Author Topic: Documentation for 9N657909  (Read 1930 times)

ZLP955

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Documentation for 9N657909
« on: December 17, 2017, 04:20:31 AM »
I admit to being biased towards a Cortez Silver Z28, so naturally this one caught my attention:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z-28/142626598240

However, looking through the detailed pictures I noted a number of red flags - like the stamped codes (!) down by the oil filter. Then the size of the font for the VIN sequence differs from the rest of the VIN on the CHP appraisal certificate, as well as certain spacing, so I wonder about the rest of the 'documentation' - broadcast copy, MSO......
Interested in your thoughts. Not trying to start vendor bashing, so could we please keep it factual  8)
Here's a few of the photos from the above ebay listing:




Tim in Australia.
1969 04A Van Nuys Z/28. Cortez Silver, Dark Blue interior, VE3 bumper, Z21, Z23, D55/U17, D80, flat hood.
Sold at Clippinger Chevrolet in Covina, CA. Ex-E/MP at Lions Dragstrip in Long Beach.

KurtS

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Re: Documentation for 9N657909
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2017, 05:17:51 AM »
What a joke! All that documentation has been modified. Ray Charles could see that....
Kurt S
CRG

bertfam

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Re: Documentation for 9N657909
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2017, 05:32:05 AM »
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

By the way, wouldn't all this be considered fraud?

And what about a 08A Trim Tag on an early June car???

Ed
Ed "Bert" Bertrand
email me!

BULLITT65

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Re: Documentation for 9N657909
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2017, 05:37:38 AM »
Hmm intersting since the tag looked authentic to me. ???

 I do agree with it not lining up with the Vin though. :o
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

ZLP955

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Re: Documentation for 9N657909
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2017, 09:46:51 AM »
Thanks. Haven't seen enough MSOs or BBCs to call it 100%, but there were enough changes of font size, style and legibility in those to be almost certain. Surprised Jerry doesn't put a unique serial number on his appraisal certificates to help prevent those being altered; expect some potential buyers would just see the certificate as proof positive and wouldn't check facts with him before buying.....
For future search 124379N657909
Tim in Australia.
1969 04A Van Nuys Z/28. Cortez Silver, Dark Blue interior, VE3 bumper, Z21, Z23, D55/U17, D80, flat hood.
Sold at Clippinger Chevrolet in Covina, CA. Ex-E/MP at Lions Dragstrip in Long Beach.

HOT3O2

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Re: Documentation for 9N657909
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2017, 02:26:07 PM »
At least if your going to re stamp the motor (V0121DZ) make it a little closer to the cars build date (08A).
Rick
69 RS/Z28

bertfam

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Re: Documentation for 9N657909
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2017, 04:50:16 PM »
Quote
Hmm intersting since the tag looked authentic to me.

It is! That's what's really scary about this car. The trim tag is real and has never been removed so that brings up a huge red flag about the VIN. An inspection of the hidden VINs would be highly recommended in this case!

Jerry contacted the seller a few days ago, but as of yet, they're still showing the fake paperwork in the auction. Looking in my crystal ball, I foresee several lawyers buying new houses with the money they're going to make off this!!

Ed
Ed "Bert" Bertrand
email me!

X33RS

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Re: Documentation for 9N657909
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2017, 06:15:22 PM »
Makes me skeptical of any paperwork anymore with the things people are doing.

I think it's getting to the point Jerry is going to have to make videos of documenting cars if he hasn't already, but I guess people will find ways to manipulate that too.

I guess if a car has certification, one still has to just call Jerry to verify everything on the paper these days.

z28z11

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Re: Documentation for 9N657909
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2017, 11:36:28 PM »
What a joke! All that documentation has been modified. Ray Charles could see that....

Both of my MSO sheets (both Z's) are copies of microfiched documents; they are more distinct by far than this cobbled up mess.

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06

BULLITT65

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Re: Documentation for 9N657909
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2017, 11:45:10 PM »
What state are yours from Steve, and how did you get them?
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

rare396bronze

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Re: Documentation for 9N657909
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2017, 06:20:43 AM »
The company has a real bad reputation. Been discussed about before. I would never look at anything they have. Worst MSO I have ever seen. The HP rating is not is not even correct. Have 3 copy's from State of Tennessee one is my 396 convertible and a friends 68z28 also 68 327 coupe. In Tennessee if the car was shipped to a dealer brand new years ago you could do a title search before the privacy law. The had it on microfiche and would send you a Certification on the car paper work including copy of Dealer invoice and MSO and all the previous owners.

z28z11

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Re: Documentation for 9N657909
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2017, 05:10:24 AM »
What state are yours from Steve, and how did you get them?

Both of my Z's are Tennessee cars, one Middle Tn, one East TN, both cars were sold here and have spent all of their lives here. I ran the first request through the TNDOT about 1980-81, when I found out it could be done (I think from an article in Super Chevy); fortunately, TN is one of the states that microfiched old records if the car was sold new here, and tucked them away in the DOT archives. Early on, they would not redact names from the paperwork, later they did. Eventually both the Federal privacy laws caught up with them, they started redacting the names, but still gave out the copies until state funding cutbacks reduced shifts and overtime at the DOT, forcing them to cut out the service (they researched overnight, gave you the copies next day). Rare396bronze and I have researched several cars this way, and have documented both of our '68's right down to the MSO's and dealer invoice copies, which is great. I just wish I could see my L78's paperwork like this, it's an early car that fell outside of the NCRS dealer info (12B build) - since it came from the Chicago area, I've always wondered if it was a Nickey car, which would be a boon to say the least.

Regards,
Steve

1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06

68Tiger

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Re: Documentation for 9N657909
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2017, 12:28:19 PM »
The company has a real bad reputation. Been discussed about before. I would never look at anything they have.

x2 Agree! I recall reading a thread on Team Camaro about a guy getting scammed by this place. The owners then tried to defend the allegations however the majority of the guys on the forum who chimed in reported similar happenings.
69 Camaro RS
Bolero red.
327ci Automatic
12 bolt posi. / 3.55

Tx-Z 302

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Re: Documentation for 9N657909
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2017, 08:56:33 PM »
What a joke! All that documentation has been modified. Ray Charles could see that....

Both of my MSO sheets (both Z's) are copies of microfiched documents; they are more distinct by far than this cobbled up mess.

Regards,
Steve
.    Can I get microfiche copies of mine?
Chris W

JKZ27

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Re: Documentation for 9N657909
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2017, 02:18:11 PM »
Chris, I believe it depends on the state your car was originally delivered to and how that state keeps documents. Some states purge them, some are kept until the car is registered elsewhere.
John
69 RS/SS Cortez Silver, L48 MC1
68 RS Ash/Ivy Gold 327EFI M20