ragtop

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Re: Multiple factory POP errors or clever fake?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2019, 03:52:32 PM »
maybe someone should PM the owner and ask him if a vin is stamped by the oil filter

It just sold, so point is probably moot.

68 Ragtop

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Re: Multiple factory POP errors or clever fake?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2019, 03:55:37 PM »
Since the factory put the drivetrain details on the PoP, I would think it would not have gone unnoticed with several errors on it; perhaps one digit incorrect, or two transposed, but ....... who knows?


You would think it would get noticed if any warranty claim was ever made. Theoretically warranty would be denied due to proof of not original engine installed by the factory. That's the whole point of putting the component numbers on the POP.

ZLP955

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Re: Multiple factory POP errors or clever fake?
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2019, 03:13:35 AM »
I'd have thought even if the factory missed errors on the PoP before the car shipped, it might have been picked up at the dealership during prep or pre-delivery, or at least when adding the buyer's details.
Tim in Australia.
1969 04A Van Nuys Z/28. Cortez Silver, Dark Blue interior, VE3, Z21, Z23, D55/U17, D80, flat hood.
Sold at Clippinger Chevrolet in Covina, CA.
AHRA Formula Stock at Lions Dragstrip, NHRA E/MP at Pomona Raceway

 

anything