Rear Axle Brake Line Clip PN# 3956700

[Edgemontvillage]

I'm reassembling the 12 bolt differential from my 1969 2B build Norwood RS/Z and trying to confirm the correct rear cover brake hose clip and fastener. There is a CRG thread on a related topic but it doesn' specifically address the clip ( http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=3123.msg20270#msg20270 ). After researching the Rear Axle Brake Line Clip PN 3956700 I can't locate a photo of a similar one to compare with and the typical (HBC) repop is different and doesn't spec a bolt or washer. I'm confident that neither the diff or rear brake line have previously been out of the car or worked on as the car was sidelined in the 70's with just 22K miles and has the tell-tale signs of not being messed with including the original single-crimp rear brake line etc. My brake line clip uses a non-captured washer and non-shouldered bolt (see photos). It also has the presence of blue dye typical of frame located brake line clamps. I would appreciate opinions on originality

Brake Clip prior to diff removal and disassembly


by
Presence of blue dye on clip (similar to brake line clips used on the frame rails), large washer and non-shouldered bolt



HBC Repop Clip
 
Original Single Crimp Brake Hose
 

[169INDY]

Here is a sample I can offer;
1969 04C Z11 LOS Car

Jim

Edit deleted repeat wording & corrected year type-o (JFW 6/3/18)

[Edgemontvillage]

Here is a sample I can offer;
1969 04C Z11 LOS Car

Jim

Thanks Jim, entirely different design that my example. Seems there is an air gap between the line and the clip, almost resembles a front brake hose clip.

[HawkX66]

Here is my original Lloyd. Sorry for the poor picture details. ~46 years of New England road grime. If I can remember before I move, I'll try to climb under there and get a pic of it now after I restored it.

[Edgemontvillage]

Thanks Dave, would appreciate a post-restoration "after" photo if you have the time and opportunity. From what I can see, the same (as 11) shouldered bold is used and the clip appears to be similar to the HBC repop with flared/eased edges. 

[luv2sixty9]

Lloyd,
Your clip I have seen before on a couple of Camaros, but its not the normal clip used. The Heartbeat City clip is the correct style. Dave

[Edgemontvillage]

Lloyd,
Your clip I have seen before on a couple of Camaros, but its not the normal clip used. The Heartbeat City clip is the correct style. Dave

Dave, thanks for your input. Its becoming clear the clip is not typical however I'd sure like to see photos of other diffs of the period that used it.

[x66 714]

I'm trying to contact a friend that has a 01B car. Mine should match Hawks but I will check today or tomorrow. My 68 should look like yours but I will check that also. Both of my cars have stock exhaust so seeing them might be difficult.
Isn't JohnZ car from that date? Who has it now?....Joe

[Edgemontvillage]

I'm trying to contact a friend that has a 01B car. Mine should match Hawks but I will check today or tomorrow. My 68 should look like yours but I will check that also. Both of my cars have stock exhaust so seeing them might be difficult.
Isn't JohnZ car from that date? Who has it now?....Joe

Joe, I believe JohnZ's car is a 2D build date however would certainly like to know which brake clip was installed.

[x66 714]

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=14666.0

This is a car Steve Shauger either has or had. It's an 02b car....Joe

[Edgemontvillage]

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=14666.0

This is a car Steve Shauger either has or had. It's an 02b car....Joe

I reviewed the linked thread however wasn't able to locate any photos of the brake line clip - where is it shown?

[x66 714]

It's not. I was just thinking you could contact him....Joe

[HOT3O2]

Lloyd,  This is the retainer / clip from my 12B VN Car.

[BillOhio]

This is on my 03D. I dont remember changing it

[Edgemontvillage]

Lloyd,  This is the retainer / clip from my 12B VN Car.

Rick, thanks for posting, it appears very similar to mine, I'm beginning to believe these were frame mount brakeline clips that were used - on occasion.

[Edgemontvillage]

This is on my 03D. I dont remember changing it

Bill, definitely the more popular clip. I assume it was painted at some point as I've not come across examples where they were painted with on diff. 

[x66 714]

My 69 is like Hawks but both of our cars are real late 69s. I'm thinking it's an early/late. The clip was gone from my friend's 1B car. Maybe more will talk about what's on their cars. Been a long time since I had a 10 bolt car. I wonder if they're the same?....Joe

[BillOhio]

I painted mine. The rest of mine were either blue and  i think a small one on subframe was green. What finish should this be

[Edgemontvillage]

I painted mine. The rest of mine were either blue and  i think a small one on subframe was green. What finish should this be

Bill, my research continues however it seems the original finish for the style of clip on your car was either natural steel or clear (silver) zinc.

[BillOhio]

Might just have to take the paint off. Thanks Lloyd

[Hans L]

Lloyd -

Is this the clip you're referring to?  Note the stampings. 








I don't have an axle picture stored in Photobucket yet - I'll load some up tonight with it installed and confirm its the right clip. 

[Edgemontvillage]

Great photos Hans, the stamping detail is interesting. This style is the most typical and possibly a standard. Many thanks for posting.

[Hans L]

Here's some more Lloyd -

As found during clean-up and disassembly:



Close-up of bracket before cleaning.  My assumption was it was either natural or clear zinc but it might have been painted or had overspray on it.   I went with natural for the restoration.



You can sorta see the stampings on this pic


Restored & Installed:

[x66 714]

Hans. What is the build date on that one?.....Joe

[Hans L]

Joe -

04B.  LA  (Van Nuys) built.

Hans

[Edgemontvillage]

Anyone else have a photo of an original diff clip to post? Would like to see a few more examples to fill out the thread now and for future reference.

[Hans L]

Lloyd -

I checked the '69 AIM for the rear axle, page 65.  It appears there was a production change to the clip - see note "17".    Unfortunately, the copy quality of the AIM is poor and I can't make out the date when the change happened.   I also checked the '68 AIM, but I couldn't quite make out the clip used but something definitely changed between '68 and '69 as the engineering drawings changed.

So it's very likely the clip on your rear axle is the original production clip which appears to be the same as the other translucent blue brake line clips.

Hans

[Hans L]

Here's the AIM section for reference - I can't make out the production date change in the notes block though

[JKZ27]

Lloyd, here is mine. 12B Norwood SS.

John

[Edgemontvillage]

Lloyd, here is mine. 12B Norwood SS.

John

Thanks for posting John, your clip appears to be another variant. Green rather than clear zinc or blue (per mine) and and open center. Hmmm.

[Edgemontvillage]

Lloyd -

I checked the '69 AIM for the rear axle, page 65.  It appears there was a production change to the clip - see note "17".    Unfortunately, the copy quality of the AIM is poor and I can't make out the date when the change happened.   I also checked the '68 AIM, but I couldn't quite make out the clip used but something definitely changed between '68 and '69 as the engineering drawings changed.

So it's very likely the clip on your rear axle is the original production clip which appears to be the same as the other translucent blue brake line clips.

Hans

Hans, I’m reasonably confident based on the evidence that my diff and the rear brake lines had never been apart or serviced and therefore assembly-line original. The blue dyed brake line clip used appears to be one of 4 variants posted here.  Is it possible the diff-specific clip (per yours) and standard in-line brake clips were interchangeably used? Would sure like to see more original examples.

[69Z28-RS]

You fellas are getting my interest up..    I'll check mine and post a photo...

Gary

[Edgemontvillage]

You fellas are getting my interest up..    I'll check mine and post a photo...

Gary

That's the spirit Gary!

[x66 714]

I'll be in the Phx area on Saturday looking at Camaro parts. I'll see what he has laying around. The bracket most likely would be on a 10 bolt also. I tried to read that page information that was posted from the AIMs manual. It looks as though the bracket changed sometime in 1969...Joe

[69Z28-RS]

I remembered and got under my car tonight, jacked it up, put the rear on stands, and lowered the rear ... got under it with my camera, but couldn't get a great view of the clip... so I dug thru my 'cleanup' photos and found 2 or 3 with a view of the clip...

[Hans L]

Hans, I’m reasonably confident based on the evidence that my diff and the rear brake lines had never been apart or serviced and therefore assembly-line original. The blue dyed brake line clip used appears to be one of 4 variants posted here.  Is it possible the diff-specific clip (per yours) and standard in-line brake clips were interchangeably used? Would sure like to see more original examples.

Agree.  I see no reason to believe its not original, especially since the other brake line clips are original.   My best guess, based on #17 on the rear axle cutaway View C for the HD Axle drawing on page  65 of the AIM, is that for whatever reason there was a mid-year production change.  Unfortunately, in the notes block below where the #17 is referenced in the revision block, the actual date of the change is not legible.

Have you figured out yet a way to replicate the translucent blue dye on the brake line clips??

[Edgemontvillage]

Hans, I’m reasonably confident based on the evidence that my diff and the rear brake lines had never been apart or serviced and therefore assembly-line original. The blue dyed brake line clip used appears to be one of 4 variants posted here.  Is it possible the diff-specific clip (per yours) and standard in-line brake clips were interchangeably used? Would sure like to see more original examples.

Agree.  I see no reason to believe its not original, especially since the other brake line clips are original.   My best guess, based on #17 on the rear axle cutaway View C for the HD Axle drawing on page  65 of the AIM, is that for whatever reason there was a mid-year production change.  Unfortunately, in the notes block below where the #17 is referenced in the revision block, the actual date of the change is not legible.

Have you figured out yet a way to replicate the translucent blue dye on the brake line clips??

Hans, I haven’t tackled the blue dye challenge as yet. Chick did some good trailblazing on this during his 68Z restoration project however I may try some additional techniques. Do you have some ideas?

[Hans L]

Lloyd - Well, I tried a bunch of different angles, including the Dykem dyes (too dark, didn't stain well).  I called various platters, no luck.  I tried reproductions (color way off and the clips aren't even close).   Finally, I went into a Hobby/Craft store and they had Testors 1257 Translucent Blue.  Intended to paint model airplane cockpit glass...so I said, what the heck and gave it a try.    I just dusted the clips with the spray paint and found it to be visually pretty close.   So that's what I ended up doing.  Not factory correct, but optically, I'm reasonably pleased - though ideally I would have preferred a true translucent metal dye.   Let us know if you find a better option!
 



Here's a comparison:


All the clips, based my observations of the color after cleaning - some clear zinc, some yellow zinc, some black zinc, and finally translucent blue



Installed

[69Z28-RS]

If you want your 'blue' to be more translucent, you might try thinning it down before dipping the clip in it...?

My original rear end clip showed no signs of 'blue' on my late 09C Z28 . 

Note:  The brake line clips intended for plugging into holes in the frame (to position and hold the clips/line in place) would not seem to be appropriate for the differential since no such holes exist!

[Edgemontvillage]

This brake line clip is from my shop partner's (PaulOlds) 1968 Z/28 (Norwood, April build). The car was raced extensively by its previous owner so I was surprised to see the clip was still there and hadn't been tossed. The diff was painted at some point along with the clip.



 

[ZLP955]

Just checked my car, and it's 0319-dated 12 bolt has exactly the same clip as the one Hans pictured, it also appears to have the same stamping (although can't be sure without removing it, was lying on my back with a flashlight....).

[Edgemontvillage]

Just checked my car, and it's 0319-dated 12 bolt has exactly the same clip as the one Hans pictured, it also appears to have the same stamping (although can't be sure without removing it, was lying on my back with a flashlight....).

"was lying on my back with a flashlight...."   Thanks Tim - the things we do for the hobby!

[ZLP955]

..... and on a cold frosty morning, I elected to not linger on the concrete floor!

[Edgemontvillage]

I posted a Parts Wanted ad on SYC for a clip in mint condition which I haven't located yet however for reference I'm adding the following photos that were posted:

[Hans L]

I posted a Parts Wanted ad on SYC for a clip in mint condition which I haven't located yet however for reference I'm adding the following photos that were posted:

Interesting - have you decided not to use the clip found on the rear axle on your car and instead go with the a "technically correct" clip?   Curious to why if that's the case as I was reasonably convinced your clip on the rear axle was original. 

[Edgemontvillage]

Hans, good question. As the car will be judged I don’t want to defend a seemingly “non-normative” part or worse take a points deduction and be informed of that deduction once judging results are received following the event with no ability to appeal (see Chick’s judging experience). In the Camaro hobby there are no judging guides/manuals so we rely on the knowlege of individual judges. To de-risk judging, where I have found non standard parts (or finishes etc) that I believe to be original (another example is the wheel well plugs) I have decided to replace them with the generally accepted standard part. Replacing the brake line clip is an example of that approach.

[ZLP955]

Lloyd, just noticed a BU rear listed on ebay, has a frame-mounting type of retainer clip in this location - similar to the one Rick (HOT302) posted back on page 1....... although it's not bolted up.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-1969-Camaro-Z28-L78-BU-12-Bolt-Posi-Rear-End/202357847578

[Edgemontvillage]

Lloyd, just noticed a BU rear listed on ebay, has a frame-mounting type of retainer clip in this location - similar to the one Rick (HOT302) posted back on page 1....... although it's not bolted up.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-1969-Camaro-Z28-L78-BU-12-Bolt-Posi-Rear-End/202357847578

Thanks Tim. For the sake of another data point I'm adding photos of the eBay listed diff. The seller ( BDCAMARO ) states "Original 1969 Camaro Z28 L78 BU 12 Bolt Posi Rear End All original as it came on the GM assembly line...with original dated GM 3:73 gears and Eaton position unit....". IMO the diff appears reasonably original except maybe the axle vent.

 

[Edgemontvillage]

Here is an original clip (now restored) that I located for my project:

[Hans L]

Nice!   What sort of finish did you apply to the clip?

[Edgemontvillage]

Nice!   What sort of finish did you apply to the clip?

The clip was vapor blasted, so its unplated steel, then treated with rust preventative like Boeshield.