Author Topic: Hello. I have a November 1969 Production Date Canadian Car info requested  (Read 21207 times)

x66 714

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My car came with transverse muffler & chrome tail pipes. No resonators. No place for them either. Header pipe goes from the exh manifold to the pipe that goes over the axle. I've been told that it's not the norm but is still original. 325hp 396 built 8/28/1969....Joe
See America's First, Chevrolet

1968 Z/28 Corvette Bronze. Black Hounds Tooth. 02E Los Angeles born 3/13/1968 pnt OO. Purchased March 1976
1969 SS396 Yellow/Yellow 08E Norwood born 8/28/1969 pnt 76E. Purchased April 1981

william

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No resonators. No place for them either.

Really?

Probably 100,000+ 67-69 Camaros built with the standard dual exhaust system had resonators. Most ZL1s had the standard N10 system; vintage undercarriage pics of #3 show the dual resonator/transverse muffler system. For '69 NC8 [chambered] was initially standard equipment on L34, L78, Z/28 until the 1st recall late November '68. At that time, L34 and L78 reverted to the standard N10 muffler/resonator system. Z/28 switched to the '68 deep-tone muffler/no resonator system until April '69 when the N10 system became standard. As of May 19th, NC8 was discontinued and chromed tailpipes became standard equipment on N10.

All this was documented in Assembly Instruction Manuals and Chevy Tech bulletins.
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mikea

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Wow.  Just read your thread on 1969 M22 breakdown of Quantities. I think I am starting to understand RPOs and then you blow my mind with these underlying ECL code combinations and possible permutations.  FU&K. I agree the data is so complex it would probably be misinterpreted.  However I don't know if that is a good reason not to publish the 'best guesses' and compilations of (extremely) knowledgeable people.  That would be better than simple conjecture without basis on fact.  I know data.  And Mcneish may be the data collection expert... But you forum gurus understand it best. 

SO.  William. What is your best guess on M22's?  For the L78?  There were seven installed in the ZL1.  That leaves 2110.   I would like to know what is your current database spread of M22s across the solid lifter engines?  I didn't realize until recently the M22 was NOT available to the SS396/350, SS396/325 and SS350

I sent more pictures to Kurt.  Not sure if it is enough to convince you fellas but I am extremely confident. She's real, she's pretty much original, and much love and care has been put into her.  He took 8 years restoring her.   The only non-matching part is the M22 which has been replaced properly. The vehicle came to Newfoundland in 1972, he is the fifth owner. We know all the previous owners and can trace the car from original sale. What else should I find out? I will take his word at this point all the remaining tags match.  Are there any verification services ie Mcneish available in Canada?  I will admit I had no idea HOW MANY fakes are out there.  And some don't care.  But we do.

So my end of day question is how to quantify (with available data/best guess) how many Orange - Orange RS SS X 22 D80 396 375 M22's are out there?  Can I say in a document, to all available knowledge inventories, and registries, there isn't another one like N711022 ?) I'm picky about my facts.  And appreciate you all are too.  Appreciate all the blurbs.  You guys know stuff that is not written anywhere.  Period.  Very impressive inferences.  Thanks again.  MA

69Z28-RS

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MikeA...   

Trying to quantify the numbers of cars which had a particular set of options is IMPOSSIBLE!   You can certainly say that he has a unusual combination of options, but to say 'ONLY ONE' would be conjecture and inaccurate.
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Kelley W King

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I think "one of one ?" is a Ford or Mopar term.
69 Z28 RS Scuncio Hi Performance
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BULLITT65

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I think "one of one ?" is a Ford or Mopar term.
Well with the Marti report on Fords, you can deffinetly see how rare a car is. And there are some special cars that are 1 of 1.

Mike: With all of the 60's muscle cars and all of the options that were available, you could switch one small option and then have another 1 of 1. With this car being Hugger orange (most popular color) I would say it is likely it is not 1 of 1.
More likely COPO cars when you look at all the options could be 1 of 1, because it was a relatively small batch of cars. Or even smaller the ZL-1, there may be no 2 cars that are exactly the same. 

While the 396-375 is a special car, they likely made larger proportion Hugger orange, just based off of color usage for the year. Then figure roughly 25% had the RS option. Just to put it in perspective.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
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-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

jdv69z

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I have never seen another 69 Z with the exact same combination of RS, garnet red, white vinyl, black std interior. Close, but never exact. 1 of 1?
Jimmy V.

william

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Seems like every sign or ad for a Ford or Mopar these days lists every option with the number produced. Who cares? Some options were rare because they were unpopular. Chevy produced very few L78 Camaros with the standard 3-speed transmission. Very rare but not desirable these days.

John De Lorean took over as Chevrolet's General Manager February 1969. Chevy was a mess and it was his job to get it back on track. One problem was far too many customer options and choices.

"Chevrolet cars soon had 15,000 parts, with a combination of body types, engine sizes, colors, axle ratios, and interior arrangements which was almost incalculable. We could build one million Chevrolets and not have two cars exactly alike."

So much for "one of one."
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68 Ragtop

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Seems like every sign or ad for a Ford or Mopar these days lists every option with the number produced. Who cares? Some options were rare because they were unpopular. Chevy produced very few L78 Camaros with the standard 3-speed transmission. Very rare but not desirable these days.

John De Lorean took over as Chevrolet's General Manager February 1969. Chevy was a mess and it was his job to get it back on track. One problem was far too many customer options and choices.

"Chevrolet cars soon had 15,000 parts, with a combination of body types, engine sizes, colors, axle ratios, and interior arrangements which was almost incalculable. We could build one million Chevrolets and not have two cars exactly alike."

So much for "one of one."


Exactly. I have seen many Marti reports on poster boards where they narrow it down with obscure options to one of one and exclaim, "And This Is That Car!"

This car the OP is discussing is pretty rare and very desirable, whether it is one of one or not.

mikea

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I've never read a Marti report.  Have never done research on any cars until now.  Not even a Ford.  And now I know more about the history of the 69 Camaro than any Ford. Ever.  I absolutely love my cousins 2018 ZL1-1LE.  Rather her than the vette anyday.  Looks waaaay better imho.

Ok.  What do you think about:

There were only about 4,889 1969 X22's built.  ?

MA


69Z28-RS

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I think "one of one ?" is a Ford or Mopar term.

I always think of such terms as 'Salesmen's terms'...  :)  (which cannot be proven)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
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68 Ragtop

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I've never read a Marti report.  Have never done research on any cars until now.  Not even a Ford.  And now I know more about the history of the 69 Camaro than any Ford. Ever.  I absolutely love my cousins 2018 ZL1-1LE.  Rather her than the vette anyday.  Looks waaaay better imho.

Ok.  What do you think about:

There were only about 4,889 1969 X22's built.  ?

MA



Here is an example of a 1 of 1 Marti report.
All you had to do was order something odd like pastel blue with medium ginger and boom, 1 of 1.



X22, and all of the X codes are not RPO codes. No way to tell how many X anything where produced. That's not how X codes work.

jdv69z

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Seems like every sign or ad for a Ford or Mopar these days lists every option with the number produced. Who cares? Some options were rare because they were unpopular. Chevy produced very few L78 Camaros with the standard 3-speed transmission. Very rare but not desirable these days.

John De Lorean took over as Chevrolet's General Manager February 1969. Chevy was a mess and it was his job to get it back on track. One problem was far too many customer options and choices.

"Chevrolet cars soon had 15,000 parts, with a combination of body types, engine sizes, colors, axle ratios, and interior arrangements which was almost incalculable. We could build one million Chevrolets and not have two cars exactly alike."

So much for "one of one."


Agreed. :)
Jimmy V.

william

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There were only about 4,889 1969 X22's built.  ?


X22 was an internal Fisher Body code used for part of the model year at Norwood. No Fisher docs exist to verify any of the X codes; over the years their meaning became apparent. X22 is a Camaro SS 396 with Z21 style trim group. RS equipment included Z21 so those also had X22 tags. A few early production COPOs also had X22 tags. Z10s & Z11s w/396 were not X22. The body tag and its information was not used by Chevrolet.

4,889 is the reported production total for Camaro SS with the L78 engine. It has been mis-stated for decades. COPO build records list the L78 engine so it is not accurate. There were 69 ZL1s and 997 L72 COPO Camaros built so the actual L78 total is 3,823.

I don't understand the 1/1 obsession. Some of the most valuable 1st Gen Camaros-COPOs-were ordered in batches. The 50 Gibb ZL1s were built in 5 groups of 10, 6 4-speeds and 4 automatics in Dusk Blue, Fathom Green, Cortez Silver, Le Mans Blue, Hugger Orange. A few years ago a collector paid $650,000 for a silver automatic Gibb ZL1 and I'm sure they knew there are 3 more just like it. Many Yenko Camaros were also ordered in batches; there were 10 Olympic Gold 4-speeds built, all the same.

Shelby Cobras, GT350s, very few of those are 1/1. Doesn't seem to matter. Some of the most valuable cars in the hobby.



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BULLITT65

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I didn't realize the ZL-1 cars were that similar, thank you for the clarity.

For all those outside the car hobby, who always ask "well how rare is it?", I think the owners of some these cars like to be able to see it is 1 of 1, or very rare, only one built in this configuration. The other option is the dealers who want to tout how special a car, to really reach the ears of a potential buyer.

Some guys eat this stuff up.

The honest truth :  I would purchase a Marti report for my 69 camaro or any other car I have if there was one available. It is neat information to have about your car. I would suspect many guys on this site would if the info was out there to purchase. Shoot I paid $50 just to find the selling dealer...(sucker?)

Now a days you want to find something rare? find a unmolested muscle car, or even a unmodified plain jane car (muscle car body) driving around.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV