69 Z shifter

[X33RS]

Just a ball park.  What is the going rate for a complete shifter assembly these days?  The rods, housing, stick and knob that is complete, correct, and in perfect working order.

[JoeC]

are you looking for restored or unrestored survivor condition?

you can get some prices on ebay

there are some on ebay with from about $700 with reproduction parts to a restored/ re-plated one on there for $1500

the original rods are getting hard to find

[X33RS]

Just curious is all.  Helps me to make a decision.  Mine is intact and working fine, my wife just doesn't like the feel of it.  She's used to the aftermarket Hurst Comp Plus that has stop bolts etc....

Since these originals seem to be pricey, I may just bag it and store it away and refrain from any modifications to it.

I see Hurst makes Comp Plus shifters now complete with the round sticks for the factory look.  But there are 2 of them.  One is more of an OEM reproduction but still has stop bolts in the body along with original looking rods.  The other is Comps version of it with their rods, but still has a round stick.  Oddly the OEM reproduction is cheaper.   Here is a link to both.  Anyone use the OEM version?  I'm curious as to why the $100 price difference.  They both still have the round stick.

OEM replacement from Hurst
https://www.hurstshiftersonline.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=340&idcategory=5

Hurst version
https://www.hurstshiftersonline.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=596&idcategory=5 

The biggest difference I see from the 2 is the OEM version having rods that adjust like the 69 shifter, where as the regular Hurst has modern rods and threaded inserts like every other Hurst out there (oddly that's more expensive)    As long as the OEM version still uses the bushing kit on the rods I'll go that route and save $100.  Can't tell in the picture.   Both appear to have the reverse arm that works with the back drive linkage.

Thoughts?

[Stingr69]

OEM repro mounts like the original and uses a GM style mounting plate.  Looks like it may use the aftermarket style bushings at the ends of the rods but who knows.  No rubber ones in pictures so that is probably good.  They were not great.

The aftermarket Comp plus now uses a multi piece mounting plate.  The Comp plus from back in the day actually reused the existing GM mounting plate where most all other applications used a provided generic Hurst mounting plate. 

They are both probably good pieces.

[X33RS]

Thanks Stingr,  I don't see the rubber bushing setup in the OEM style version either, so I'm guessing it uses the bushings that you see in a "pit pack"   Which is one thing I'm after.   I figured someone had tried this so I thought I'd ask.
   I'd like to get away from the rubber, and I'd also prefer some stop bolts in the body, all for a more positive feel.   It appears to have both.

[JoeC]

That original style shifter looks like the cheep rod kit that may not be very strong

there is a cheep repop rod/mt plate/lever  kit for $119

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Camaro-69-Hurst-Shifter-Linkage-Rods-Kit-Small-Block-1969-/252233127379?fits=Year%3A1969%7CModel%3ACamaro&hash=item3aba4415d3:g:yjsAAOSwKtlWhX3n&vxp=mtr

the better repop SB rods are sold just rods for $180

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Camaro-Hurst-shifter-rods-SB-Made-in-the-USA-/271848654498?hash=item3f4b7146a2:g:VX4AAOSwqu9VOYoz&vxp=mtr

1969 Hurst aftermarket shifters for Muncie trans always used a thick mt plate and a spacer plate same for BB and SB
1969 Hurst aftermarket shifters for Saginaw trans told you to use your original rods and mt plate as they didn't make an install kit for 69 Camaro with Saginaw trans

[X33RS]

Thanks for pointing that out Joe.  That very well could be the difference in prices.  Makes me think I should probably go with the second Hurst link for not much more money.

[JoeC]

Whats wrong with your OEM shifter?

If it is rebuilt and set up correctly, it should work OK

The OEM doesn't have the bolt stops and has the rubber isolator mounted chrome stick but should be fine for normal driving. Unless you are racing the car or shifting it hard, you may be better off putting the money into rebuilding your original shifter

[X33RS]

Original shifter is perfect and works great.  I don't mind it at all.  It's my wife that doesn't like the mushy feel it has.  After years of her driving stick cars with Hurst comp plus shifters she is really used to the positive gates, stiffer center spring, and a more positive feel of each gear.
  As decent as the factory shifter is, it still feels empty in each gear, it over shifts without the stop bolts making the throws feel further than they need to be, hard for her to tell where the neutral gate is etc....
  Ultimately it's her car to drive so I'll do what makes her feel happy.  But I'm not going to drill on the housing for stop bolts, change center springs, and drill arms for bronze bushings.   I would much rather bag it, and install an aftermarket with a correct looking stick that hopefully has the tighter feel she wants.   One day when I sell the car I can easily reinstall the original stuff.  I just figured with all the 69's floating around on here that someone has tried one of these shifters and might have some input.   I know the $500 version of the Hurst Comp Plus is a good piece, I was mainly curious of the difference between that and the $400 version they sell.  It's the same body and stick, so I guess those rods are cheap and may not use the bushings.....
   

[Z28Project]

Having a wife that enjoys rowing the gears in a Z/28 is well worth putting in a shifter she likes!!

[69Z28-RS]

so NOW we know who the racer is in your family X33... 

[Kelley W King]

My wife has never complained about the shifter, although I have several cars. If you want to do something original have Danny.s Transmissions in Greensboro NC rebuild you original unit. He has done several for me including my 69 Z. Unless she is trying to lower her ET (then you need a straight line which is not fun on the street) she should be happy. Be proud you have a partner that can and wants to drive a 4 speed.

[X33RS]

Haha, thanks guys.  Yeah I hear about her street escapades on occasion, she loves driving these classic cars.   Just as I do with all my cars, it will eventually see a little strip action in pure stock form to see how this sneaky stocker build runs, so having a perfect working tight shifter is a must for that.  But 99% of the time it's mainly a nice cruiser for my wife.  So I have to keep her happy. 

[jdv69z]

Original shifter is perfect and works great.  I don't mind it at all.  It's my wife that doesn't like the mushy feel it has.  After years of her driving stick cars with Hurst comp plus shifters she is really used to the positive gates, stiffer center spring, and a more positive feel of each gear.
  As decent as the factory shifter is, it still feels empty in each gear, it over shifts without the stop bolts making the throws feel further than they need to be, hard for her to tell where the neutral gate is etc....
  Ultimately it's her car to drive so I'll do what makes her feel happy.  But I'm not going to drill on the housing for stop bolts, change center springs, and drill arms for bronze bushings.   I would much rather bag it, and install an aftermarket with a correct looking stick that hopefully has the tighter feel she wants.   One day when I sell the car I can easily reinstall the original stuff.  I just figured with all the 69's floating around on here that someone has tried one of these shifters and might have some input.   I know the $500 version of the Hurst Comp Plus is a good piece, I was mainly curious of the difference between that and the $400 version they sell.  It's the same body and stick, so I guess those rods are cheap and may not use the bushings.....
   

I'm buying one to install in place of my original. I'll let you know my opinion after I install it and give it a try. I don't know how you cheapen the rods unless they are smaller diameter, but I guess I'm going to find out.

[X33RS]

I was wondering the same thing Jimmy.  I'm guessing like you said, probably smaller diameter, and curious if the arms and levers use bushings.  Interestingly the picture for the $400 shifter doesn't show that detail.

I assume you are going with the OEM $400 replacement?  Yes I'd be very interested in what you think about it.  Let me know.  It will be a few more weeks before I make the move.

[jdv69z]

Received it today, and it's just like the picture, levers already attached to the rods, shifter and ball installed, and no as bushings, as you guessed. I was surprised to see it's already half assembled. I can't believe $100 justifies bushings and rods that are probably 1/16" to 1/8" larger diameter, if they are different? I like what I see so far.

[X33RS]

That says a lot and explains why there is a price difference.  Now we know.  I appreciate the feedback.  If you're happy I may go with it.  Please let me know after install how you like it.

[jdv69z]

The rods do use use nylon bushing where they attach to the shift body levers, just like the competition plus. But not on the levers attached to the trans. Not sure if this is identical to competition plus?

[X33RS]

The other Comp Plus' that I have here all use bushings on both ends.  They come with plastic but I always switch those out for bronze.   So it does sound like there is a difference.  Odd that they charge another $100 just for that.

I'm willing to bet you can drill the levers for the trans to accept the outside diameter of the bushings.  The inside diameter already slides onto the rods, they just don't fit into the levers on the trans without drilling.  That's how the original OEM shifter is on my Z.   I'm just reluctant to drill on the factory stuff.  But I wouldn't hesitate to drill on the aftermarket kit     So even though they don't have bushings on the trans levers, it wouldn't take 5 minutes to correct that and saves $100 from buying the other Comp Plus....Just a thought.

I hope that explanation above made sense.
  Just to add to this, I'm sure you're aware, the factory OEM doesn't use any bushings on either end.  The shifter housing end has impregnated rubber for the rods which even when in good shape will still give a mushy feel.  That's part of what my wife is complaining about.   Even modifying bushings to fit the OEM shifter without modifying the shifter in any way was a lost cause.

[JoeC]

I wonder if the cheep rods are heat treated
The Hurst rods are heat treated (toughened) to resist bending

[Kelley W King]

I have drilled a lever for a back up switch. If they are like mine was they do not drill well.

[BillOhio]

I think I read the made in China reverse rods are not heat treated

[Stingr69]

Comp plus rods are lighter in weight than GM OEM rods.  They worked fine in many cars for many years.

None of the Hurst parts are easy to drill. Very hard stuff.

[X33RS]

Yeah it's hard stuff.  I wasn't drilling my OEM stuff though.  What I was doing was taking bronze bushings and sticking them on the lathe to widdle the OD down to fit the OEM size holes in the levers. They fit the rods fine.  Problem was that they get pretty thin, plus you're still dealing with impregnated rubber at the shifter body, so it turned into being a lot of effort with little gain.  Not to mention there still isn't stop bolts.   

This is what got me onto those 2 shifters offered earlier in this thread.  I got lucky that it just so happens Jimmy is trying one.

[jdv69z]

I am revising my info on the repro Hurst shifter. There are bushings between the linkage rods and the levers which mount to the trans, and they are metal. The levers are plated as are the bushings, so I missed them initially.

[X33RS]

Jimmy, different thread, lol, but I really appreciate the feedback on that shifter.  Please keep me posted when installed, I'd love to hear your feedback on shifter feel, tightness, precision etc...  Thanks.

[jdv69z]

I would think they would be heat treated for hardness and thus wear resistance. That's why you have such a tough time drilling them. Not sure have much increased bending strength heat treating adds?

[BULLITT65]

Heat treating can make a big difference in both. Also they may not use tool steel for the Chinese rods, but I bet Hurst is. It takes quite a bit to bend/drill tool steel.
But remember you can always use more heat to get the bend you want/need.

[jdv69z]

I am revising my info on the repro Hurst shifter. There are bushings between the linkage rods and the levers which mount to the trans, and they are metal. The levers are plated as are the bushings, so I missed them initially.

Oops! Wrong again. No bushings, they are flat washers. I took them apart to grease them. The clearances are pretty tight though.

[JoeC]

do they have round holes in the forward levers or the notched hole ?

The original levers have a notched hole to accept the molded on rubber bushing.

From what I have seen some original levers have the rubber and some don't but all had a notched hole to accept the molded on rubber bushing.

[jdv69z]

Finished installing the repro Hurst shifter. As far As I'm concerned it's identical to a Comp Plus with the exception of no bushing between the 3 rod ends and shift levers at the transmission, and a round shift handle. I'm very happy with it. IMO Can't see spending another $100 for the addition of the bushings.

[Daytona Z]

Haha, thanks guys.  Yeah I hear about her street escapades on occasion, she loves driving these classic cars.   Just as I do with all my cars, it will eventually see a little strip action in pure stock form to see how this sneaky stocker build runs, so having a perfect working tight shifter is a must for that.  But 99% of the time it's mainly a nice cruiser for my wife.  So I have to keep her happy. 

As long as Mama is happy then it's all good. Doesn't everyone have a wife who can row gears in a first gen?

https://youtu.be/fE4Ii3do9U8

[ko-lek-tor]

[quote author=X33RS link=topic=14881.msg132320#msg132320 date=147221534

As long as Mama is happy then it's all good. Doesn't everyone have a wife who can row gears in a first gen?

https://youtu.be/fE4Ii3do9U8

My wife couldn't drive a stick up a dead hog's butt!