1969 Camaro Z/28 Survivor

[PURESS]

for your viewing


http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/cto/5702231755.html

[william]

Seems like it could be a decent buy. But it was posted 10 days ago. By now someone has checked it out.

[jdv69z]

Any idea on VIN?

[ko-lek-tor]

NOM, Repaint??? Survivor?? 1st mis-representation right there.

[Kelley W King]

Sounds like mine ,62,000 miles one repaint, NOM 302, original interior except carpet and front seats. No docs but NCRS verified Scuncio Car. Gives me a place to think about value of future sale.

[Kelley W King]

 I sent a post about my car before I saw the last post. I have never called my car a survivor. Now my 69 L78 , CE block, CX turbo, original interior, rear end, dated Holley which I think is too rare to be found and owner history back to 77 last repaint (talked to them by phone) I still do not refer to it as a survivor. Too many under hood parts not original. But my CX has the vin on it. It is a ball of fire to drive.

[bcmiller]

The term Survivor is WAY overused.

[BULLITT65]

Any 40+ year old car still on the road qualifies as a survivor these days....

I like the color. Just like Bills car, that color can really deep.

[BillOhio]

There was one at mecum harrisburg in Burgundy that brought 60. I haven't talked to Chick to see the deal on it. It was called a survivor but no real info listed and it had a rear antenna that didn't look right

[bcmiller]

Any 40+ year old car still on the road qualifies as a survivor these days....

Incorrect.

[william]

I believe the NCRS allows repaints in their survivor class. And no one questions John Z's car, which has a warranty shortblock.

It's a term subject to interpretation.

[BULLITT65]

I believe the NCRS allows repaints in their survivor class. And no one questions John Z's car, which has a warranty shortblock.

It's a term subject to interpretation.

I agree it is all in the eyes of the "seller" these days, and each seller makes his best case of how their car should be considered a survivor.
"it has all original panels"
" it was repainted in the original colors"
"replacement motor was built using original specs or parts"
"original owner put new quarters on the car to keep it in pristine condition"
" Car only has 15k miles and was treated to a full restoration"
I have seen all these descriptions and more, used to classify a classic car as a survivor.

I think it is just easier to say unrestored vs. restored, and even then there is some grey area on what has been maintained vs left to age.

I like Cooks car that he got from his dad. Darrell does a great job of keeping up on it and maintaining it so it can be driven. To me his car fits what I would consider unrestored. I would also put Gary's Orange RS Z in there. Just my 2 cents

[bcmiller]

I believe the NCRS allows repaints in their survivor class. And no one questions John Z's car, which has a warranty shortblock.

It's a term subject to interpretation.

Just like "matching numbers" for some people.

My ideas for a Survivor include...
1. Original or mostly original paint.
2. Original or mostly original interior.
3. Original engine, transmission and rear axle plus most additional components (carb, distributor, alternator, starter, etc.)

A car with dealer warranty work, and paperwork to back it up - can be given some wiggle room.

[bcmiller]

I don't think NCRS has a "Survivor" designation.

That's Bloomington Gold.
http://www.bloomingtongold.com/index.php/events/classic-events/judging/survivor-corvette

The SURVIVOR®  Award is designed to recognize those Corvettes that are "worn in, but not worn out." A SURVIVOR Corvette is significantly unrestored, unrepaired, or unmodified and meets these requirements:

Is over 20 years old
Can pass a road test over 10 miles
Retains OEM engine
Remains unrestored, un-refinished, or unaltered;
50% or more in all four sections to attain SURVIVOR Bronze
66% or more in all four sections to attain SURVIVOR Silver
80% or more in all four sections to attain SURVIVOR Gold

Retains finishes good enough to use as a color guide for restoration of a car just like it.

[cook_dw]

I'm not considering my car as anything other than an unrivaled treasure.. . But I'm biased.

[ZLP955]

Usage of 'survivor' increased with the rise in popularity of so-called 'barn finds' (another over-used term) as opposed to full concours trailer queen restos. Take such a description with a pinch of salt until you can inspect it.
Not trying to stir the pot either, but on a similar subject, I am also very skeptical when owners describe their car as 'original, untouched, never apart'; how can they be certain, unless they bought it new and have total recall on everything done (including dealer servicing) in the intervening 45-50 years?

[X33RS]

I'm somewhat familiar with what bcmiller described have had a 71 454 corvette with 30k miles.  So I feel as most do that this car in question having been repainted and an engine change doesn't really qualify as a survivor from my point of view.


I do like it though, neat car and love the color combo with the white guts.

[69Z28-RS]

I don't think NCRS has a "Survivor" designation.

That's Bloomington Gold.
http://www.bloomingtongold.com/index.php/events/classic-events/judging/survivor-corvette

The SURVIVOR®  Award is designed to recognize those Corvettes that are "worn in, but not worn out." A SURVIVOR Corvette is significantly unrestored, unrepaired, or unmodified and meets these requirements:

Is over 20 years old
Can pass a road test over 10 miles
Retains OEM engine
Remains unrestored, un-refinished, or unaltered;
50% or more in all four sections to attain SURVIVOR Bronze
66% or more in all four sections to attain SURVIVOR Silver
80% or more in all four sections to attain SURVIVOR Gold

Retains finishes good enough to use as a color guide for restoration of a car just like it.

Per their website:  (http://www.ncrs.org/services/judging-awards.php) 
The following recognitions are NCRS 'survivor type of awards':

NCRS STAR AND NCRS CHEVROLET BOWTIE Award 

NCRS Star and Bowtie Awards are earned only at National Conventions by unrestored cars successfully judged and voted to be historically and educationally significant in any one or more of four areas (Interior, Exterior, Mechanical, and Chassis). The award is intended to recognize the car and encourage the owner to retain and display the car in its present condition for the enjoyment and continuing educational benefit of our membership. NCRS One-, Two- or Three-Star Awards are achieved by a successful judging and voting in any one, two or three of the four listed areas. The NCRS Chevrolet Bowtie Award is achieved by a successful judging and voting in all four areas. Subsequent to this judging, the NCRS Chevrolet 5-Star Bowtie Award may be achieved as described in item #12 of the NCRS Judging Reference Manual. Only 304 Corvettes have received this prestigious award.

NCRS - CHEVROLET CROSSED FLAGS Award 

This award was created by the National Corvette Restorers Society in 2006. The NCRS Chevrolet Crossed Flags Award is intended to recognize exceptional original, un-restored cars and encourage the owners to retain and display the car in its present condition. The NCRS Chevrolet Crossed Flags award is earned only at a National Convention by un-restored cars successfully judged and voted to be historically and educationally significant in four areas (Interior, Exterior, Mechanical and Chassis). This award is available to 1984 and newer Corvettes currently judged by NCRS that have received an NCRS McLellan Mark of Excellence award. Regardless of change in ownership or judging result the car may never be presented for judging again. The judged section requires a 90% pass with the following standard “Does the item, part, fabric, plating or coating appear to actually be that which was specifically installed or applied on this car at the time of manufacture”. If this is successfully passed the vote with the following standard “Does the area judged display significant educational and historical value which should be preserved in its present condition” is taken. Passing both sections in all four areas earns the NCRS - Chevrolet Crossed Flags award. Only 41 Corvettes have received this award.

[maroman]

Everyone wants their cars in these elite classes and clubs want as many people to be happy as possible. AACA has the HPOF class and the rules have become so lax just about anything qualifies. So they established HPOF " supreme" or "most benevolent" or whatever they call it and almost everything that was in the regular class has been allowed into the elite class too. I know several cars with full repaints, full interiors, and tops that are in the MOST original class. It started with everyone getting a gold star in grade school and a trophy for T-ball.

[Dusk_Blue_Z]

This car has been for sale on and off for at least the last five years, for about the same price. I've never gone to check it out, didn't want to waste his time. If someone is seriously interested, I'd be happy to go get numbers. The car is about 20 minutes from me.

[firstgenaddict]

It's been bug bombed under the hood, however enamel reducer and rags most likely could eliminate that... Probably has a nice firewall which in all likely hood could be recovered.

[cook_dw]

No matter how you slice it this car is not a "survivor" by my terms and conditions..

[JKZ27]

Yeah, Darrel. A lot of cars survived the last 45 years including this one. But, we really love the ones that retain the original components AND finishes. On this one neither the paint nor the engine survived and a painted firewall is "repaired" or "customized" in my book. Doesn't make it any less an awesome car, just ain't one of our "Survivors".

Perhaps the seller is implying this car was featured in the "Eye Of The Tiger" music video.??

[6667ss138]

No matter how you slice it this car is not a "survivor" by my terms and conditions..

X2

[X33RS]

Maroman hit the nail on the head.  It used to be reserved for the elite, the best of the best, and everything was scrutinized.  That's how I remember it from years ago.  Now they have multiple classes and designations to make everyone happy.  I understand why,  as these cars get older things need replacing over time, and it's also a money thing I'm sure, increasing the car count and participation as popularity grows has something to do with it.  Unfortunately I feel it's ruined the original intent of qualifying a car as a survivor and now we have people abusing the term, going as far as to call their own car a survivor without actually going through the process.

If you're going to call it, sell it and/or advertise it as a survivor, I feel it better have the documentation showing how well it scored while going through the process of certifying it.