Trying to close deal on 69 Camaro-Title Issues

[Z28Project]

I'm trying to buy a 69 Camaro from a guy I've known a long time who bought the car in 1977 and NEVER transferred the title.

He planned to only race the car, so he didn't care about plates or any of that.  He raced it on and off until 1986, and the car hasn't moved an inch since then.  The prior owner was killed in a traffic accident, so the current owner has a title and a death certificate. He checked into what he needs to do, and a notary at a bank said to bring the surviving spouse in to sign (the title I presume) in front of her and she will then notarize it.  He tracked down the dead guys wife (who luckily is still alive and in the area) but she's apparently not wanting to cooperate.  I don't necessarily blame her; after all of these years and maybe old memories of the car and husband, I might not want to either.

I've looked at the title and I don't think there is anything written on it about the sale. I think the wife signed it for the dead owner, and provided the death certificate with it.

I'm not sure if I should let this drag on week after week like it is, or just buy the car, get the title and death certificate myself, and try to resolve it on my own like the current owner never even had the car.

I need to look at the title again and see if she only signed it, or signed and dated it.  If it's not dated I could treat it like I'm buying it from her.  Maybe give her a couple hundred bucks for her trouble?

If it's dated as sold in 1977, then there is the issue of why somebody didn't transfer the title at the time of sale.

It used to be easy to handle this stuff; I have purchased both a car with no title and an old motorcycle that had never been titled and easily got those taken care of, but this seems different, AND I think the laws have tightened up quite a bit in recent years.

Anyone had any similar situations?  Any ideas?

Thanks,  John

[bcmiller]

I would find out exactly what was signed on the title before I did anything.

The guy that has it now should offer to pay the wife something for her time and trouble.  Being nice about it, and offering something in exchange is usually enough to convince most people.

[HawkX66]

I've looked at the title and I don't think there is anything written on it about the sale. I think the wife signed it for the dead owner, and provided the death certificate with it.

I'm not sure if I should let this drag on week after week like it is, or just buy the car, get the title and death certificate myself, and try to resolve it on my own like the current owner never even had the car.

Depending on the state, they don't always require a title on cars that are older than a certain date. Maybe tell the guy you'll buy it contingent upon being able to title it? The date on the title for the sale won't really matter unless they want to hit you with a fine for not titling it within so many days. Again, depends on the state. So you didn't title it. The car sat and was never registered. Happens all the time.
Just be nice and pucker up when you go to the DMV...

[X33RS]

Some states purge the vin from the system if there is no activity on them after 10 years.  Arizona is that way here.  My Z sat for 30 years with no activity and I had to pay a $25 fee to re-enter the car into the system.  Not a big deal.

[bertfam]

What this all boils down to is you NEED to talk to someone at the DMV and see what they say.

"Some states", "My state", "Depending on the state" won't help you. We can guess all day long but in the end, we're not the DMV.

Ed

[maroman]

AND not everyone at DMV will give you the same answer. If you belong to a major car club ask them if they know a car friendly lawyer that takes care of things like this.

[X33RS]

Yes they are all different, just giving an example of how a dead car in the system works in AZ.  Some are easy, some are not.  However this one is going to be a bit more involved and sounds like there are some hoops to get through.

[L78 steve]

Try this. I do this when I have title problems or difficult people. It works, not a scam.

http://www.motorecyclenow.com/title-service.html

[69 Zee]

Try this. I do this when I have title problems or difficult people. It works, not a scam.

http://www.motorecyclenow.com/title-service.html

L78,
Just curious,  this is not a company offering "Bonded Titles" is it ?
Thanks

[HawkX66]

Try this. I do this when I have title problems or difficult people. It works, not a scam.

http://www.motorecyclenow.com/title-service.html

You do realize that the power of attorney you sign for them is not limited to a single vehicle right? You're giving them the legal authority to do whatever they choose with any of your motor vehicles by the looks of it. I don't doubt that it's not a scam, but I don't know "Justin Joy" and I wouldn't give him a power of attorney with that kind of power. Hell, I wouldn't give a close friend that...

POWER OF ATTORNEY
Let it be known to all whom it may concern that I (1.)___________________________________________________
Individuals name
Do hereby appoint Justin Joy of Moto Recycle Title, Schuylkill Haven, PA the Attorney-in-Fact to perform on my behalf all
Work and sign all documents deemed necessary or appropriate for securing title and/or registration of my motor vehicle(s)
Date: __________________
(2)_________________________________________________________
Signature
Date of Birth: ________________________
Personally appeared before me, the above named owner or office, and acknowledged the foregoing instrument as
his/her/their free act and deed.
Date: __________________

[69 Zee]

My guess is this Company gets a "Bonded Title" which is used when someone/firm has obtains a "Certificate of Title Surety Bond" in order to register a vehicle.

If not then give them a try and good luck.   But "IF SO", then it's a risk...IMHO !  As a bonded title is only temporary (some states can take up to 3 years) and if a lien or another issue (stolen) is found against the vehicle then you lose all..the money spent on the bond and the vehicle !

[lakeholme]

Go with the owner and take what you have to the smallest DMV office near you.  Go at the least busy time of day.  Ask them what you need to do...

[L78 steve]

In Vermont there are no titles issued on vehicles over a certain age. Same in NY. So what you get is a transferable reg. that a title state will accept and issue a title upon transfer.
On the power of attorney fear what I did is list only the vehicle That the POA pertained to.
Its not a bonded title.
When I transferred. my 69 Camaro out of NY to NC all I had was the registration cert. That states on it that it is Transferable. 

[elcamino72]

As you have already seen by the responses to your question the answer is truly state specific.  Be ware of the agencies out there that promise you a title by registering the car in another state and then transferring the registration to you.  This could get you in a lot of hot water with both DMVs.  There is a statement on nearly every DMV form that states that the information you are submitting is true and correct and not misleading.  Also by "going around the process" you are not extinguishing the outstanding title rights that someone else may have in the car.  Just an FYI.

[L78 steve]

In the case above the purchaser already has the title. Only the sellers signature needs to be notarized. I would register it in a state that is not a notary state.

[Z28Project]

I appreciate all of the suggestions!  I'm weighing each and every one.

The state is Indiana.  Indiana no longer requires notarized signatures on titles, but I believe that older titles back from when they did require it, still have to be notarized at the time of sale.

I'm trying to get ahold of the guy who owns it so that I can take another look at the title, and make sure I have my facts straight.  I'm almost certain his name is not on the title at all (as purchaser), so I think I could pay for the car, take it and the title/death certificate with me, and then pursue the best solution without him. I don't recall if the seller dated it or not.

Once again, thanks for any and all ideas!   John

[dale_z28]

Some states purge the vin from the system if there is no activity on them after 10 years.  Arizona is that way here.  My Z sat for 30 years with no activity and I had to pay a $25 fee to re-enter the car into the system.  Not a big deal.

Same here. No biggie, and they let me keep my old title from 1977 (I hadn't plated/registered it since '91). That was more important to me than getting the car "back in the books"

[Kelley W King]

NC titles can be notarized out of someones name but not notarized into the new owners name at that time. I think it is called an open title. I did something similar a while back and met the deceased,s spouse at DMV and she had a legal doc allowing her to sign. Since we were both there no problems.

[69pace]

Indiana BMV title page says http://www.in.gov/bmv/2364.htm

The certificate of title must be applied for within 45 days after the vehicle is purchased or otherwise acquired. If the certificate of title is applied for after the 45 days have passed, an administrative penalty will be charged.

If you are buying a vehicle, ensure that the seller has completed in their entirety both the seller and purchaser sections on the certificate of title before visiting a license branch to apply for a new certificate of title. The seller should remove the license plate from the vehicle at the time of the transaction. The purchaser is responsible for obtaining a new certificate of title, registration, and license plate.

So I would assume if he requests a title from them as required by law - and as I read it he should have done so back in the day up to 45 days after he purchased it,  regardless of it being used for racing only as the vehicle is not considered an exempt vehicle due to it being a vin issued vehicle, not a custom specialized piece of machinery, or an off road vehicle by their definitions. They will issue an updated title in his name. He may need to present his bill of sale and the death certificate, but that is not your problem or issue. It is his if he ever intends to sell the vehicle. In any event he should call the BMV to get the particulars in his case.

Once he has legal title to the vehicle in his name he can then sign the title as seller and you can take legal ownership paying the associated fees. Looks very straight forward and as already said they will most likely not give a hoot as long as he is paying the title fees and administration fines for being over 45 days. Money talks.

[Z28Project]

A follow up on this.......everything finally came together.  The current owner of the car was finally able to get the wife of the deceased previous owner to meet with him in the presence of a notary and get it taken care of.  The car is now titled in the current owners name, so the transaction between he and I can now take place!  He did have to pay a minor fee for not transferring the title within 30 days,  39 YEARS   and I found it interesting that they charged him sales tax on the purchase based on the 1977 Indiana rate (4%) instead of todays 7%.

Thanks to everyone for their ideas and suggestions.  It was getting very frustrating as this drug on month after month with no end in sight.

[69 Zee]

That's great news and congrats on your buy.  Next we wanna see pics and what's your plans.

[bcmiller]

Awesome! Yes we need pics.

[Z28Project]

Got it home yesterday!



I started a new thread about the car:  http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=14983.0

John