Author Topic: New member trying to find out what I have- Barn Find  (Read 2895 times)

woodcam

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New member trying to find out what I have- Barn Find
« on: February 13, 2018, 07:29:18 PM »
Newbe here.  I just purchased two 69 camaros which are supposed to be ss/rs 396 4 speed cars.  One is a matching number car and the other does not have the original engine but does have the transmission.  From the CRG web site if found where the partial vin's should be on the engines and transmissions and I have verified that they match the vin on the cars.  My question is around the cowl tags. 
The green car cowl tag has the following on it
ST  69 12437 NOR179004 BDY 
TR  711   59  B  PNT 
11C. 
Does the 11C mean that is was built in Nov of 1968 third week
The green one also has a fold down rear seat.  Where would I verify that option?

The gold car cowl tag has the following on it:
ST69  12437 NOR 238290 BDY    The first two numbers after the NOR are very hard to read in the picture and I think they are 23
TR  727        65  PNT
11D

Neither of these cowl tags have X codes - would that be normal for that date of construction?
With the limited information on the cowl tags where would I look to see the options of the car.
The green car is ac and the gold one does not have ac.
From all the parts we have gathered from the site and the storage building there seems to be two complete cars.  Some of the parts are NOS like two front fenders, two cowl hoods, two rear quarters, inner fenders, upper and lower front valances

I will try and post pictures and I'm sure I will have lots of other questions. 


jdv69z

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Re: New member trying to find out what I have- Barn Find
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2018, 07:52:29 PM »
Should be 68 builds, and would not have an X code on the tag. The only info which can be deduced from the tags are engine, (V8) , paint color, top color, and interior style/color. What are the VINs?
Jimmy V.

X33RS

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Re: New member trying to find out what I have- Barn Find
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2018, 08:38:26 PM »
Examine the bulk heads closely for any grease pencil markings.  Just one clue.  Sometimes hard to read and may take different lighting to bring it out.  Norwood was writing on them before the X code usage on the trim tags.  Hopefully the area hasn't been disturbed.

bcmiller

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Re: New member trying to find out what I have- Barn Find
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2018, 09:37:08 PM »
In other words, look for grease pencil markings after removing the rear seat. Look along the top edge of the metal structure, behind where the top of the upper seat would be. 
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now 468 cubic inch BBC/M21
67 RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

woodcam

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Re: New member trying to find out what I have- Barn Find
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2018, 01:11:56 AM »
Vin numbers are 124379N552748 and 12437N543837.  What will that be able to tell me?   The o e witbout the matching engi e is 543837

z28z11

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Re: New member trying to find out what I have- Barn Find
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2018, 04:43:08 AM »
Ditto the rear bulkhead check for X coding - it will help determine a bit more of the puzzle. The VIN's are not going to give you a lot of help.

I can see on the one with no front end sheet metal what appears to be a Muncie speedo cable position, and a twin fuel line, which rules in a 325 or 350 horse motor (or a 350 SB). Any evidence of black paint on the rear cove panels, under the trunk edge on the corners ?

If one or both cars have style trim, side rain gutter moldings will show that as well. If the original rear ends are with the cars, should be 12 bolts, both will likely have dual exhaust plates welded to the rear frames in the outer wheel houses behind the tires.

Post more pics when you can - most all of us love detective work.

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06

ko-lek-tor

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Re: New member trying to find out what I have- Barn Find
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2018, 04:46:48 AM »
Cool find. Tell us more. How many fuel lines? Pretty neat if both of them are BB cars. Pretty obvious the green one is a low-r horse with a/c
James to strangers, Bentley to friends
1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 bought in 79
1969 SS 350 coupe LeMans Blue 713 bought in 79(sold)
1969 307 4spd. coupe Daytona Yellow 711 bought in 85

ZLP955

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Re: New member trying to find out what I have- Barn Find
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2018, 09:42:51 AM »
The only info which can be deduced from the tags are engine, (V8) , paint color, top color, and interior style/color.
The trim tag doesn't identify L6 or V8 engine for a '69 Camaro (apart from some of the Norwood X-codes that denote certain V8's, for which these builds are too early), but the VINs do.
Neat projects!
Tim in Australia.
1969 04A Van Nuys Z/28. Cortez Silver, Dark Blue interior, VE3 bumper, Z21, Z23, D55/U17, D80, flat hood.
Sold at Clippinger Chevrolet in Covina, CA. Ex-E/MP at Lions Dragstrip in Long Beach.

Kelley W King

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Re: New member trying to find out what I have- Barn Find
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2018, 12:23:03 PM »
The VIN numbers do tell you that they are in the lost NCRS numbers so you might not waste your time. My 12A car does have the X code behind the seat but since the seller made a big deal of it I am not positive it was done at the factory.
69 Z28 RS Scuncio Hi Performance
69 SS L78
67 SS Chevelle
64 Corvette
66 GTO Tiger Gold
77 Trans Am Special Edition

Stingr69

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Re: New member trying to find out what I have- Barn Find
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2018, 02:24:48 PM »
The VIN numbers do tell you that they are in the lost NCRS numbers so you might not waste your time. My 12A car does have the X code behind the seat but since the seller made a big deal of it I am not positive it was done at the factory.

Kelly,
Just an OT comment for you - The original grease crayon marks on mine were so old as to be dusty soft, almost "chalk like" in condition.  They could be 70% wiped away with a wipe of your hand.  You can't fake that age.  Fresh crayon is not going to be like that and none of it will be under old glue spray.  Your results may vary of course.

-Mark.

woodcam

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Re: New member trying to find out what I have- Barn Find
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2018, 12:31:53 AM »
A few more questions.  What are the lost NCRS numbers mean.  Both cars do have the original rear ends in them.  I have about all the parts for both cars.  I bought them from an older gentleman who bought the gold one in 1971 and had an accident in it in 1979.  He had it shipped to Texas where it has sat in that garage since 1980.  The owner has told me they were both 396 325 hp cars.  I will post more pictures when i can.  We still have not extracated the gold car from the garage yet  because of all the stuff we are having to move around it.  And the condition of the garage falling in.   In the 80S he began purchasing parts from chevy like the fenders, hoods and quarter pannels brake lines, trim , etc however they have surface rust on them due to the damp garage.

What we have been told the gold car is a 396 325 hp 4 speed car rs/ss car.  It has the console still in it with white bucket seats.  All the hidaway headlight pieces are there except that the vacuum canistiers are rusted badly and i doubt they will hold vacuum.  The green one is supposed to be a 396 325 hp with four speed.  The interior is all there and it was an ac car with black interior and a fold down rear seat.  He doesnt have the original engine in it but a 454 out of a truck.

Last question doe these have enough value or rarity to restor back to original or will it hurt to convert the vacuum systen for the hidaway lights to electric?
I have never had any thing like this so i have never had to make that type of decision.  My other ca aro is a pro touring style with a 408 ls and a six speed however it started life as a 6 cylider with a 3 speed in the tree?

Any advice would be appreciated?.  I have no doubt the orininal owner is telling the truth i just want to be able to prove what they were originally and if they are rarer to perserve them.  Or dont worry about it and just modernize them
Thanks
Woody

6667ss138

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Re: New member trying to find out what I have- Barn Find
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2018, 12:52:17 AM »
Check out this link and site for the NCRS info. There are some early VIN's that are not available including yours. That is what Kelley is referring to. "1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275" are missing and not available.
Congrats on your two new projects, very nice finds!
Just my opinion but I would definitely restore back to original the one with the original engine/drivetrain, especially with it being a RS/SS, Big Block, 4 speed, A/C car. I personally like the frost green cars with black vinyl top and the black interior. It would be a beauty!

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=11724.0

https://www.chevymuscledocs.com/
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 01:19:59 AM by 6667ss138 »
Len H. KS
69 Z/28 07A X77D80 HO/Blk Vinyl Top, born w/drive train, full 3 owner hist
67 SS396 138 Conv/Red/Blk int.
66 SS396 138 4sp CA car/Smog/Blk/Red int. POP, born w/drive train, orig CA blk plates http://www.chevelles.com/forums/35-restoration-corner/528818-66-ss-finally-back-track-30.html

z28z11

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Re: New member trying to find out what I have- Barn Find
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2018, 01:54:25 AM »
Woody,

I believe your thinking is pretty straight. BB cars are always sought after, more so if you can prove what they are or how they were optioned. For the one with the missing engine, you can plan either way (modified or stock) and not really detract from the car or the value significantly, but the A/C car would likely be better restored if it indeed has a lot of the original equipment. Pretty desirable combination in my estimation. Both cars look like good candidates for restoration - nice find and a good purchase.

My BB SS L78 car is one of those that the NCRS paperwork skipped (12A '68 build). One week shy of the X codes, it's most saving grace is the original block is still with the car, but I would sure like to know what dealer it was sold through in Illinois. The search goes on - you can never find enough info on these cars, which is a lot of the fun in owning them. Good luck and keep us informed on what you discover, and send pics.

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06

x66 714

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Re: New member trying to find out what I have- Barn Find
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2018, 03:02:22 AM »
I would do them back to what they were new. I have a X66 "born with" drive train car that I bought in 1981. Back then I added every option I could get my hands on. I've since sold all the options that were not original to the car and now in the process of restoring it to "as sold new" condition. The car I have is possibly a dealer demo. I'll be looking forward to more pictures of your find. It all looks exciting....Joe
See America's First, Chevrolet

1968 Z/28 Corvette Bronze. Black Hounds Tooth. 02E Los Angeles born 3/13/1968 pnt OO. Purchased March 1976
1969 SS396 Yellow/Yellow 08E Norwood born 8/28/1969 pnt 76E. Purchased April 1981

169INDY

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Re: New member trying to find out what I have- Barn Find
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 03:31:57 AM »
You could liquidate one to Support the other.
Around Here the desire tends toward originality, so with these higher option cars it make sense to lean that direction. As always it depends on your end needs -vs- wants.
But my short answer is Restore them Both!
Cheers & Welcome to CRG.   

Jim
Jim
68 SS/RS L35 Th-400 LOS
69 Pace Car L48 Th-350 LOS
68 Z28 M21 LOS