Author Topic: 1968 Camaro ZJ7 Rally wheens  (Read 6574 times)

fsc66

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1968 Camaro ZJ7 Rally wheens
« on: August 10, 2016, 01:20:06 PM »
In 1968, were disc brakes required in order for you also to have  the optional ZJ7 Rally Wheels. Original Chevrolet Price books under ZJ7 state: "Available with Power Disc Brakes" in the first and second edition, Chevrolet Price and Facts Book, GM Heritage and Finger Tip Facts state the same. 
Have read some posts to the contrary...

Paul

bertfam

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Re: 1968 Camaro ZJ7 Rally wheens
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2016, 04:29:16 PM »
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In 1968, were disc brakes required in order for you also to have  the optional ZJ7 Rally Wheels.

No, there were two 14" rally wheels in 1968. Cars that came with Power Disc Brakes (RPO J50/J52) received the XG wheels, and cars that came with drum brakes got the XN wheels. The XG wheels had a different offset than the XN wheels to clear the brake calipers.

Ed

KurtS

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Re: 1968 Camaro ZJ7 Rally wheens
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2016, 03:32:01 PM »
That's the proof that rallys didn't require discs. But I'm not sure how much of the dealer lit reflected that.
Kurt S
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cook_dw

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Re: 1968 Camaro ZJ7 Rally wheens
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2016, 03:44:48 PM »
Never understood why they would have 2 different wheel offsets..  Just use one that handles both and move on..  Unless it drastically changed the wheelbase specs who would have cared..?.

bertfam

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Re: 1968 Camaro ZJ7 Rally wheens
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2016, 04:27:15 PM »
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Never understood why they would have 2 different wheel offsets..  Just use one that handles both and move on..  Unless it drastically changed the wheelbase specs who would have cared..?

One of the many reasons Chevrolet needed to clean house!

In 1968, Chevrolet had 6 "basic" car models (not including trucks, vans or sub-models like Caprice, El Camino, Chevelle 300, etc...) to choose from:

1. Full size
2. Chevelle
3. Camaro
4. Nova
5. Corvette
6. Corvair

In that year, there were 16 different wheels you could get (which doesn't even include the hub cap options, which was even more)!

In 1969, again, the same 6 basic car models, but now there was over 25 different wheels in the lineup!

Now you can understand why it was such a nightmare trying to sort all this out. Not only from a salesman point of view, but all the way up to supply, assembly and budgeting!

Quote
That's the proof that rallys didn't require discs. But I'm not sure how much of the dealer lit reflected that.

Kurt, my belief is that originally, the 1968 model year was going to be like the 1967 model year (Rally wheels only available with J50/J52), but at some point they decided to offer the Rally wheels to non J50/J52 cars as well, but the documentation never got updated.

The low JZ7 option totals (8,047) reflect this. If you look at the totals for 1968:

235,147 total cars built. Of that, 20,117 came with with J50/J52 disc brakes and 7,199 came with Z28 (which required J50/J52). This leaves 207,831 cars that came with drum brakes.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe the published ZJ7 totals (8,047) include J50/J52 cars, but only drum brake cars. Do you agree?

Ed

cook_dw

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Re: 1968 Camaro ZJ7 Rally wheens
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2016, 06:25:48 PM »
Quote
Never understood why they would have 2 different wheel offsets..  Just use one that handles both and move on..  Unless it drastically changed the wheelbase specs who would have cared..?

One of the many reasons Chevrolet needed to clean house!

In 1968, Chevrolet had 6 "basic" car models (not including trucks, vans or sub-models like Caprice, El Camino, Chevelle 300, etc...) to choose from:

1. Full size
2. Chevelle
3. Camaro
4. Nova
5. Corvette
6. Corvair

In that year, there were 16 different wheels you could get (which doesn't even include the hub cap options, which was even more)!

In 1969, again, the same 6 basic car models, but now there was over 25 different wheels in the lineup!

Now you can understand why it was such a nightmare trying to sort all this out. Not only from a salesman point of view, but all the way up to supply, assembly and budgeting!


Ed I think we are sorta on the same path just in different lanes.  What I meant was they could have simplified the multiple rally wheels and just had one that would work with both disc and drum.  Same for the steel wheels.  69 wouldn't have mattered due to the single piston caliper and again one wheel would have worked for each style of wheel.  Does that make sense?  Maybe Im not seeing the light..

bertfam

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Re: 1968 Camaro ZJ7 Rally wheens
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2016, 06:42:31 PM »
Yeah, I agree. The Chevrolet mantra of making everything interchange with everything else sure got trampled on with regards to wheels!

The XG Rally wheel will fit on a drum brake car just fine, so WHY Chevrolet figured they needed a different Rally wheel for drum brake cars is beyond me. Especially since the offset difference is only .24" (less than a quarter of an inch). The same goes for the standard wheel. Only .24" difference between the FC and XF wheels.

Maybe John can comment on why they did this.

Ed

KurtS

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Re: 1968 Camaro ZJ7 Rally wheens
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2016, 06:29:22 AM »
DeLorean talks about this in his book. There was so much extra complexity due to option variations in Chevrolet that it was killing them. It was a major task of his in the early 70's.
Of course, you can overstandardize and that was the badge engineering of the 80's and 90's.

I agree with Ed - the initial intent might have been Rallys required with discs. Some other 68 lit does not mention any limitations.
Kurt S
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ZLP955

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Re: 1968 Camaro ZJ7 Rally wheens
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2016, 11:28:55 PM »
I can't recall the source, and don't have access to my service manuals right now, but remember reading that there is a difference of about 1/2" in the hub-to-hub mounting faces between disc and drum brakes; could that be why there is (approx) 1/4" difference in rally wheel offset, to compensate and retain the same front track dimension regardless of brake type?
Tim in Australia.
1969 04A Van Nuys Z/28. Cortez Silver, Dark Blue interior, VE3, Z21, Z23, D55/U17, D80, flat hood.
Sold at Clippinger Chevrolet in Covina, CA.
AHRA Formula Stock at Lions Dragstrip, NHRA E/MP at Pomona Raceway

fsc66

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Re: 1968 Camaro ZJ7 Rally wheens
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2016, 11:54:24 PM »
Just as info as stated, the 1968 1st edition (Nov 67) Price and facts book excerpt attached. Odd thing is that if the original intent was to fit only disc brakes with rally wheels you'd think by the second edition the disc brake comments would have been removed. But, 2nd edition (Feb 68) mirrors the first edition as far as how ZJ7 is listed.

Guess just one of those things....

Paul


KurtS

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Re: 1968 Camaro ZJ7 Rally wheens
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2016, 06:20:30 AM »
They were inconsistent.
Kurt S
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fsc66

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Re: 1968 Camaro ZJ7 Rally wheens
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2016, 01:41:09 PM »
Yes, I'll give you that for sure: See finger tip facts listings below which is also a late 1967 publication:


Kurt, not sure what publication your pics came from but GM Heritage under options mirrors the finger tip facts and Price and Facts books. So, perhaps this was another one of those early things like "bumble bee" stripes starting with D91 in 68 then changing to D90.
Only surprising thing I am seeing is the 2nd edition price book lists the same where as many other changes were updated. I wonder what's the date of the GM publication change or if there were any AIM's or Engineering changes that depicted this change......
Paul

KurtS

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Re: 1968 Camaro ZJ7 Rally wheens
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2016, 06:20:57 AM »
I don't know of early 68 cars with rallys but not discs *and* documentation, but there are several early cars with rallys but not discs that are very original.
Kurt S
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