Author Topic: "muscle car" without posi  (Read 6683 times)

bcmiller

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Re: "muscle car" without posi
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2018, 02:37:10 PM »
Ask 10 gear heads and you will probably get at least 7 different answers.

Some say the first muscle car was the 1949 Oldsmobile Rocket 88.

It’s tough to pin things down to a particular car. A late 50s Corvette with a 283 and “two fours” had plenty of muscle for the time. :)
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

69Z28-RS

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Re: "muscle car" without posi
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2018, 03:28:37 PM »
Bryon,

Anyone can use 'their own made updefinitions'... :)  ... but these terms are terms generated by the cars mags, and have a generally approved/used definition among that crowd (and most of us who read those magazines).   The term muscle car came about in the automotive press in the mid-late '60's... driven by lightweight cheap cars - roadrunners, chevelles, etc.. midsize lightweights with BIG motors, and the term is still used in the automotive press the same way.

If you want to refer to a 49 Oldsmobile as a 'muscle car', then go to it...  but I really doubt that you can reference ANY magazine article that refers to it that way (that this is not a cut of the 49 Olds- it was a good car for the time, but very heavy .. too heavy..  to be a muscle car).

Same with the early Corvette (regardless of the engine).   They were 'sports cars' (at least that's what Chevy/GM was TRYING to produce).. and way too expensive to be a muscle car.  Can you find a magazine article when these corvettes were new that refers to them as 'muscle cars'...?

Here is how they (the automotive press) define Pony Car: “An American class of automobile launched and inspired by the Ford Mustang in 1964. The term describes an affordable, compact, highly styled car with a sporty or performance-oriented image.” ... A Pony Car is small, and a Muscle Car is somewhere between mid-size and full size.May 8, 2014
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

cook_dw

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Re: "muscle car" without posi
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2018, 04:16:30 PM »

bcmiller

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Re: "muscle car" without posi
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2018, 04:29:23 PM »
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 07:56:28 PM by bcmiller »
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

69Z28-RS

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Re: "muscle car" without posi
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2018, 08:21:16 PM »
Bryon,

I read the carfax article but didn't agree very much with it...  and I've never considered 'carfax' or 'aaron turpen' as authorities on anything!  I doubt either were around even during the '70's... :)

If you believe that article, you'd undoubtedly consider anything with an engine to be a 'muscle car'...  example:  "....In 1957, though, another car many claim as the first true muscle car was introduced: the American Motors Rambler Rebel"!   *L*

I certainly never read/heard that one anywhere else...!

The Muscle Car 'era' was from the early 60's thru the early-mid '70's...  Find a real car magazine of that era that references any of the 'car fax' muscle cars... .as 'muscle cars'!  :)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

bcmiller

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Re: "muscle car" without posi
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2018, 10:59:29 PM »
Glad you aren’t an old dog that can’t learn new tricks.  ::)
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

69Z28-RS

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Re: "muscle car" without posi
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2018, 11:19:59 PM »
:)   me too!  :)     I surely don't need any 'new dogs like carfax' to redefine the terms we've used for 40 yrs..  :)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

bcmiller

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Re: "muscle car" without posi
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2018, 11:46:17 PM »
Muscle car terminology is subjective. Ask some old people.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

cook_dw

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Re: "muscle car" without posi
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2018, 11:47:06 PM »
.

Petes L48

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Re: "muscle car" without posi
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2018, 12:13:00 AM »
Let us not forget that the 79 Ford Pinto was posi-tively among the very first Mussel Cars!



https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/05/08/diver-ford-pinto-lake-michigan/582227002/


ko-lek-tor

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Re: "muscle car" without posi
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2018, 12:26:44 AM »
Let us not forget that the 79 Ford Pinto was posi-tively among the very first Mussel Cars!



https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/05/08/diver-ford-pinto-lake-michigan/582227002/


Wow, they finally found a good use for the Pinto?!
James to strangers, Bentley to friends
1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 owned since 79
1969 SS 350 coupe LeMans Blue 713 bought in 79(sold)
1969 D.H.COPO replica 4spd. 4.10 posi coupe Daytona Yellow 711 owned since 85

69Z28-RS

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Re: "muscle car" without posi
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2018, 03:34:33 AM »
and Everybody knows the pinto is/was a real pearl...  :)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

hihorse

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Re: "muscle car" without posi
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2018, 03:46:16 PM »
IMO, Muscle car is a complete intimidating package, drivetrain must include big motor, Muncie/400 and big posi rear. Cant see any  "muscle car" on one leg as being intimidating. Why would anybody not check  off posi when ordering?

bcmiller

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Re: "muscle car" without posi
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2018, 03:53:06 PM »
You have to realize not every car was ordered by a customer. Some were just for stock on the lot. SS did not require a posi, and Z28s didn’t either until into the 69 model year. 
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

Vince

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Re: "muscle car" without posi
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2018, 03:55:49 PM »
I don't know if it was just within my group of buddies in college and after or a general term that others used, but I remember back in the day (very early '70's) we referred to high performance cars as super cars.  I don't remember muscle cars used as a reference until maybe 1980's or '90's.  That being said I have always considered the 1964 GTO as the first super or muscle car; a mid-size car with a medium or big block high performance engine, stripped with very few if any options and no luxury features.  The 1968 Roadrunner would be a good example of a true muscle car.  Corvettes have always been sports cars.  For me the hardest distinction is for the Mustang, Camaro, Firebird, Cougar, Challenger, Cuda, Javelin cars.  In one way I would group them all as pony cars because of their size and layout, long front deck and short rear.  But a car like a Boss 429, COPO Camaro, 440 6 pack Challenger, or hemi Cuda seems to fit under muscle car rather than pony car.  Maybe it all depends on the size of the engine in it.  Then there is the AMX.  Sports car or pony car or muscle car?  We could go on and on.   

 

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