Author Topic: NEW DISCUSSION GROUP (FORUM)? - Classes and Judging Guidelines  (Read 2938 times)

Sauron327

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Re: NEW DISCUSSION GROUP (FORUM)? - Classes and Judging Guidelines
« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2017, 11:37:35 PM »
Been watching with some interest, although I care about originality but don't ever plan to attend a points judging event with a car.
If there is no agreed Camaro judging manual, and the individual judges vary between events, how can there be a standardised guide to judging, unless one intends to prepare the car to the varying standards of each specific event? And from where do the judges derive what they consider to be accurate details, if there is no concensus opinion?
Good point. I have seen many over-restored cars that do not represent historical accuracy regarding body and paint. These cars never originally had flawless paint or panel alignment, yet many who restore them for "accuracy" fail in this regard. Over-restored cars have perfectly wet rocker bottoms, full coverage on inner fender braces, no overspray on floorpans or under the hood, and Ridler award gaps. If one wants correctness it should apply to all aspects of an assembly line car.
Well I know I failed in paint and gaps and know a whole bunch of others that have as well. Does that mean the car has to be painted in Lacquer to meet "all aspects?" Your points go to an area of restoration that few would ever go to and personally I've not noted one completed that way but you are correct.  :)
NCRS deducts points for paint being overdone, or door jams shiny or show chrome, etc., but even Corvettes are over restored compared to "all aspects of an assembly line car." The correctness I referred to was not about gaps but about a wrong service replacement part, what the original part should look like, correct hardware, etc., etc.. Not that long ago Tim was asking about information and we obtained quite a bit from my 67 & 68 NCRS judging manual. It even comes in handy for other GM makes.
Personally I will continue and use originality as Kurt suggested but it would be beneficial if more people with knowledge would assist with information.
Over and out on this one and time to get a car out and enjoy spring. 
The last four cars I've done left the shop with better than factory gaps and paint. It has become common to modify factory panels for show gaps. It is what owners desire after being asked if they want overspray, factory style paint, or irregular factory fit and finish. Most don't know what these cars looked like originally as far as body and paint; and they expect them to look like many 2017 cars (except for paint texture).
As far as lacquer is concerned, that is not the originality of which I am speaking. In this industry, lacquer is getting difficult to obtain, and will eventually be gone. Floor pans, firewalls and every other black component are not being painted with the same materials today as they were in '67. I doubt any judges are taking a sample and sending it to PPG for instance and having it lab tested. Which they can do if a paint warranty is in question. This being mentioned for comparison to lacquer topcoat vs underhood finishes types of paint.

Firstgenaddict(James) restored a Lemans Blue 69 Z complete with missed spots, overspray  and runs on the dipped parts just as they had originally. Many would think it was a horrible job because it was not flawless, but on a survivor it would be acceptable. His job represents how a car left the assembly line. If two cars had the identical parts and one had flawless paint and one was painted as the factory did, which would win in a show? These are just observations, I don't care what anyone does with a restoration, it is their car.

The originality section is a good source for data, as are others.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 01:09:12 AM by Sauron327 »

jdv69z

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Re: NEW DISCUSSION GROUP (FORUM)? - Classes and Judging Guidelines
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2017, 12:44:02 PM »
I was attending a car show in the past, and the owner of a restored 69 Z/28 told me that he had lost points in the judging at the Nationals because his factory original rear bumper chrome wasn't flawless.  :o
Jimmy V.

Pacecar

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Re: NEW DISCUSSION GROUP (FORUM)? - Classes and Judging Guidelines
« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2017, 02:47:04 PM »
Question would be if the car was entered in a restored class or a survivor class. And question would also be whether the bumper was original or NOS. If it was an original, non NOS bumper entered into a restored class then I can see the issue. I left the GM stickers with the part numbers on the inside of my bumpers to authenticate them as NOS. Still the chrome isn't as nice as a rechromed original. And even if rechromed, one has to be aware of any repairs that were made that are not perfect.

Edgemontvillage

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Re: NEW DISCUSSION GROUP (FORUM)? - Classes and Judging Guidelines
« Reply #48 on: April 15, 2017, 05:27:14 PM »
I was attending a car show in the past, and the owner of a restored 69 Z/28 told me that he had lost points in the judging at the Nationals because his factory original rear bumper chrome wasn't flawless.  :o

Would like to see the judging sheet, often casual explanations don't match the judging reality. "Flawless" isn't a typical judging criteria or standard.   
Lloyd
1969 RS Z/28 (Brooklyn Project)