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Author Topic: 69 X77 code Camaro Many fact questions.  (Read 9989 times)
ckresto
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« on: November 24, 2005, 10:59:03 AM »

1)  When I paint the front fenders, what color is the inside supposed to be?  Black, car color, or oversprayed on?
2)  I have power steering and don't know what all is involved with the quick ratio steering.  Is it just the box, or is the pitman arm and steering
     nuckles different?
3)  What kind of trim goes with the X77?  Is there chrome on the headlight rings, and tailights?  As well as the rear fender louvers, etc..
4)  The car is Fathom Green.  Is it leagal to use bleack stripes instead of white?
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JohnZ
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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2005, 11:32:23 AM »

The inner surfaces of the front fenders are semi-gloss black primer. X77 is base car exterior trim - no drip rail molding, wheel opening moldings, rear quarter louvers, etc. Fathom Green Z/28's had white stripes.
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'69 Z/28
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william
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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2005, 12:22:47 PM »

Z/28 standard fast-ratio steering was acomplished by steering linkage changes. The standard manual steering gear was utilized with a longer pitman arm and shorter steering arms.

Z/28s ordered with N44 [very few] also had a fast-ratio manual steering gear. It makes for miserable driving.

All 1969 Camaros with power steering used the same steering gear. Z/28s & SS so equipped used the fast ratio linkage pieces. A Z/28 with ps will have a pump with a deep groove pulley.
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GaryL
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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2005, 10:49:48 PM »

The inner surfaces of the front fenders are semi-gloss black primer. X77 is base car exterior trim - no drip rail molding, wheel opening moldings, rear quarter louvers, etc. Fathom Green Z/28's had white stripes.
JohnZ, just a clarification, but doesn't the inner flange of the fender where the hood hinges bolt on get painted body color? And the inner fender get painted black?
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Gary

Lemans Blue X33. DZ, M20, manual steering. Only BU code rear end is original.
JohnZ
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2005, 11:05:58 AM »

Yes - all the visible fender surfaces are body color; the non-visible underside/back side of the fenders will only show light overspray. The separate inner fender was dip-primed or flow-coated semi-gloss black and was assembled to the outer fender long after the outer sheet metal was painted.
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'69 Z/28
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waynechipman
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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2005, 02:33:49 AM »

Sorry to disagree with some of the above info. But SS and Z/28 cars did use a different power steering gearbox, the quick ratio steering was not in the linkage but in how many turns lock to lock. It should have 2 and a quarter turns to be a quick ratio steering box. If not then it is not a quick ratio steering setup.
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Mark
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« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2005, 10:44:46 AM »

Theres only one power steering gear box used in Camaros power steering was RPO N40 and consisted of a power steering pump and short steering arms on the wheels.  It could be ordered on any camaro.  RPO N44 added the longer pitman arm shaft on the steering gear box which gave you the 2 1/4 turn lock to lock steering.  RPO N44 was an additional option over and above the RPO N40 power steering option.

RPO N44 Manual steering consisted of a different sector gear in the steering box than what was used for the standard manual steering box, in addition to the longer pitman arms and shorter steering arms.
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Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
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waynechipman
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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2005, 03:24:37 PM »

Still have to quite disagree on that, the SS and Z/28 cars came with a quick ratio steering box. 2 and a quarter turns compared to up to four turns or so on plain jane and other cars. Now think about it for a little bit and do you really think a longer or shorter pitman arm is going to make a drastic change in lock to lock turns. unless maybe you you can fabricate some oddball really long pitman arm. Draw it out on paper if you need to see the lever principle in action. The turns lock to lock is dictated inside the steering box not by the length of pitman arm. One of you Camaro guys out there has to know this also.
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waynechipman
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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2005, 03:33:42 PM »

Oh and by the way the quick ratio steering makes for a much more pleasureable driving experiance. Unless you like to take a quarter mile to change lanes on the freeway.
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william
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« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2005, 06:22:46 PM »

Nope, about 99.99% of 1969 Camaros used the same manual or power steering gear. If you ordered N44 on a non-SS/Z/28 the only difference was the longer pitman/shorter steering arms. Drum brake N44 cars received different backing plates.

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waynechipman
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« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2005, 08:37:22 PM »

So the qick ratio ones had different spindles with shorter arms then. if thats the case I stand corrected.
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waynechipman
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« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2005, 10:39:40 AM »

OK so can you order spindles with shorter steering arms I never see that addressed on any adds. If you cannot buy them then that is another good and quick way to spot a Z/28 clone. Im glad mine is mostly original. I have a lead on my original tranny I dont know if its going to pan out or not. If not I keep hunting for a dated case. im still trying to trace the previous owners back to the begining.
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william
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« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2005, 01:19:31 PM »

First gen Camaros have what GM identified as a "steering knuckle" same L-R. The steering arms bolted to the knuckles. I believe 2nd gens have a 1-pc assembly.
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JohnZ
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« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2005, 01:15:51 PM »

The spindle/steering knuckle, steering arm, hub, rotor, bearings, and caliper were received as a complete assembly; J52 power disc brake cars (except Z/28) used P/N 3954867-8 assemblies, and the Z/28's (which had J52 as a mandatory option) used P/N 3954869-70, which were identical except for shorter steering arms bolted to the knuckle.  Smiley
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'69 Z/28
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waynechipman
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« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2005, 01:53:43 PM »

Learn something new every day. Sorry for my wrong information. A whole lot of people out there believe the steering gears were different for quick ratio, that was including myself, what You say makes sense, I will have to crawl under mine to check it out. My steering whell turns 2 and barely over an eighth turns lock to lock. Although I hadn't went as far as checking my spindles evrything lookes fine but I haven.t delved into looking close Yet. Again I apologize for my previous statements
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Tinkerr
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« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2005, 02:53:47 AM »

heres a web sight that is quite informative on camaro steering power and strong arm.    http://www.pozziracing.com/camaro_steering.htm
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David Pozzi
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« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2006, 03:56:39 AM »

Learn something new every day. Sorry for my wrong information. A whole lot of people out there believe the steering gears were different for quick ratio, that was including myself, what You say makes sense, I will have to crawl under mine to check it out. My steering whell turns 2 and barely over an eighth turns lock to lock. Although I hadn't went as far as checking my spindles evrything lookes fine but I haven.t delved into looking close Yet. Again I apologize for my previous statements

John,
Does this mean the Z/28's had steering knuckle arms shorter than all other Camaros?
Can you verify that Z/28's had faster power steering ratios than all other Camaros?

I have heard about a Z/28 only "Special Fast" steering that was faster than the normal Camaro N44 steering. I'm looking for doccumentation.
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william
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« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2006, 01:40:14 PM »

69 Z/28 and SS cars built with N40 had the same ratio acomplished by a longer pitman arm and shorter steering arms. There was only 1 power steering gear used for all 1969 Camaros.

Z/28 equipment included fast ratio steering, again acomplished by linkage changes. The gear was the same manual gear used on any other non-ps Camaro. Apparently it was possible to order a Z/28 with N44 for an even faster ratio; I have seen it on a Z/28 window sticker and assume it is the 17:1 gear mentioned in the Jan 1970 Car Life article on the Penske Camaros. Why anyone would want that escapes me. Standard manual steering is bad enough.
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David Pozzi
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« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2006, 02:13:18 PM »

William,
There was a special manual box that was very fast. I have a 67 SS350  with manual steering, long pitman, shortest outer arms, it has just over 2.25 turns lock to lock.!

I've read that the Z/28 when ordered with N40/ N44 fast Power steering either came with steering that was even faster, or optional "Special fast" steering.

Below is what was available for 1969 N40/N44  Camaros.  What might be missing is, that regular camaros got "Standard" non-variable PS probably 17 to 1, then ratio 1 was the regular N40/N44, number 2 was a Z/28 ONLY option, - the SPECIAL FAST ratio. Does this sound right?  I think GM only used variable ratio steering boxes as optional equipment, not standard equipment.

   1. REGULAR VARIABLE POWER STEERING 1969, N40-N44,1969-16.1:1 on center, 12.4:1 off center, 15.5:1 overall
    2. N44 FAST VARIABLE RATIO POWER STEERING N40-N44, 1969 16.1:1 on center, 12.4:1 off center, 14.3:1 overall  (Z/28 only?)
« Last Edit: February 19, 2006, 02:39:47 PM by David Pozzi » Logged
KurtS
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« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2006, 12:53:10 AM »

In 69 Camaros, all with PS has the variable ratio box. There was no non-variable box available.

I'll have to dig on the other stuff.
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Kurt S
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David Pozzi
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« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2006, 01:12:22 AM »

Kurt,
Thanks,   Back when these cars were new, I read that when you ordered Power Steering on a Z/28, there was not only the N44 but a "special fast" N44. Now years later I have a couple of pages from  the GM parts book and info gathered from the forums that cannot confirm any such thing.   There was a fast ratio manual steering supposedly only for the Z/28, but I have a 67 SS350  that has the same fast steering, it's not a Z/28 - only option, apparently. The lock to lock for this 67 is just over 2.25 turns.
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