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Author Topic: 68 camaro 350 SS authenticity  (Read 6351 times)
shift1313
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« on: November 21, 2005, 05:09:09 PM »

Hey guys, this is my first post, and my first camaro.  It belonged to my brother for the past 5 years who planned to restore it.  He just passed away from cancer and I have the car now with the same plans in mind in his honor.  The car is painted up like an SS and im trying to find out how original it all is but im having some trouble.  Apparently its very hard to identify a 68ss.  The car has 40k on it right now.  I have the title and 96 it had 11k actual miles on it.  Since my brother has had it for 5 years and it wasnt titled since 96 I dont see any way it could have 140k on it.  I know the orig color was not the orange it is today.  It was Island Teal. 
Here is the firewall tag info:

       07C
ST   68-12437 NOR172135  Body
TR     712                  F2    Paint

So ive got the build date as the 3rd week of july, assembled in Norwood, black standard buckets, black vinyl top(which is has) V8 car and Island Teal paint, which i can see on the tranny and apparently in the trunk(dont know yet), i havent gotten in the trunk yet.  Ive pulled numbers off of everything I can find and what I have been finding is discouraging because it really isnt leading me anywhere.  Ill start with the motor and work back and hopefully you guys can give me some insight.
The block casting number is 3970010.  From the info I have found that tells me its either a 302, 327 or a 350.  The numbers I pulled off the block pad behind the alt are what worry me.  I have 161121168  K10  06  CMJ.  The CMJ from what I could find is a Police motor?  That worried me.  Especially since the partial vin didnt match the cars vin, 124378N470312.  The motor has long tube headers, and a qjet with an edelbrock manifold.  The air cleaner says 295hp 350 on it(not that its hard to get).  The Numbers I pulled off the heads were even worse.  333882!!!! smog heads.  And earliest production date was 1970.  So obviously someone has done some monkeying around with the motor.  The tranny in the car best I can tell is a 3 speed thm350.  I pulled the number off the pan, B6C02D which told me the model year was 66?  The number on the drivers side of the tranny was 8640300 but the 3 was backwards.  The numbers say its a turbo 350 but they werent used until 69 right?  The car does have power disc up front which doesnt tell me one thing or the other for sure.  The interior didnt have to be anything special on an SS and this one isnt.  No ac, no tach, it does have a clock on the center console.  Moving back, the car has a 10bolt rear.  I pulled the standard test marks off of it, casting date was F278, june 27, 1968 so atleast it appears to be the orig rear end.  I couldnt find the Axle Stamp but i got the casting number 3894859NF telling me the obvious that its a 10bolt.  The shocks have a small line coming from each one that looks like it goes into the trunk.  Not sure what that is because i havent gotten in the trunk yet but I havent found any info on it.  The car has rallys on it, the rear looking like they came from a vette cause they have 275s on them, too wide for the car. 

hopefully you guys will have some insight for me and point me in a right direction if you made it through all that.
thanks in advance for the help
matt

edit, i forgot to mention i pulled both front seats out looking for a build sheet with no luck.  I read somewhere there might have been one in the rear seat padding, the backrest of the front seats or the bucket of the drivers seat.  once i get in the trunk i can pull the rear seat out and take a look.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2005, 05:13:14 PM by shift1313 » Logged
ccargo
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« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2005, 06:18:22 PM »

First off welcome Matt and our condolences on your brothers passing. Cancer touches so many of our lives either directly or indirectly  Cry  As for the car being an SS it doesnt sound promising from the information you have posted so far. If you can post a photo of the block pad it would help us to double check your findings...but it doesnt appear you have a matching number L48 engine. The THM350 was not available in July of 68 for an L48 SS either. The 10 bolt axel more or less makes it unlikely it is a L48 SS that has had its motor and transmission displaced. If you have any original paper work for the car it might help as you are correct that its difficult to tell if a 68 is an SS etc. w/o paper work or original drivetrain components. If the body is solid I would recommend restoring the car to your likeing with your brother in mind. For most of us a clone or replica is no crime as long as you are upfront and honest about the cars history or lack of. Welcome to the site and feel free to ask questions as you move along with the project. Lots of knowledge here Smiley
« Last Edit: November 21, 2005, 06:19:58 PM by ccargo » Logged
shift1313
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« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2005, 06:42:23 PM »

thanks for your reply ccargo and i appreciate the kind words.  I will do what i can to get pictures of the car.  Since I do have the title from when the car had 11k on it I might have some luck tracking down those owners and asking some questions.  The car is pretty solid.  the underbody is excelent as well as the interior.  the car did have a banged up right front 1/4 but i have a replacement that my brother got a few years back.  Are there any places on the car I can look for orig. documentation?  I still have the rear seat padding and the trunk area once i get it open( i dont have a key).  The car runs pretty good, fires up right away and appears solid.  One more question that i forgot to ask in the orig. post.  I know the build dates for the models years run from aug-jul for 67 and 68 model years.  How strict are they with that.  Meaning is it possible this car was built third week of july in 67?  Also do you know what the lines running from the shocks into the trunk area are? And any good ideas on getting into the trunk without ruining anything?  I guess I was holding on to the hopes of a real SS but it just seems odd to me to have such a low miles car with odd ball parts on it.  Everything about the car screamed low miles, unfortunately a crappy paint job has created some problems around the rear window and doors.

Thanks so much for the quick reply.  I will try to get some pictures posted tomorrow.  I will have to pull the alternator off to get a good pic.
thanks
matt
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KurtS
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« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2005, 01:40:41 AM »

Car was built in July of 68. VIN confirms it.
I personally wouldn't bother with the engine pad pic (no disrespect to Pat Smiley ).
I would find the axle code, since that will confirm if it is original to the car and hence what the car was.
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Kurt S
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shift1313
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« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2005, 07:50:05 AM »

i thought the axle wasnt a good way to ID a car.  The date on the axle tends to confirm it was built at the right time to be orig. but i couldnt find the axle stamp anywhere.  I looked on the front and back of the axle tubes on both sides.  You guys have a definate location for a 10 bolt axle code.  The info I found on IDing an axle seemed to be for a 12bolt and the 10 bolt stuff was opposite it for everything i found.  Also I was cross referencing the vin and some production numbers the crg has and noticed that mine didnt fall in line which is why i asked the production date question. 

Norwood end of month vin report numbers

           LOS            LOS            NOR
         Passenger      Camaro         Camaro
Month    End     Month     End    Month   End     Month
             VIN     Total      VIN     Total      VIN     Total
------    -------------          -------------              -------------

May-68 159256   7045  342085   3521  465482  39952
Jun-68 165727   6471  345432   3347  482588  17106 
Jul-68 170718   4991  349164   3732  484735   2147


my vin ends in 470312.  It was that discrepency that made me wonder how strict those production dates were. 
thanks
matt
« Last Edit: November 22, 2005, 08:02:13 AM by shift1313 » Logged
JohnZ
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« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2005, 10:32:23 AM »

The engine is a 350/145hp 2-barrel, made at McKinnon Industries (Canada) out of a '76 full-size, Chevelle, or Monte Carlo built at the Oshawa, Ontario assembly plant. The 3970010 block was used from '69-'79 for virtually all car and truck applications.
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'69 Z/28
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shift1313
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« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2005, 11:57:39 AM »

thanks john.  The orig motor may or may not be where the car was, i have to do some digging. there is a complete small block there that im hoping matches the vin and will give me some better insight into this car.  unfortuately its about 4hrs away so i wont be up there for another week or so.  I did get some pictures of the car uploaded but obviously they really dont tell you anything.













sorry for the bad lighting, if it wasnt snowing outside id drive it out and take some good pictures in the light.

i also counted the turns on the hood springs.  it looks to be 26turns vs the SS 28 turns.  So that leaves me to ask what motor it had orig. since the vin tag says its a v8 car.  does that only leave the 327 or could it have been a 302?

matt
« Last Edit: November 22, 2005, 01:56:50 PM by shift1313 » Logged
shift1313
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« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2005, 05:46:48 PM »

not really better pics but they have a flash.




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KurtS
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« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2005, 12:08:34 AM »

If it's a Chevy axle, the stamp will be were the sketch under 'Decoding' show it. 10 bolt or 12 bolt. It'll be there, just have to scrape. And the sketch is pretty accurate.

Re-read all those caveats about those production totals. Some months are really off, the records are not accurate.
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Kurt S
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shift1313
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« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2005, 07:02:07 AM »

thanks kurt, ill get back under and keep scraping in the next few days.  I found all the other pertinent data the sketch listed but it was all in different locations with the exception of the date. 

thanks
matt
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Tinkerr
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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2005, 11:39:26 PM »

Hi,
I haven't seen anybody answer this ,but I suspect the line from the shocks would indicate somebody installed air shocks to clear those big tires.  Paul
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shift1313
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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2005, 06:33:47 PM »

thanks paul.  someone told me that there should be schrader valves in the trunk area to pump them up more then likely.  Id say your guess would be correct.  I still havent been able to get in the trunk but im still trying.  Ill post here once i figure it out.

thanks

matt
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shift1313
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« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2005, 10:45:25 PM »

I pulled the number off the axle.  BP0708G.  Manufactured July 08 In detroit 1968 from the date stamp.  Axle ratio unfortunately 2.73:1 non posi.  So i guess its safe to say this was 100% not an SS unless someone swapped the motor and trans for an emission motor and swaped rear ends to a lower model. 

One last question on this.  The car has a multi leaf setup in the rear.  Did all the v8 cars recieve this?

thanks
matt
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shift1313
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« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2005, 07:07:57 PM »

i was stripping some paint on the car around the vinyl top trim and over the edge of the rear 1/4.  I found a whole lot of bondo so i started inspecting.  there must have been 1/4 inch of bondo on the top edge of the fender and when i got through it all i found a seam and spot welds.  it looks like at the very least the drivers rear 1/4 was replaced but ive never seen someone lay a fender over top of another one and weld it in.  is this standard practice?

once i get more bondo off ill take a pic of the seam
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