Author Topic: Adding a non-gauge console? (Read 18406 times)

bheston · « **on:** March 17, 2018, 11:14:44 AM »

Hello,

I have a very original 69 SS that has no console. This is a 4-speed car. I don’t want to add the gauge console because I don’t want to make too many non-reversible changes. However, I would like to add a non-gauge console. Has anyone done this and do you think it was worth the effort or just damages the originality?

z28z11 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2018, 11:51:39 PM »

It will take three holes drilled in the tunnel to add the console - two forward for the front mounting bracket, and one for the rear mounting Rivnut that secures the back end of the console to the tunnel. Add the rear courtesy light wiring and you're done. Carpeting change would not be required, only cutting the carpet to clear the front bracket and for the through hole in the rear. Easy to do, doesn't really take away from the car IMO, only then if absolute originality or adherence to the documentation of the car as it was optioned is your theme. If that is the case, leave it as a non-console car.

Regards,
Steve

ko-lek-tor · « **Reply #2 on:** March 17, 2018, 11:56:26 PM »

Personally, If this car was ordered with a performance drivetrain, i.e. solid lifter big block, I would leave it as original as possible. That being the case the lack of options could indicate the car was intended to race. On the other hand, if it is a 350 car or possibly even a q-jet bb, I would not have any problem doing this addition. Depending how correct a swap you are willing to do, because there is a rear console light on a stick, you would need a different dash harness. If that light function can be overlooked , then the swap becomes easier. You could also run your own wiring from the light to the door switch to come on when either door opens. Besides the complete console needed ( including front metal mounting bracket) there may be a couple of holes to drill. All my cars are console cars so I wil have to defer to others as to mounting. The last thing would be a duct extension to bring floor heat over to the driver side. My reply was done at the same time Steve above , so may have some redundancy.

Kelley W King · « **Reply #3 on:** March 19, 2018, 11:10:12 AM »

My Z has no console. I get a lot of comments at the shows about it being a non console car. If you do the swap the shifter ball is different also.

Stingr69 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 19, 2018, 02:22:51 PM »

I added a tach/clock/console and gauges with the gauge harness and the extension harness. Not difficult and can be easliy reversed (just plug and play) if needed. The courtesy light is part of that harness so it works as original. The front mount is held in place with nuts that are difficult to reach when the transmission is installed. Rear mount was rivnut originally but a large sheet metal screw into the floor will also work. Console helps keep the seat belts located and the storage is nice to have. I probably would not add one again. It takes up space and makes working on the car a little but harder. I Don't love it but it does look good. Hope this helps.

BULLITT65 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 19, 2018, 04:14:38 PM »

Both my 69's are factory 4 speed cars, and neither has a a console. What are the chances right?
But, as Bentley says if a guy was building a car for speed, maybe he opted to have speed shop gauges and skip the extra frills.
I personally like the console gauges and the chrome shifter ball myself, just not enough to add them.
If you like the look of the console, go for it, just try to do it as clean as possible, so if you want to change it back you can.

Have fun!

KurtS · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2018, 04:02:05 AM »

Almost all the cars at shows have a console. No console is different.
I wouldn't have one just to have it - not much storage and it gets in the way. 68/69 consoles are more fragile than 67's, btw.

bheston · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2018, 11:15:44 AM »

The non-console is starting to grow on me. Here is the "naked" floor:

x66 714 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2018, 11:21:45 AM »

Looks clean with no console....Joe

Kelley W King · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2018, 12:28:13 PM »

I agree with Joe, I wonder if there is any information on how many cars came with the console option? Of course it probably would not take into account that a lot of them were automatic cars since the column shift seems to be a little rare. When you go to a show almost all have consoles but back in the 70,s and 80,s most cars I had (GTO,s and Chevelles included) did not. I remember a popular mod being the Hurst shift boot which did not really fit console cars.

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2018, 02:11:54 PM »

Quote from: KurtS on March 20, 2018, 04:02:05 AM

Almost all the cars at shows have a console. No console is different.
I wouldn't have one just to have it - not much storage and it gets in the way. 68/69 consoles are more fragile than 67's, btw.

That's just because all the big-butted gals wanted to ride in our '69's... on the console...

Kelley W King · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2018, 02:43:42 PM »

Must be why most of them are cracked.

HawkX66 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2018, 04:33:45 PM »

If my 69 weren't a console car, I wouldn't want one in it. I love the look of it without one. Here's what mine looked like when I was installing the carpet and before I re-installed the console.

BULLITT65 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2018, 05:36:42 PM »

Sorry man, you guys must be on glue or something. ??

The console with gauges has got to be one of the coolest options they offered on Camaro. I would say its right up there with the ZL-2 hood, if measuring the cool factor.

If you had a serious track car, sure mechanical gauges was the way to go. But as far as factory gauges go, I think the console with gauges was a big winner for Chevrolet because it looked so cool. I think the console in general gives any car more of a cockpit type feel (like a jet) back then.

if I was ordering a 69 Camaro back then I would have checked the box for it with the gauges.

(Maybe this is a situation of the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence?...

)

z28z11 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 21, 2018, 01:42:07 AM »

Quote from: Kelley W King on March 20, 2018, 02:43:42 PM

Must be why most of them are cracked.

Amen. Didn't take a very large one, either. They'll bust right behind the console door, then ahead of the door.

z28z11 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 21, 2018, 01:50:04 AM »

I do believe I would nix the console - that's an awfully pretty interior with the floor shift/no console.

My L78 car is a non - console, or was - Rivnut never installed. Tunnel was cut for an aftermarket shifter, which I have to fix, but it will go back as a non-console car. I hope it looks as good as yours -

Regards,
Steve

Are you totally sure this car never had a console ? Tunnel was dimpled, not drilled through, and there was a dimple to locate the Rivnut. If there are holes there, it was an original console car. Only way to tell for sure is the look underneath the carpet and/or the underside of the tunnel. Just asking -

x66 714 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 21, 2018, 02:06:44 AM »

Quote from: HawkX66 on March 20, 2018, 04:33:45 PM

If my 69 weren't a console car, I wouldn't want one in it. I love the look of it without one. Here's what mine looked like when I was installing the carpet and before I re-installed the console.

Nice job on the carpet. I always tried to match the factory cuts. It always looked frumpy. I won't me doing it like that this time...Joe

169INDY · « **Reply #17 on:** March 21, 2018, 02:32:35 AM »

To the Original Poster;
I have never added a console w/ gauges; However I would Add one "IF" I had a non Console Car, the various retailers offer many kits for conversion. It will be intrusive; interference, carpet, wiring, senders, sheet-metal mods holes, etc. Then the inevitable troubleshooting challenges. I imagine it will be a fair bit of work with gauges (simpler w/o gauges). I considered adding gauges to my existing console cars and have always felt the same as the non console vs console car positions presented here. Wanting to preserve the originality factor.
So thinking about it I seem to remember that over at Camaros.net there is a thread on just such a conversion console w/gauges, others might be able to locate the link on that Clunky ad riddled site. ( I am a bit frustrated at the commercial segment on that other site.) Possibly that thread would have tips and info that would be helpful.

Either way with or without Console this is subjective similar to the ever lasting spoiler debate.

Jim

HawkX66 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 21, 2018, 12:04:32 PM »

Quote from: x66 714 on March 21, 2018, 02:06:44 AM

Quote from: HawkX66 on March 20, 2018, 04:33:45 PM
If my 69 weren't a console car, I wouldn't want one in it. I love the look of it without one. Here's what mine looked like when I was installing the carpet and before I re-installed the console.

Nice job on the carpet. I always tried to match the factory cuts. It always looked frumpy. I won't me doing it like that this time...Joe

Thanks a lot. I did spend a lot more time on it than I thought I would have to. In the end, I think the time was well spent. The only thing I did differently from factory were the cuts where the seat mounts and the front of the console. I cut the carpet close enough to the mount points that you can't tell that it's cut when the seat and the front console mounts are mounted. In the end, not wrinkles so I was happy.

KurtS · « **Reply #19 on:** March 21, 2018, 04:06:35 PM »

btw, your car shouldn't have woodgrain on the passenger side dash. That's only deluxe interior.

BULLITT65 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 21, 2018, 04:10:56 PM »

Your column and steering wheel should be red as well along with the dividers on either side of the center pod above the steering wheel.

bheston · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2018, 08:24:48 PM »

What's the difference between "Deluxe Interior" and "Special Interior Group - Wood Grain" that is called out on the window sticker?

x66 714 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 21, 2018, 11:13:55 PM »

Deluxe interior has molded door panels & either a comfort weave inserted seats or hounds tooth cloth inserted seats.

Special interior includes assist grip on passenger side above glove box, Wood grained steering wheel accents. & bright pedal trim

Special interior is included with deluxe interior.....Joe

KurtS · « **Reply #23 on:** March 22, 2018, 05:09:55 AM »

http://www.camaros.org/interior.shtml#CustomSpecialInterior

bheston · « **Reply #24 on:** March 22, 2018, 10:01:17 AM »

Thanks - great info!

bheston · « **Reply #25 on:** March 27, 2018, 04:57:42 PM »

I'm reviewing the "plan" to install a non-gauge console. I want to make sure it is: 1) done correctly per the AIM and 2) it's reasonably reversible. I see four holes I would need to drill. The front two look reasonable but the back two require a "special nut" - 3792287. Was that nut a split nut like the picture below? The diagrams also included below show the special nut and part number.

HawkX66 · « **Reply #26 on:** March 27, 2018, 06:32:50 PM »

No, they were not a split nut. They're called a "rivnut."

My factory one:

169INDY · « **Reply #27 on:** March 27, 2018, 07:31:49 PM »

Check for availability at McMaster-Carr
Steel Rivet Nuts

About twice as strong as aluminum rivet nuts, these steel rivet nuts are zinc plated for mild corrosion resistance. Also known as blind inserts, they can be installed when you have access to only one side of the material. Install in a drilled hole using a rivet nut tool. The tool collapses the nut, creating a backside flange that holds the nut to the material. Length is measured from under the flange. Installed length is the maximum length of the barrel when installed

<above cut & paste from McMaster>

JIM

Mike S · « **Reply #28 on:** March 27, 2018, 07:32:05 PM »

Dave,

Is that rough cut factory?

Mike

HawkX66 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 27, 2018, 07:35:28 PM »

Quote from: Mike S on March 27, 2018, 07:32:05 PM

Dave,

Is that rough cut factory?

Mike

The 4 speed hole? Yes, that's factory cut.

BULLITT65 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 27, 2018, 07:38:42 PM »

I think most are a rough cut like that. Surprising they didn't have a template, jig, or something to make it clean and uniform. Seems like it would have taken more time with the ragged cut.

Mike S · « **Reply #31 on:** March 27, 2018, 08:03:51 PM »

My 67 has a nice stamped opening with a reinforced band spot welded around it for the shifter boot to screw into.
I guess it was cheaper to rough cut it afterwards. I'm surprised GM just didn't punch the opening and leave off the spot welded band.

Mike

bheston · « **Reply #32 on:** March 27, 2018, 08:34:18 PM »

Quote from: HawkX66 on March 27, 2018, 06:32:50 PM

No, they were not a split nut. They're called a "rivnut."

My factory one:

You wouldn't happen to have a picture of the other side to show the crimp?

HawkX66 · « **Reply #33 on:** March 27, 2018, 08:45:47 PM »

Quote from: bheston on March 27, 2018, 08:34:18 PM

Quote from: HawkX66 on March 27, 2018, 06:32:50 PM
No, they were not a split nut. They're called a "rivnut."

My factory one:

I do, but I'll have to look for it.

You wouldn't happen to have a picture of the other side to show the crimp?

z28z11 · « **Reply #34 on:** March 28, 2018, 02:34:19 AM »

Quote from: HawkX66 on March 27, 2018, 07:35:28 PM

Quote from: Mike S on March 27, 2018, 07:32:05 PM
Dave,

Is that rough cut factory?

Mike
The 4 speed hole? Yes, that's factory cut.

That's a rough one - must have been a Monday after a long weekend, or a Friday in anticipation of a long weekend. I know they were torch cuts, had to have a pattern to trace the outline of the boot retainer (or maybe used the boot retainer as the pattern ?).

Regards,
Steve

bheston · « **Reply #35 on:** March 29, 2018, 10:52:05 AM »

I haven't ripped-up the carpet to look, but is it safe to assume that there are dimples in the locations for the front console bracket even for non-console cars?

Kelley W King · « **Reply #36 on:** March 29, 2018, 12:49:03 PM »

If that is from the AIM evidently the line did not see that picture of the cut out. Were the standard 3 speeds cut like that also?

z28z11 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 30, 2018, 01:45:10 AM »

Quote from: bheston on March 29, 2018, 10:52:05 AM

I haven't ripped-up the carpet to look, but is it safe to assume that there are dimples in the locations for the front console bracket even for non-console cars?

Absolutely. I believe the dimples are in place for the Rivnuts as well - I'll look on my tunnel section I have in storage (non-console) for the rears, but I know beyond doubt the bracket dimples are there, Camaro or 'Bird either way. Had to save a bunch of time on the line to pop the holes in the dimple locations (same for firewall dimples).

Regards,
Steve

KurtS · « **Reply #38 on:** April 02, 2018, 09:11:58 PM »

JohnZ says that the torch cut was so they didn't have to have another stamping for the floor. Three stampings were enough - the 3-speed and the auto and the column shift.

Mike S · « **Reply #39 on:** April 02, 2018, 09:56:04 PM »

I would think the 3-speed (and 4 speed) and auto would be the same hole dimensions.
At least in 67 they look the same.

Mike

x66 714 · « **Reply #40 on:** April 03, 2018, 01:09:53 AM »

The floor shift automatic in 68 and 69 had no hole for the shifter body itself. It was a plate mounted to the top of the floor...Joe

z28z11 · « **Reply #41 on:** April 03, 2018, 03:42:58 AM »

Quote from: x66 714 on April 03, 2018, 01:09:53 AM

The floor shift automatic in 68 and 69 had no hole for the shifter body itself. It was a plate mounted to the top of the floor...Joe

Correct. One smaller hole for the shift cable through the floor, behind and above the shift lever on the side of the trans.

Regards,
Steve

bheston · « **Reply #42 on:** April 04, 2018, 10:39:57 AM »

Still formulating my install plan. The non-gauge console wiring harness generally is supplied with the repro consoles. However, where is the wiring harness on the car side? That is, I presume that a non-console car does not have the #1 harness shown in the AIM? $:-\$ Below is a clip from the AIM. Does anyone have pictures or routing of the harness?

News:

Author Topic: Adding a non-gauge console? (Read 18406 times)