Caveat Emptor...huh?

[william]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-/112261687166?forcerrptr=true&hash=item1a2351677e:g:~jgAAOSw-0xYQyY~&item=112261687166

Body tag looks new to me. Non-original engine, non-original paint & trim. No mention of trans or axle.

Proceed with caution.

[BULLITT65]

I am unsure about the tag being real or not, but interesting if it is a new tag, that it is still painted the wrong color.

Other thing is this guys description of rare options " rear blinker indicator" , yes the ultra rare turn signal....

[69Z28-RS]

I am unsure about the tag being real or not, but interesting if it is a new tag, that it is still painted the wrong color.

Other thing is this guys description of rare options " rear blinker indicator" , yes the ultra rare turn signal....

One can 'fix' the wrong color cowl plate when it's disassembled to 'black out' the firewall...

and the car DOES have a huge list of options... more than I recall ever seeing on a single car (esp a Z28)...

Williams' note:  PROCEED WITH CAUTION is always a good idea with such an advertised car...

[westonz28]

The" rare blinker indicator" is for cars equipped with fiber optic indicators. It is a rare option and I need the rear one for my 68 Camaro. I have all the front stuff. Just can not see paying the price people want for them. He did not replace the ones on the front fenders.

[BULLITT65]

Well I knew what the fiber optic option was, I  didn't realize you could get it just in the rear. Also power door locks???

Pretty sure that was not an option in 69

[z28z11]

Body tag looks new to me. Non-original engine, non-original paint & trim. No mention of trans or axle.

Proceed with caution.

At least they aren't trying to pass it off as a numbers matching. Shame such a good looking car (and you have to admit it's very well done, pretty) has to suffer a reproduction tag. At least they could have affixed the new one before they sprayed the firewall (lol).

Regards,
Steve

[X33RS]

Is it just me or is this yet another Z28 that can't seem to get the stripes right?

That bugs me like crazy, whether a clone or not, to spend all that money and then mess up something so important and expensive to correct.  The stencil kits and instructions are reproduced and cost next to nothing compared to what they spent on the restoration.

[BULLITT65]

X2, besides running to close together in the rear it looks like they run right under the vinyl top, DOH!

[firstgenaddict]

I could see the rear fiber optic indicator in one of the photos, however it was not available by itself, U46 Vigilight fiberoptic light monitoring is rare and rarely seen, less than 1500 cars out of 240,000.   If the U46 parking lamps are there (provision in the housing for the cable) the possibility exists that it was original to the car, however the fender indicators are missing, which leads one to believe there are more missing parts.

Here is the fender monitor on Dave Beem's L78 conv... along with the window sticker...


Without Factory Paper it would be difficult to determine if a car left the factory so equipped.

[ZLP955]

If the U46 parking lamps are there (provision in the housing for the cable) the possibility exists that it was original to the car

Thought I'd post a picture of one of my U46 parking light housings, in case anyone's interested in the fiber optic cable entry detail:

[bcmiller]

I did not see the VIN posted in this thread for this car.   Here it is...

124379N592877

[william]

Just dumb luck I guess, it was placed in the CRG db 17 years ago. At that time it was logged as an "unknown 8 cylinder" and had a swapped body tag from a late '69 09D car. Today it is a highly optioned Z/28-RS.

May not be the first time these guys tried passing off a clone as the real thing:

http://www.brownsclassicautos.com/vehicles/789/1969-chevrolet-camaro-z-28

124379N555679 was later consigned to B-J Las Vegas 2016. The judges rejected it and they had to revise the description. Sold for $38,500.

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1969-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-Z28-RE-CREATION-198324

[X33RS]

Oh wow, I didn't even pay attention to who was selling.  I know that place.  It's literally a few blocks from Westworld where BJ is held.  I can see the lot from the 101 as you drive by.  Never been in there though but their inventory looks extensive.

Sad you have a place like this literally a stones throw from all the major auction houses, and they are attempting to sell clones as the real thing.

They have a contact on their website.   Anyone try to get in touch with them about the odd history on the car in question?   I wouldn't be surprised if this one along with other inventory makes it to one of the auctions here in a couple weeks.

[william]

Why bother? Think you will get a straight answer? This is directly from their ebay ad for N555679.

This real, X33, 1969 Z/28 Camaro is still powered by it's original, matching number DZ302 engine.

[X33RS]

I wouldn't expect a straight answer but I know how some people can't help themselves, lol.    I hope eagle eyes will be at BJ this year to weed this crap out.

[william]

Barrett-Jackson is as tired of this crap as we are. Their 2017 Scottsdale catalog has a great story about the team of experts they have on staff to weed out misrepresented cars.

I may be wrong but I do not believe any other major auction company does this.

[X33RS]

I think you're right William, I don't believe the other auctions around the area bother with authenticating anything.   I know BJ catches a lot of flack for driving up classic car prices (debatable) but I applaud them for stepping up to the plate and protecting the buyers in these types of instances.

[Classic Gary]

I can't help but think the "green z" at the Las Vegas BJ had something to do with the " they are as tired of this as we are ".

[BULLITT65]

so I have a question, besides vetting real cars, does BJ verify original docs? Like does Jerry or some NCRS judge do this for them?

[william]

There were a few Z/28s there with original window stickers displayed. I'm sure JM saw them. I'm sure he would question repro docs and elevate it to B-J management. They are the final arbitrator. I have seen repro docs there but not lately.

No matter the auction, they all have similar boilerplate in their bidder agreements: You're on your own and we are not responsible if it turns out to be a mutt. No one can fully vet 1,700 cars in the space of a week or so. B-J is the only collector car auction that screens muscle cars and I'm sure it is a big expense for them. But, well worth it.

[BULLITT65]

I would think because they offer some protection with this service, that it attracts more buyers.
I would be interested to hear from X33RS (Larry), or Jack92584 or anyone else, if you were interested in a car, and given that Jerry is on site how much time does he spend with each car? do they have a lift where he verifies drive train? or does he just check the tags, and hidden vin quickly and move on? (considering there are about 50-100 camaros there)

[BillOhio]

I have seen pictures of Jerry having cars on lifts and a couple guys looking them over. Would be very interesting

[jack92584]

Not the first time Browns has misrepresented cars. Heres another that was discussed
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=14669.msg129847#msg129847

I sold my Z @ BJ las Vegas in 2015 one of the first things I did when I got there was to check out the competition. There was another "real Z" that was there that had an obvious fake trim tag. It was only a matter of hours before the original description on the windshield was removed and replaced with a new one that only called the car a Camaro coupe. I assume that it was flagged by JM.

[69Z28-RS]

I can't help but think the "green z" at the Las Vegas BJ had something to do with the " they are as tired of this as we are ".

I'm sure of that!   It undoubtedly resulted from one of their best customers (the LV homebuilder) who got 'took' by a supposed real documented Z that turned out to be a TOTAL fake... and it was you Classic Gary that exposed that lie as I recall... 

PS.  Did you notice that BJ customer turned his $125K 'lemon' into a $145K glass of lemonaide when he sold it off with all his cars a year or two ago?     What that proves *mostly* is that the selling price of cars at B-J depends more on how they are PUSHED by the auction co... than their real value!