Author Topic: HMM 1969 Camaro feature  (Read 5068 times)

william

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HMM 1969 Camaro feature
« on: August 28, 2018, 04:07:32 PM »
Just received the October 2018 Hemmings Muscle Machines. The issue features a “Buyers Guide: 1969 Chevrolet Camaro SS396.” Always willing to learn, I checked it out immediately. I was surprised and disappointed by the errors in the article.

The Rosetta stone for Chevrolet production data is the report obtained in the late ‘80s from Chevrolet by Len Williamson for his book “Tailfins and Bowties.” The totals were as of December 31, 1969 and included the extended production run for the 1969 Camaro.

HMN lists total production as 230,799; actual production was 243,085. They list Camaro SS production as 32,932; actual production was 34,932. SS w/396 engine is shown as 12,904; actual is 12,593; he incorrectly included L89 cars in the total. L89 was an aluminum cylinder head option that required the L78 engine.

The article states the M20 wide-ratio 4-speed was not available with the L78 engine. That’s incorrect; not only is it listed as an option for the L78 engine, several L72 COPOs were built with the M20. Also stated is that BB engines required a special rocker cover to clear the power brake booster. That’s not true; only BB Corvettes required it.  Also stated, X22 and X66 body tags indicate an SS396. Some early production COPOs also had X22 and X66 tags. The article states that there were some SS396 Camaros built with 4 wheel disc brakes; no documented JL8 SS is known to exist [the two track Z11s were converted to JL8 by the Tech Center]. He also states “All Super Sports received the D90 hockey stick fender stripe unless special paint was ordered.” Also not true; there are a few known special paint SS cars with the D90 stripe. The article never mentions Z10s, many of which were SS396s.

I'm sure a lot of work went into the 5-page feature. Too bad.
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x66 714

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Re: HMM 1969 Camaro feature
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2018, 04:40:17 PM »
:(
See America's First, Chevrolet

1968 Z/28 Corvette Bronze. Black Hounds Tooth. 02E Los Angeles born 3/13/1968 pnt OO. Purchased March 1976
1969 SS396 Yellow/Yellow 08E Norwood born 8/28/1969 pnt 76E. Purchased April 1981

69Z28-RS

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Re: HMM 1969 Camaro feature
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2018, 05:33:48 PM »
William,

I suggest you contact HMM with your corrections even if only via 'Comment' to their article.

Further note:

1) Their comment re 'special paint' isn't totally incorrect, but should be reworded to be more accurate ie.   'unless excluded or via special paint option'

2) I AM aware of an SS396 which had the JL8 brake option (back in the late '70s).  I looked at it at the time, but didn't have a chance to check the dates/codes on the rear; it all looked totally original at the time (1978 when the car was purchased off an Oldsmobile dealer used car lot for $900).  I still have access to the owner of the car and I will attempt to do a more detailed inspection soon and report on it if you believe they weren't produced...?  I've never had any doubt about it... until now.

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Kelley W King

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Re: HMM 1969 Camaro feature
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2018, 05:39:01 PM »
I have posted before about most of the magazine articles of the day. Not just production numbers but simple things like "picture of one owner original Z with very few options, came with plain steel wheels " and article has pictures to prove it. I know that is what the writer was told but a qualified writer should know better. Many articles about all makes like that. I think they should get someone to proof read their stuff.
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william

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Re: HMM 1969 Camaro feature
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2018, 06:39:35 PM »
There have been a few alleged JL8 SS cars but none with real proof. The two that come to mind were rotisserie restorations; anything could have been done. The only non-Z/28 JL8 I know of is the Frost Green L65 4-speed. No docs but was a survivor when found, very original condition.

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KurtS

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Re: HMM 1969 Camaro feature
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2018, 07:55:00 PM »
Heartbeat Jim reputedly parted out a Daytona Yellow 307 JL8 car......
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BULLITT65

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Re: HMM 1969 Camaro feature
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2018, 01:55:21 AM »
I was un-aware that almost all JL8 packages went to Z/28. I know of a guy that is restoring a 69 Camaro original 6 cylinder JL8 car that he says he purchased from the original owner. (Said the original owner used it for towing or something. ) He told me he is restoring it to stock specs. Was this possible?
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69Z28-RS

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Re: HMM 1969 Camaro feature
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2018, 02:36:04 AM »
The only things that would prevent having a JL8 in any '69 (built during the period they could have been installed) are the prerequisites required for the JL8 to be factory installed.   I don't recall reading any such prerequisites, although certainly the great majority of them would have been sold for/installed in Z28s since the primary purpose of each (the Z28 and the JL8) was SCCA type racing/autocrossing/etc...
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william

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Re: HMM 1969 Camaro feature
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2018, 03:02:05 AM »
JL8 was not listed in Camaro ordering info until the January 2nd revision. There was no pricing: Will Advise Price and Availability. Listings after that state: For use when Z/28 is ordered/For use when Camaro SS is ordered/For use when Camaro SS or Z/28 is not ordered. So looks like a 6 cylinder could be ordered with JL8.

The MSRP for JL8 w/o Z/28 or SS was $623.50, almost 10 x the price of power front discs. Must have really wanted them.
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KurtS

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Re: HMM 1969 Camaro feature
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2018, 04:06:28 AM »
I believe the L6 shows up in the JL8 spring combinations. But this is the first one I've ever heard of.
If you can get some data on it .....
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BULLITT65

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Re: HMM 1969 Camaro feature
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2018, 05:38:19 AM »
I talked to him a while back regarding some camaro parts. Let me see if I can dig him and get some info.
I can't say if its legit, since its just another guys camaro blather to me until docs or verification or other facts back it up.

Sounded like a special order for sure. I also thought who would go through the trouble of restoring a 6 cylinder to factor specs with a JL8 package.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

william

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Re: HMM 1969 Camaro feature
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2018, 07:01:28 PM »
Chevy option info back in the day was often inconsistent; you really had to read the fine print.

JL8 ordering info is really flaky. JL8 info for Canada initially listed "w/Camaro SS" and "w/o Camaro SS." By February it states "Z28 and G80 must be ordered." As of May 1, Camaro SS and w/o Camaro SS was added and states “…also includes F70 x 15 Fiberglass Belted White Stripe Tires.”

It may have been technically available, but that is no guarantee they built any. I can’t imagine a Chevy dealer ordering a 6 cylinder Camaro with JL8 without a huge deposit, maybe 100%.

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WorkinProgress

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Re: HMM 1969 Camaro feature
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2018, 09:10:17 PM »
What is the most you are going to tow with a 6 cylinder, a small sailboat? I cannot see anyone in this case, justifying paying the big bucks for the JL8 braking system, when skimping on Horsepower for towing.

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BULLITT65

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Re: HMM 1969 Camaro feature
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2018, 02:47:50 AM »
I have not verified the car by any means. I will see about getting more info.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

69Z28-RS

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Re: HMM 1969 Camaro feature
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2018, 02:51:23 AM »
What is the most you are going to tow with a 6 cylinder, a small sailboat? I cannot see anyone in this case, justifying paying the big bucks for the JL8 braking system, when skimping on Horsepower for towing.
                                                                       - Warren

I'd bet that 6cyl (esp if a 250 ci) has more low rpm TORQUE than a small block (certainly more than a 302 at 2k rpm).   MOST people don't TOW at 70-80 mph...  :)
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