Real 69 cowl hood or a reproduction ?

[69 Zee]

This past June I too answered a CL's ad about a 69 cowl hood.  The seller stated he wasn't a Camaro guy and he wasn't sure if it was an original or reproduction but to come look at it and I can decide.  He received it in trade for some work he'd done and it had been hanging in his detached garage for nearly 25 yrs.  I haven't really ever paid attention to what a reproduction looked like but for his asking price I thought I couldn't go wrong either way.  He was asking $120, I got it for $100.

I read over several other cowl thread and from what I've learned ... It has the standard notching (rear side corners) that a real GM cowl hood has but no "week stamp date" on the drivers rear side metal.

My questions are ... does it appear to be GM original ?   and If it's a GM hood, does the lack of a "date stamp" just mean it wasn't a line production hood or could there also be a chance that a line hood was never stamped ?

[69 Zee]

And to add to the mix ... These are pics of my flat hood.  This is to be my original hood to my Z and the dusk blue paint can be seen under the repainted white.  There's no "week stamp date" on my flat hood as well.  Which lead me to asking if it's possible that a line hood was never stamped ?

or have hoods been stamped further up than the lower corner ?

Thanks all

[L78 steve]

ZL2 hood is GM. Probably over the counter replacement.

[ko-lek-tor]

Darrell, Can't rule out hood was replaced? Any signs of a collision? Or hail?

[69z28rsbilly]

Its a GM....
My factory assembly line ZL2 hood has no date stamp numbers etc.

[Sauron327]

The corners and hood bumper discs are not the only telltale sign of a reproduction. Repro hoods have poor definition at the front near the hood latch. Pics here: http://www.camaros.net/forums/12-body-shop/296466-1st-gen-ss-hood.html

I've bought numerous hoods over the years and had to repair them because people are compelled to stand a hood on the corners. A hood will stay upright if stored on its side.

[BULLITT65]

Billy, how do you know yours is assembly line vs. over the counter?
(just curious)

[69 Zee]

Darrell, Can't rule out hood was replaced? Any signs of a collision? Or hail?

Bentley,  None that I can see.  Unless someone popped their big ole behind on the orig.  But all looks to be original.

[69 Zee]

I've bought numerous hoods over the years and had to repair them because people are compelled to stand a hood on the corners. A hood will stay upright if stored on its side.

Scott, much appreciated for pointing that out.  After I pulled them out I rotated them to their sides to clean the edge looking for the stamp.  I left them on their sides, thinking "boy I don't want to bend these corners in".  So yes they all set on the flat sides. 

[69z28rsbilly]

Billy, how do you know yours is assembly line vs. over the counter?
(just curious)

Hey Bullitt 65,
I know the history on the car and it was repainted once.....the repaint is flaking in some areas and a I can see the original paint underneath....
Its a factory ZL2 optioned car....

[BULLITT65]

k. When did you purchase the car?

[firstgenaddict]

01B original paint Yenko with a 53 week stamp.

[69Z28-RS]

Week 53?   Is this a screwup...?   they guy punched 52 last week and just incremented the punch?     Should it have been a '1' punch?

[BULLITT65]

That does seem weird to me as well since mine is 26 on a original paint 08C car.

[X33RS]

I would say that seems a normal date stamp to me when I compare to mine.  My Z is a 12D 68 build so it's about 2 weeks before James' example, and all my body panels on the car are stamped with 50 or 51.   But what confuses me is that I thought the body panel stamps (weeks) started over at the first of the year???

My car is right in about the same week range where the cowl hoods hit production too and the serial number is just a few numbers past the first reported cowl hood car in Norwood which was a ZL1 if not mistaken.

[firstgenaddict]

I would say that seems a normal date stamp to me when I compare to mine.  My Z is a 12D 68 build so it's about 2 weeks before James' example, and all my body panels on the car are stamped with 50 or 51.   But what confuses me is that I thought the body panel stamps (weeks) started over at the first of the year???

My car is right in about the same week range where the cowl hoods hit production too and the serial number is just a few numbers past the first reported cowl hood car in Norwood which was a ZL1 if not mistaken.

No there is a documented 12C Z28 with ZL2. Window sticker - Body broadcast and a folder of paperwork.

As for the Yenko... it is what it is and there is a 53 there.

[Z28Project]

Good info!  I think the first ZL1 is a 12E car.  I have a picture of the trim tag from that car and although I was a few feet away, I think it says 12E.

Nice to know a 12C car had the hood.

[KurtS]

That's all here: http://www.camaros.org/exterior.shtml#cowlhood

[Z28Project]

Off subject, but is it confirmed that ZL1 #1 is a 12E build?

I don't have any other 12E cars in my info collection, and since my trim tag pic is a little fuzzy, I just wanted to make sure I have the correct info.

[william]

Yes both ZL1s #1 & #2 have 12E body tags.

In a 1989 interview Fred Gibb recalled they were delivered on New Years Eve 1968. Probably final-assembled December 30.

[Z28Project]

Thanks!

[X33RS]

That is the one I'm referring to in my post.  I think it's even mentioned in Jerry's book it's one of the first with a cowl hood.  Interesting to note it's a 12E build, but the serial number is before my 12D build, which is what I was talking about in my earlier post, knowing that cowl hoods hit the production line around that time frame.

Must have been some sort of delay to have a tag dated that late with a serial number that is earlier than mine that has it's tag dated a week prior.

[william]

The body tag date has only a general correlation to a cars' final assembly. Our db is sorted by VIN and it is not unusual to see mixed tag dates.

However in the case of these ZL1s it is well-known that Chevy GM Pete Estes personally requested they be expedited. The Broadcast sheets for them state "SHIP 1230 ESTES REQUEST RED HOT PILOT 427 ENGINE OPT 9650BA."

So what held them up? Good question. The check-in sheet with the protect-o-plate imprint for #1 is with the car. The ZL1 engine and BE axle were produced weeks prior to the car; the CX trans was available at the start of 1969 production. Strong possibility it was the ZL2 hood.

[firstgenaddict]

Weren't they waiting on correct carbs in the beginning?
It would be interesting to know what the hood dates were on the first two cars. 

[X33RS]

James,   For some reason I seem to remember the cars were shipped with the incorrect carbs, and it was caught and fixed later when NHRA or AHRA inspected the cars, I think in January at the Winternationals.  Not sure why that is sticking in my head but hopefully that can be clarified.

[X33RS]

The body tag date has only a general correlation to a cars' final assembly. Our db is sorted by VIN and it is not unusual to see mixed tag dates.

However in the case of these ZL1s it is well-known that Chevy GM Pete Estes personally requested they be expedited. The Broadcast sheets for them state "SHIP 1230 ESTES REQUEST RED HOT PILOT 427 ENGINE OPT 9650BA."

So what held them up? Good question. The check-in sheet with the protect-o-plate imprint for #1 is with the car. The ZL1 engine and BE axle were produced weeks prior to the car; the CX trans was available at the start of 1969 production. Strong possibility it was the ZL2 hood.

  That's cool stuff William.  I've read about the vins and mixed tag dates and I simply find it interesting.  I think you told me mine was built around the 27th based off the vin.    Kind of neat that mine was assigned a vin and built right in the middle of the first ZL1 (which had an earlier vin but later tag date)  So there must have been a hangup of some kind on that car, like the cowl hood possibility you mention.  My car got pushed through however, maybe because it's a flathood car.  Kind of makes you think about it.    Just interesting stuff to me.

[Z28Project]

James,   For some reason I seem to remember the cars were shipped with the incorrect carbs, and it was caught and fixed later when NHRA or AHRA inspected the cars, I think in January at the Winternationals.  Not sure why that is sticking in my head but hopefully that can be clarified.

Yeah, I looked at the original drag tests in SS&DI and you can see it looks like a regular 780 Holley with vac. secondaries.

[william]

Most if not all of them were built with 4346 carbs. May not be because of a shortage however. Production ZL2 air cleaners had a 90º vent tube in the base. The tube will contact the rear lever on a DP carb, causing all sorts of problems. Possibly this was noted during production and the short-term fix was to use a different carb. Gibb recalled Chevy sending someone to the dealership to retrofit the 4296 DP carbs. Maybe fitted a thicker gasket also.

Every service ducted hood air cleaner I have seen has a vent tube with 2 45º bends which clears the pump. The 09D survivor '69 Z/28 discussed on the site has the later air cleaner with the bead in the base but still has the 90º vent tube.

[Petes L48]

Looking at a 1968 (which was a leap year) calendar, I wonder if the 53 stamp represents the short and final week in December, where Monday was the 30th and Tuesday the 31st? 

[X33RS]

It would be interesting to know what the hood dates were on the first two cars. 

Could we make a pretty good guess based off my car?  Since mine is a 12D and estimated to be finished on 12-27-68, and since the first ZL1 started right before my car and was finished just a couple days after.

All my original panels are dated 50 and 51.  So if the ZL2 hood was part of the delay and the car went out days after mine (which put it into the very next week of Dec) then would it be safe to assume the hood may have a date of 52, or maybe 53 like the yellow Yenko in an earlier post here??  Pete's thought about the leap year is pretty interesting. 

[69Z28-RS]

Looking at a 1968 (which was a leap year) calendar, I wonder if the 53 stamp represents the short and final week in December, where Monday was the 30th and Tuesday the 31st? 

I suspect Pete is right; I had that thought after I posted my prior post questioning what the 53 meant...  7x52 is only 364 days, so there's always a day or two 'extra' above 52 weeks, and with the first weeks of a calendar year sometimes being shorter, that can make for a year having 53 'manufacturing weeks'...