Author Topic: Caveat Emptor...another repro window sticker  (Read 1989 times)

william

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Caveat Emptor...another repro window sticker
« on: April 27, 2017, 01:24:51 AM »
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-SS-396-375HP-X22-D80-4-Speed-/112385895891?hash=item1a2ab8add3:g:Vh8AAOSw5UZZAR4Q&vxp=mtr

It's back! 124379N680287. Title & tags were sold on ebay years ago.

Window sticker is an obvious fake, one of the worst I've seen. N680287 was final-assembled on or about Sep 4, 1969 but the sticker lists two options dropped well prior. NC8 was discontinued May 19th; N66 January 2nd. Power front disc brakes were standard on Camaro SS, never listed on factory docs. Several other errors on it.

1968RSZ28

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Re: Caveat Emptor...another repro window sticker
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2017, 03:05:43 PM »
Keep up the good work, William! :)

Paul

william

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Re: Caveat Emptor...another repro window sticker
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2017, 04:21:46 PM »
I plan to but it is getting old. Some of this is just lack of knowledge but blatant dishonesty is getting more common.

hpaddict

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Re: Caveat Emptor...another repro window sticker
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2017, 01:14:39 AM »
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-SS-396-375HP-X22-D80-4-Speed-/112385895891?hash=item1a2ab8add3:g:Vh8AAOSw5UZZAR4Q&vxp=mtr

It's back! 124379N680287. Title & tags were sold on ebay years ago.

Window sticker is an obvious fake, one of the worst I've seen. N680287 was final-assembled on or about Sep 4, 1969 but the sticker lists two options dropped well prior. NC8 was discontinued May 19th; N66 January 2nd. Power front disc brakes were standard on Camaro SS, never listed on factory docs. Several other errors on it.


That window sticker looks real to the unsuspecting buyer like myself.   Do you have a link or proof of the sale of title and tags?   I'm just trying to figure out how the guy could match the firewall tag, dash tag and vin near a/c area without being caught.

My concern is if that car is  fake, how am I supposed to find one that is not.   I've have been in the market for a 69, but it appears every car I see is a SS forgery or otherwise.   One guy tried to sell me a car with a 6 cyl dash tag, no tag under the hood and a V8 telling me it was an original V8.

I have pretty much concluded whatever I buy will be a fake and I should just decide how much I want to pay for said fake.  Haha.  or is there another way to verify these cars.

Last, lets say its a fake.   Its a good looking one.  What is a car like that worth?
2002 LS3 Z06 145mph in 9.6 secs.
Next Car and still looking for... 1969 SS/RS 396 TH400 12 Bolt, A/C

KurtS

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Re: Caveat Emptor...another repro window sticker
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2017, 01:49:28 AM »
I have a picture of the cowl section (cut off) when it sold back in 2000. Note that it has no pictures of any of the numbers....

It used to be a 52-52 X55, so not black and not a big block.
Kurt S
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hpaddict

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Re: Caveat Emptor...another repro window sticker
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2017, 03:08:04 AM »
I have a picture of the cowl section (cut off) when it sold back in 2000. Note that it has no pictures of any of the numbers....

It used to be a 52-52 X55, so not black and not a big block.

so, basically its a rebody w/the old cowl welded in in addition to some vin tag "magic".   So, any recommended resources to help research the 1st gens? 
2002 LS3 Z06 145mph in 9.6 secs.
Next Car and still looking for... 1969 SS/RS 396 TH400 12 Bolt, A/C

hpaddict

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Re: Caveat Emptor...another repro window sticker
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2017, 03:19:36 AM »
ok...think I just found this site's ref data for identifying the cars... thanks.
2002 LS3 Z06 145mph in 9.6 secs.
Next Car and still looking for... 1969 SS/RS 396 TH400 12 Bolt, A/C

BULLITT65

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Re: Caveat Emptor...another repro window sticker
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2017, 06:48:07 AM »
Last, lets say its a fake.   Its a good looking one.  What is a car like that worth?

[/quote]
 First off welcome the the CRG!

Well it bid to 49k the last time, which is probably what it is worth if it was real. That is also likely why it was re-listed.
Any Camaro real or fake is only worth what the market is willing to pay, BUT do all the bidders have all the correct info ?
"NO"
so IMO the car is probably worth less than what it cost to restore it with I assume a very nice paint job. I would say any plain jane camaro restored to an SS or Z/28, COPO, (whatever), and the seller has been honest about it is probably about a 25k car, maybe 30. Again it all depends on what someone is willing to pay. You could have a buyer think that a real SS with the same options would go for 60k, so he is willing to pay 30k to have a re-creation of it. If you read the research pages of the CRG, and do a lot of research you can find a real honest car. Just be patient. If you are in hurry to get something the odds are not in your favor, your right there is a lot of junk and fakes out there.
Spend a couple of months (or more) learning and knowing all about the specific model you are after. Go to car shows and be able to identify correct and incorrect items on such cars. Look at many ads and you will start to pick up errors in the restoration of some cars, or many that are over -restored  (like this one), trying to say they are the best of the best. Take a body guy with you to examine the body of the car you are potentially looking at. Use as many resources as you can to make sure you get what you are paying for.

Jerry McNiesh does inspect cars for potential buyers and flies all over to do so. I think Barret Jackson uses his services to check out all the camaros going through their auction, because there are so many fakes.
You can always start a new thread on here with any potential car you are looking at. Post a link to an ad or pics if a car you are looking at. The CRG members will give you a good break down and good insight to get you started. Good luck!  :)
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

69Z28-RS

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Re: Caveat Emptor...another repro window sticker
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2017, 01:48:21 PM »
:) ..  tongue in cheek...  :)

.. since the *expert* now uses terms like 'restoration engine'  (instead of calling it a 'restamp')...

Perhaps his PC term here for this body and car would be ...  'restoration body/tags/etc'....  :)
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

KurtS

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Re: Caveat Emptor...another repro window sticker
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2017, 05:05:43 AM »
Gary,
I would rather keep the snarky tone off the forum.
Thanks! :)
Kurt S
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69Z28-RS

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Re: Caveat Emptor...another repro window sticker
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2017, 04:03:27 PM »
Sorry Kurt....    I just have little patience for people 'relabeling' restamps/etc in order to fool some buyers...  :(
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

KurtS

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Re: Caveat Emptor...another repro window sticker
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2017, 04:29:53 AM »
But that wasn't your statement. It seemed directed at a person who uses a common term in his reports and doesn't do it 'to fool' anyone since he's not selling....
Kurt S
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68Zproject

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Re: Caveat Emptor...another repro window sticker
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2017, 04:11:10 PM »
I didn't see a window sticker in the ad.  It was re-listed and I just don't see it.  Was it just in the first listing?
68Z28

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Re: Caveat Emptor...another repro window sticker
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2017, 04:14:32 PM »
Never mind, I looked at the original listing and the answer is yes.  Wow talk about going overboard.
68Z28

KurtS

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Re: Caveat Emptor...another repro window sticker
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2017, 07:09:34 PM »
I emailed them. They said:
> We have asked the individuals making the claims mentioned in your thread to send the proof, yet none has been presented.
BS. I asked who and pointed out they had to be a member of the forum to contact people. No response on that.
I told them the WS was fake and I sent them a picture of the cowl. They asked for more. I sent them a picture of the cowl tag and asked for a current tag picture. No response.
So they have been provided with proof, as they requested, but still make claims that just are bogus. They did remove the WS picture, but still talk about it.
> a documented 1969 Camaro SS 396/375HP
> the original window sticker sets this car over the top! This is a true 10 10 tuxedo black car with the 711 black interior trim code.  The window sticker verifies ....

I tried to help, they may get a call from Bryan Shook in the future when someone realizes they have been had....
Kurt S
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