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Author Topic: firewall overspray  (Read 10711 times)
Ron C.
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« on: February 04, 2007, 07:59:21 AM »

does anyone know if the black on the firewall was painted before the color of the car or after? Im just wondering about the overspray at the top of the firewall, Im guessing the black was painted first then the color of the car was oversprayed at the top cowl area and down the front about 2 inches. Jerrys book says they didnt mask this area so a overspray is correct and not a masked line seperation. Any pics ?
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JohnZ
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« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2007, 11:25:44 AM »

The firewall blackout was sprayed AFTER the body color painting was completed, using a simple cardboard spray shield to make the separation - appearance at the separation varied widely; on my original Norwood 02D '69, the separation is several inches below the top of the cowl.
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Dave69x33
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« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2007, 03:06:56 PM »

JohnZ,

Is it true that the general guide was to paint the firewall black up to approximately the weld seam or just beyond, where the cowl top panel and firewall floor pan met? I have been told that some 69's have been found with spotty rust along this seam where there was no overlap between the body color and blackout paint, living it prone to rust.
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Ron C.
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« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2007, 04:50:22 PM »

so if the black was painted last the color (white in my case) would go down to about the trim tag? Useally the trim tag gets completely blacked out.Im  asking this for my 67 which the tag is about in the same location as the 69.see pic
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JohnZ
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2007, 03:57:55 PM »

The separation on mine is below the cowl tag, roughly along the sealed seam; mine is a dark color, however (Fathom Green), so they probably didn't pay much attention to where the blackout started, as the separation point isn't obvious like it would be with a lighter color.
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'69 Z/28
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x77-69z28
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2007, 01:04:25 AM »

john, can you post a pic of your cowl?
thanks
buddy
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69 x77 burnished brown, 711 int 05A bought in 78
67 rs/ss 350 butternut yellow 4 speed 2nd owner
70 Z28 forrest green, green int, M40, bk vinyl roof PROJECT
99 SS hugger orange 6spd NO TTOPS bought new 1 of 54
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JohnZ
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2007, 12:40:13 PM »

Here's a photo, but you can't really see the separation due to the dark body color - it's generally along the sealed seam between the cowl and the floor pan, just below the cowl tag.

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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2007, 02:38:09 PM »

John, was this a hard and fast rule? I ask because my 68 isn't like that. I've taken two pictures for you to have a look at. Notice in PICTURE-1 the yellow Vent Grille and the black Cowl. Note in PICTURE-2 the yellow paint "shadow" at the fender bolt where the black paint didn't reach.

I looked in my (limited so far) 68 database and found 3 other cars like mine, although most of the others that I can see are like yours.

Ed
« Last Edit: February 06, 2007, 06:04:44 PM by bertfam » Logged
JohnZ
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2007, 01:01:27 PM »

Ed, processes varied between plants, and within the same plant - few things were "hard and fast" rules. However, the one in Picture 2 has been worked on since it was built - the firewall blackout operation was done in the Fisher Body Paint Shop, long before the hood and fenders were installed by Chevrolet on the other side of the plant.

Mine is a '69 Norwood car (02D).
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2007, 02:11:13 PM »

Okay, that makes sense. And I agree. It appears that my car (or at least "parts" of my car), has been repainted. I see what you mean regarding the fender "black". It should be yellow. I scrapped off some of the paint, and yes, it's yellow under there! Not sure why whoever repainted the car went through the trouble of painting that area black, but who knows.

Ed
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paceme
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2007, 04:45:41 PM »

Attached is a pic of my survivor 69 L34 built 9B of 68. The black is almost to the top and has the correct factoryfeathered edge. The placement of the black edge varies from car to shift and plant. I have inspected many survivor cars and I would not say that the seam is a good reference point. I have many more pics of this car as well as other survivors.
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paceme
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2007, 09:23:38 PM »

Unrestored firewall 69 Z28 built 5A. Note the orig PTB stamp and the RED written in crayon, under the black.
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Steve Shauger
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paceme
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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2007, 09:58:53 PM »

Another 69 Survivor Z28 built 4D. Hope this helps... I have other years as well.
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« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2007, 11:00:04 PM »

Looked at an original paint Z tonight.  Yellow/Black, 02D NOR.  Black under the cowl, only the second one Ive personally come across.  The other also a black stripe Z.
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Ron C.
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« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2007, 02:20:41 PM »

thanks everyone for all the help. Grin I have one more question,JohnZ if you might comment on this, when the rockers got sprayed we all know some color was evedent under the car,my question is was the subframe on the car and did it also get some overspray or was it attached after the body was sprayed? Im thinking it was attached after.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2007, 05:04:48 PM by Ron 69RSZ » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2007, 11:42:28 PM »

the subframe was NOT in the car when the body was painted
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69 x77 burnished brown, 711 int 05A bought in 78
67 rs/ss 350 butternut yellow 4 speed 2nd owner
70 Z28 forrest green, green int, M40, bk vinyl roof PROJECT
99 SS hugger orange 6spd NO TTOPS bought new 1 of 54
11 cts-v blk diamond  edition wagon 556hp sick!
JohnZ
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« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2007, 11:44:02 AM »

the subframe was NOT in the car when the body was painted

Correct - the body was just a shell from the firewall back when it was painted on the Fisher Body side of the plant; the subframe wasn't attached until two days later on the Chevrolet side of the plant, after the Chevrolet-painted front end sheet metal was installed.
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Ron C.
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« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2007, 04:05:49 PM »

Thanks Guys, thats great info.Too bad nobody has any old pics of the camaro assembly line at these points of assembly.that would be cool. Grin
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JohnZ
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« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2007, 10:49:40 AM »

Here's a photo of the '67 Camaro subframe, engine, chassis and driveline being installed to the overhead body - note that the Chevrolet front sheet metal is already assembled to the body.

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'69 Z/28
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Dave69x33
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« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2007, 11:22:34 AM »

Hello Everyone,

I did not intend to state that it was the "rule" that the blackout paint was to "only run" up to the weld seam between the cowl panel and firewall-floor pan.  As the pics of survivor cars show, the firewall blackout paint "generally" runs up to and feathers along the top edge, and not a nice clean taped edge.  I learned this “general rule” while my 69Z was being judged during the 2000 Camaro Nationals in Columbus, OH., from Larry Christiansen (some of you may have seen Larry's Camaros over the years at shows and in magazines) and the World Wide Camaro Association Judges.  "Generally", the judges look for the blackout paint to "at least" run up to firewall weld seam and/or feather out along the top of the cowl edge.  Along the passenger side of the car, where the weld seam runs within with in 1" - 2" from the top edge, and survivor Camaros show many variations along this area. 

I also have been cataloging pics of survivor 69 Camaros over the years.  It took me 4-years to restore mine and I tried to follow what I observed on survivors, particularly Camaros assembled near the build date of mine "05A".

It’s important that we post as many pics of survivors, with associated build dates, on this web site to help guide other 1st Gen Camaro owners during their restorations.  I wish I wound have discovered this site long before I started my restoration!

Here are a few pics of firewall blackout paint I have seen on survivor 69's. 

Thank for all your info and pics!
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Dave69x33
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« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2007, 11:42:21 AM »

Sorry, I forgot the pics. 
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Dave69x33
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« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2007, 11:46:32 AM »

Here are a couple more from a suvivor 69 Pace Car.
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Dave69x33
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« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2007, 11:58:02 AM »

JohnZ,

I ran across a pic of your firewall and trim tag showing very little firewall black in the area around the trim tag. 

As it turned out, my restored Z28 firewall black out paint pattern is similar to your car.  Again, I was very explicit with my painter to spray the black up near top edge of the cowl but to allow it to feather out and not necessary even completely cover the entire firewall.
 
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Ron C.
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« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2007, 08:22:43 AM »

So what the pics show is a blend along the top and not way down by the seam, I guessing they sprayed at an angle along the top and then the black was sprayed as close to the top without getting to the top edge.That would also cover the trim plate with mostly black. Was this painting done by hand or machine? Huh
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JohnZ
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« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2007, 02:52:41 PM »

The firewall blackout was done manually, using a simple cardboard spray shield along the upper edge; it was done in the same booth as the trunk spatter paint and the rocker blackout.
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'69 Z/28
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Ron C.
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« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2007, 03:52:28 PM »

John,was it the same for the 67 model year? The red Z pics of the firewall look like they really got it down to an art, im wondering if the 67 cars were more would you say less refined (more sloppy) with more car color down by the trim plate.anyone have pics of a 67 car? Maybe Jerry can show a pic of his survivor 67Z? Oh John,thanks for that pic of the white 67 on the assembly line,it could be mine !!! Just kidding Grin
« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 04:37:26 PM by Ron 69RSZ » Logged

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KurtS
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« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2007, 11:20:41 AM »

Ron,
The subframe was installed later. Take a glance at the assembly article. Smiley
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Ron C.
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« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2007, 08:14:39 AM »

Thanks Kurt, I kinda figured it was but it must have been a neat trick to have the nose of the car on without the rad support connected to the subframe.  Huh
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JohnZ
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« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2007, 11:47:01 AM »

The complete front sheet metal "doghouse", including the inner fenders and corner braces, is an extremely stiff assembly all by itself when all five fender-to-cowl bolts and the three inner fender-to-dash brace bolts at the rear on both sides are tight; makes for a very rigid "box" structure.
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« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2007, 12:25:10 PM »

Black survivor...

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James
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xplantdad
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« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2007, 12:53:06 PM »

How about this?

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Ron C.
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« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2007, 02:23:30 PM »

Nice pic,is the blue like that all the way across the top?
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xplantdad
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« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2007, 03:37:06 PM »

Yep...from what I remember...

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