Author Topic: Distrubtor raised to high?  (Read 5798 times)

dalekerr

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Distrubtor raised to high?
« on: January 08, 2019, 03:15:30 AM »
I took my 67 327 to a local old school mechanic  to change the oil pan gasket, check the rear seal and stop a transmission leak, Muncie. I also asked him to adjust the valves.

When I picked it up, he said he took care of the leaks and it was also leaking at the distrubtor. He claimed he fixed all the leaks also replaced the rear seal.

Well the passenger side valve were now ticking? I took it back to him to check the rockers again.

Well the rear seal continued to leak and the rockers ticked. So I took it to another mechanic. He pulled the oil pan, found metal in the pan and the rear seal in backwards. Then pulled the valve covers and found very little oil coming to the passenger side  rockers? He thought I had a collapsed hydraulic lifter or another issue. Next he pulled the distributor and found six gaskets stacked  on it?

Raising the distrubtor over 1/4 inch. He replaced the lifters and put it back together. Removed all but one gasket on the dust.  We now had oil like we needed to the rockers

I have now driven the car about 20 miles, the oil pressure now goes to zero while idling and the motor is starting to sound like a deseil. Afraid to drive it anymore?

Could the distrubtor being raised have cut off the oil to the lifters and main bearings?

Sorry so long. Note my oil pressure has dropped from 60 cold to 40 psi and goes to zero after hot and idling.



Apparently I drove the car about 200 miles with very little oil coming to the
Dale Kerr
1967 Y 2 350 M20 12 Bolt Vintage Air
03D

jvb6648

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2019, 04:36:53 AM »
Distributor drives the oil pump. If the distributor wasn't down all the way it means the distributor was not engaging the slot on the oil pump shaft. When you lift the dist. out as it separates from the cam gear it will rotate the oil pump shaft. That old school mechanic probably marked the rotor position and put it back in to the mark without moving the oil pump shaft back. The oil pump was probably turning by friction from the bottom of dist. gear. The engine was starved of oil.
Jim
68 Z/28

Emo1956

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2019, 12:55:03 PM »
I wouldn't drive it again and pull the motor.More then likely the bearing have starved for oil and there is to much clearance in the bearing.

jvb6648

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2019, 01:05:31 PM »
If metal was found in the pan it's probably from the crankshaft. Don't know why some bearing caps weren't pulled to check bearings and journals. Looks like engine out, crank out and to a machine shop to see if it can be saved. The diesel sound is likely knocking from loose now trashed bearings.
Jim
68 Z/28

JKZ27

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2019, 06:48:47 PM »
X3 (don't run it anymore)
Remove and disassemble the engine and see how bad it is.
Is it the original 327? 210hp or 275hp?
John
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68 RS Ash/Ivy Gold 327EFI M20

JohnSlack

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2019, 07:17:46 PM »
As an engine builder for many years, trust me. Stop the train. Pull the motor and go through it. Don't go back to that old school guy, he'll just tell you it was your fault and he will learn nothing. Move forward.
John

bcmiller

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2019, 07:41:09 PM »
Yep, engine needs to be torn down and checked over completely. Sorry.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
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crossboss

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2019, 11:15:13 PM »
Sorry to hear about the engine and resulting so called 'mechanics' botch job. Don't attempt to start it again, as you may cause even more severe damage. I agree, pull the engine and take it to a reputable machine shop/mechanic. Keep us posted.
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dalekerr

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2019, 11:25:17 PM »
Thanks for the reply’s. I took the car to a machine shop today. They are going to pull the motor and see if it can be rebuilt again, the motor had about 2k miles on it!

If it can be rebuilt they are going to change the crankshaft to a 350 crank the motor is an ma 210 horsepower. The heads had been changed to double hump, with headers and a four barrel carb.

From what I researched it looks like raising the distributor cuts of the oil to the cam, lifters and main bearings. There is a grove on the distributor that lets oil pass to these areas.
Dale Kerr
1967 Y 2 350 M20 12 Bolt Vintage Air
03D

Charley

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2019, 01:40:17 PM »
Anybody that puts 6 gaskets on the dist. is nowhere close to being a mechanic. He needed all those gaskets because the dist was not dropped down all the way to engage the oil pump.

rsms

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2019, 03:27:29 PM »
You might want to question your machine shop as a 1967 327 has a small journal crankshaft.  I'm unaware of any small journal 350's 

crossboss

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2019, 06:06:30 PM »
You might want to question your machine shop as a 1967 327 has a small journal crankshaft.  I'm unaware of any small journal 350's


+1.
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dalekerr

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2019, 08:24:28 PM »
The research if have done shows the 327 small journal can be converted to a 350 by either milling the block for a large journal crank or taking a large journal crank and milling it down to a small journal. The machine shop that is doing the job assured me they have done this numerous times with no issues.

If I am being led astray please correct me. I will not be racing this car, mainly cruising.

Thanks in advance.



Dale Kerr
1967 Y 2 350 M20 12 Bolt Vintage Air
03D

z28z11

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2019, 12:35:10 AM »
Why not locate a forged 283 crank and build yourself a 302 ?

Nothing like a 3.00" stroke to wake up the neighbors - rod  lengths are good, just use the 302 piston for pin height.

Can't help the obsession with with Z motors -

Regards,
Steve
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crossboss

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2019, 12:42:15 AM »
The research if have done shows the 327 small journal can be converted to a 350 by either milling the block for a large journal crank or taking a large journal crank and milling it down to a small journal. The machine shop that is doing the job assured me they have done this numerous times with no issues.

If I am being led astray please correct me. I will not be racing this car, mainly cruising.

Thanks in advance.



My worthless two cents…
I would not machine your blocks small journals to fit the larger 350 crank. That said, IF you are looking to increase the cubic inches, purchase a good stroker crankshaft kit instead. This way you are not doing harm to the original engine. Just me...
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JohnSlack

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2019, 01:01:44 AM »
I am just going to suggest buying a 350 Chevrolet short block from someone. They are cheap, you can put your 327 on a shelf for posterity.
John

crossboss

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2019, 03:22:12 AM »
I am just going to suggest buying a 350 Chevrolet short block from someone. They are cheap, you can put your 327 on a shelf for posterity.
John



Thats good advice from John. Also, you can buy a new crate engine from Chevrolet with a warranty! The advantage is its already assembled and ready to drop in. Can't beat that.
Just another T/A fanatic. A new project in the works.

KurtS

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2019, 03:12:19 AM »
The gain from a 327 to a 350 isn't much, esp for a cruiser. And you need new pistons.
You'll get more power from selecting good rings and cam and working the heads....
Kurt S
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PHAT69AMX

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2019, 05:01:23 AM »
Real bummer to hear about this... unaware where you are at, but happened across this complete 327 engine
on CraigsList New Hampshire and it reminded me of your post/thread, so thought it couldn't hurt to post the link.

https://nh.craigslist.org/pts/d/west-springfield-1967-chevychevy-327/6767674671.html

dalekerr

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2019, 01:30:17 AM »
A little update I trailered the car to an engine shop. After the motor was removed and inspected they called and told  the bearings were all damaged by someone using a sanding disc to remove old gaskets!

The last mechanic removed the intake and replaced the lifters, then ran the car and drove it. Next he removed the oil pan and replaced the rear seal that was leaking. He took a picture of the rear main bearing and it showed wear damage. In the picture he took it shows the sanding disc on the work bench!

The engine shop says they see this kind of damage all the time caused by mechanics taking shot cuts. I researched and most new car manufacturers have TSB about this practice.

I confronted the mechanic politely and asked if they ever used sanding disc? He basically through me out of his shop, claiming I had major issues before he ever touched my car and he did not cause any problems!
 
I sent him the picture he sent me showing the disc on the bench setting next to the removed bearing?

Wow, my luck will turn soon, a Saints fan!



Dale Kerr
1967 Y 2 350 M20 12 Bolt Vintage Air
03D

crossboss

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2019, 03:57:54 PM »
A little update I trailered the car to an engine shop. After the motor was removed and inspected they called and told  the bearings were all damaged by someone using a sanding disc to remove old gaskets!

The last mechanic removed the intake and replaced the lifters, then ran the car and drove it. Next he removed the oil pan and replaced the rear seal that was leaking. He took a picture of the rear main bearing and it showed wear damage. In the picture he took it shows the sanding disc on the work bench!

The engine shop says they see this kind of damage all the time caused by mechanics taking shot cuts. I researched and most new car manufacturers have TSB about this practice.

I confronted the mechanic politely and asked if they ever used sanding disc? He basically through me out of his shop, claiming I had major issues before he ever touched my car and he did not cause any problems!
 
I sent him the picture he sent me showing the disc on the bench setting next to the removed bearing?

Wow, my luck will turn soon, a Saints fan!



Wow! Not trying to stir the pot, you actually may have a cause of action (small claims case) for damage to the engine as a result from the incompetent mechanic.
Just another T/A fanatic. A new project in the works.

Charley

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2019, 04:23:53 PM »
But in the pic you say showed the sanding disc also showed you already had damage to rear main bearing.

dalekerr

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2019, 05:08:14 PM »
Yes there was already damage to the rear main, but the mechanic had replaced the lifters, adjusted the valves, timeing and test drove the car for several miles.

The machine shop claims they have  had to rebuild several motors for local dealers that were only started and test drove after the heads were cleaned with a sanding disc.

The TSB states the oxide particles off the disc are too small for the oil filter to collect, they just stay in the oil and do bearing damage immediately.
Dale Kerr
1967 Y 2 350 M20 12 Bolt Vintage Air
03D

bcmiller

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2019, 05:10:23 PM »
But in the pic you say showed the sanding disc also showed you already had damage to rear main bearing.

What pic?
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

dalekerr

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2019, 05:56:20 PM »
The mechanic who removed the intake took a picture of the rear main bearing in it on his work bench is a package of the disc and a used one along with the tool to use them. I will try to post pictures soon.
Dale Kerr
1967 Y 2 350 M20 12 Bolt Vintage Air
03D

dalekerr

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2019, 06:12:42 PM »
How do I resize the picture to post? Or I can forward to somenoe to help post. email?
Dale Kerr
1967 Y 2 350 M20 12 Bolt Vintage Air
03D

KurtS

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2019, 06:51:15 PM »
The easier complaint to prove would be the distributor gaskets - that's a truly boneheaded move....
Kurt S
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RonA

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2019, 01:15:12 PM »
There will be some particles from those sanding disc's but the worst thing they do is screw up the gasket surface.  If the rear main is damaged I'm assuming their talking about the rear thrust. If that is the case 99% of rear thrust problems stem from the transmission [clutch/converter/pump/misalignment]. Oil problems should affect the rest of the bearings. If this is the case your new motor will have the same fate.

Kelley W King

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Re: Distrubtor raised to high?
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2019, 03:49:21 PM »
I think if the motor was fresh I would just get a crank kit and have GOOD mechanic install it and check out the rest of the motor. The who done what probably will not get you very far.
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