Author Topic: Vin vs Build Date  (Read 6664 times)

pjbizjak

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Vin vs Build Date
« on: May 11, 2017, 03:00:43 AM »
I was surfing through E-Bay looking at 68 camaro z/28's and there are two big $$ ones that caught my attention. 1 is a 04B build with a vin of 412127 and a 04C build with a vin of 415978. Now these seem normal, build date to vin, however my 68 Z/28 is an 04A build with a vin of 413105 which puts my Z in between the other two. Is that possible?

Pete

Mike S

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Re: Vin vs Build Date
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2017, 03:05:26 AM »
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KurtS

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Re: Vin vs Build Date
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2017, 05:03:08 AM »
There isn't a sharp cutoff as build weeks transitioned from one week to the next.
And your car is late for a 04A car. What's the body # of your car?
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pjbizjak

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Re: Vin vs Build Date
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2017, 02:19:55 PM »
Kurt, Is this it NOR111093?

william

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Re: Vin vs Build Date
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2017, 03:21:08 PM »
Adding to the variables, Camaros were not built in VIN order.
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69Z28-RS

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Re: Vin vs Build Date
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2017, 04:05:29 PM »
Adding to the variables, Camaros were not built in VIN order.

William..   Can you please clarify?   Are you saying they aren't necessarily 'finished' in VIN order?   Don't they begin the build process in VIN order???
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william

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Re: Vin vs Build Date
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2017, 05:04:29 PM »
Camaro body sub-assemblies were built by Fisher Body in a facility adjacent to Norwood final assembly. Bodies were assembled less front sheet metal, painted, with seating and interior soft trim installed. When complete, bodies were received by Norwood assembly in an area known as the Body Bank. VIN assignment, consisting of the last six digits of the legal VIN, was completed in order in the body bank as completed bodies flowed in from Fisher. This number was stamped into the body in two areas. The VIN tag was not produced at this time. The dealer order for the unit was then reviewed for build content and the body moved to one of the six marshaling lanes in the Body Bank, some lanes designated for specific, higher labor content units. When the next spot on the assembly line opened [every 63 seconds] another body was released to the line from the bank based on scheduling rules to maintain line balance. For example high labor content builds; A/C, RS, etc., would not be released consecutively. If the last unit released was an RS with a console, the next one might be a standard car without a console. Thus, bodies became shuffled in the bank. 512346 for example, might be released prior to 512340. It was possible for a higher labor unit to remain in the bank for nearly a full shift; as many as 400 Camaros with later VINs would be built prior to it. The release generated Body & Chassis Broadcast copies [BBC & CBC] to sub-assembly stations throughout the plant. Broadcast copies had a 3-digit sequence number; for the most part that is the order in which cars were final-assembled. However I have seen a broadcast copy with a notation stating an out of sequence series.   

Every work day at the end of second shift, production stopped. If 512346 was one of the last cars to be completed Tuesday, 512340 would be one of the first cars completed Wednesday. Probably a common occurrence.

Check out John Z's excellent review of the 1st Gen assembly process.

http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml


« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 09:52:25 PM by william »
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jdv69z

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Re: Vin vs Build Date
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2017, 07:31:48 PM »
So if a body remained in the bank for nearly a whole shift, it could be coming off the end of the assembly line behind a completed car with a VIN 400 or so units later? (Hypothetical Example: 516355 could come off the assembly line behind 516755. 57 cars/hour x 8 hours/shift = 456 cars/shift)
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JKZ27

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Re: Vin vs Build Date
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2017, 08:15:22 PM »
Pete, does it sound like your car got hung up on the Fisher side? We're talking about the trim tag 04A that got a VIN after a 04B?
John
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william

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Re: Vin vs Build Date
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2017, 09:54:57 PM »
Yes a car could get hung up for an entire shift in final assembly but likely not a regular occurrence. I revised my post.

A body would not get 'hung up' at Fisher but a released production order might. Our '67 Z/28 project of decades ago had me wondering. VIN was N2510xx, tag date 06E. Original engine was V0706MO. How does a June car get a July engine? Wasn't built in June-all other N251xxx VINs in our db have 07B tags. For some reason the build order was released at Fisher, tag punched, order went on hold.

Not much point in building a body that can't be final-assembled for some reason.
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KurtS

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Re: Vin vs Build Date
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2017, 04:25:31 AM »
Pete,
Yes, that's the number. It fits with the 04A build date.

I doubt cars were kept in the body bank very long. The bank balanced out the station workloads, but there were always cars of all 6 categories coming into the bank, so all 6 lanes would be exiting regularly (but out of VIN sequence).
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jdv69z

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Re: Vin vs Build Date
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2017, 01:41:17 PM »
That's kind of what I had interpreted. I would think if there was some issue to cause the hold up of a given car, it wouldn't be released into production at all until the issue was resolved. Eg parts not available, etc. Wouldn't Chevrolet be in control of what bodies were released to Fisher to be built, ie, Fisher built bodies ordered by Chevrolet?
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william

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Re: Vin vs Build Date
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2017, 02:56:17 PM »
Chevrolet instructed Fisher as to which production orders to release. An order release is based in part on having all materials available to build the car. 1960s Production Control was crude at best, probably based on manual counts. So the order for the Z/28 was released; turns out there are no 302 engines in stock. All released orders are placed on hold; unreleased Z/28 orders are delayed.

Chevrolet Production Control problems were touched upon in John De Loreans' book On A Clear Day You Can See General Motors
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pjbizjak

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Re: Vin vs Build Date
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2017, 02:10:02 AM »
Thanks to all who contributed to this post, it was very informative!

Pete

67jeffreyt

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Re: Vin vs Build Date
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2017, 05:07:36 PM »
Awesome read, I love the information, thank you too
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