Author Topic: Canadian Doc's  (Read 11117 times)

cancam69

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: Canadian Doc's
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2016, 02:16:01 PM »
I don't know much about Canadian documents, but one must remember that documents can be (and are) faked

If someone didn`t like or didn`t trust my `Canadian documents` in hand as real - assuming I was selling it, all I would have them do to put their mind at ease would be to give them George Zapora`s number or someone else at GM Vintage services. Then they could get it validated over the phone (if they still do that - as he confirmed my car for me as a Z28 model from the VIN, prior to my buying the car some 26 years ago) or for a prospective and serious buyer, the relatively small fee of $100 gets them the documentation package so they themselves can read it and check the car and the as delivered options against what they are looking at..
Unless they don`t trust GM itself, I can`t think of a better way to put a prospective buyer at ease with such a purchase...  But that's just my own personal opinion..  Randy

I agree Randy....the Can Doc's are/ were a great paper trail to have on the Authenticity of a Car....not sure how that plays out today as the last time I checked the Can GM Vintage Services......I noticed that George has gone on his own now...George is a great guy and a straight shooter, I had a 69 that we always thought was a US sold Car, when I called George he said send in the VIN and if its not a Can Car...no charge, I was surprised to find out that it was a Can sold car so he sent in the paper work with a nice package, all for 50 bucks back then....not sure how it works now as it looks like he went on his own, I could be wrong....I believe George frequents this site, perhaps he can verify....I agree with everyone else as well, that nowadays, we are better informed on the First Gens today than I when I first got into the Hobby.....I love Original Cars but today for some reason, the plain Jane Coupes appeal to just as much or more because every 69 Camaro at the Cruise nights is an SS or a Z/28....out of 10 in the Lot...1 may be a real one....this Forum has really opened my Eyes ever since I joined...and I still learn new things today about these Cars

jdv69z

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1275
  • 69 RS Z/28 52E
    • View Profile
Re: Canadian Doc's
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2016, 01:32:10 AM »
On the other hand, if we are talking about 68's or early 69's before the X codes, or a Van Nuys built 69, then paperwork is almost a must have.   You really have to do your homework.

FYI I have an early 69 Z, Oct 68 Norwood build, and it has an X code. Just not on the trim tag.
Jimmy V.

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
Re: Canadian Doc's
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2016, 12:22:29 PM »
That's one of the many examples of what I meant about doing your homework.  Most aren't aware of grease pencil X codes on the bulk head.   As more of that gets out we really have to be cautious of things like that being very easily duplicated.
  The data plates are still pretty concrete though at this point.  Easy to spot a fake, or rivets being tampered with raises a red flag.  For safety sake I stick to those cars.  Without that you really have to scrutinize, and without original paperwork there are no guarantees.
  It's kind of nice actually that Norwood Camaros started doing that making them easier to document.  Ford and Pontiac (depending on year) almost always had something in their vins that denoted the car as what it is, (for instance 242 in the vin and you know you're looking at a real GTO) and with Marty and PHS, they are easy (and cheap) to obtain paperwork so they have a huge advantage on the collectability market.    Chevy has always been lacking in that department.  With a data plate that tells little to nothing and a vin that is useless up through 1971, that's where original paperwork pays dividends.

Hans L

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 380
    • View Profile
Re: Canadian Doc's
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2016, 04:24:49 PM »
While original paperwork is neat, I've never banked all that much on it when it comes to the 69's.  Stick to the Dec 68 and later Norwood build dates with X codes and you'll know what you're getting without the paperwork.

How about '69 Van Nuys built Camaros with a legible Chassis Broadcast copy, highlighting the build config and options?   ;)
https://www.instagram.com/69camarorsz28/
'69 Camaro RS Z/28 Van Nuys Built
'69 Chevelle SS 396 4 Speed

68 Ragtop

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 470
    • View Profile
Re: Canadian Doc's
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2016, 04:44:45 PM »
Canadian documents are great, but entire cars have been built around documents. From the VIN tag on up. It's rare to have that happen, but I have read about it happening with very high value cars.

bcmiller

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4030
    • View Profile
Re: Canadian Doc's
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2016, 06:27:59 PM »
There have been attempts to fake about every type of document or stamp. Few if any can past a pass a test of those knowledgable in the field. Ask others if they think something is genuine or not - if you aren't sure. It's  best to look at EVERYTHING.

Paperwork should match what is on the car, and if it doesn't, then put on your "detective hat" and figure out what is wrong. The higher the price, the more you should scrutinize things.

Nothing gets me more upset than someone trying to deceive others about these cars.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: Canadian Doc's
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2016, 07:38:14 PM »
Most, if not all of us, here on this site agree 100% with your sentiments on this Bryon!
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
Re: Canadian Doc's
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2016, 11:17:26 PM »
While original paperwork is neat, I've never banked all that much on it when it comes to the 69's.  Stick to the Dec 68 and later Norwood build dates with X codes and you'll know what you're getting without the paperwork.

How about '69 Van Nuys built Camaros with a legible Chassis Broadcast copy, highlighting the build config and options?   ;)

Yup that would be one possible piece of original paperwork, a good thing with a Van Nuys car.   If that were lost over the years though and nothing but the sellers word.....then like Bryon says, put on your detective hat because the data plate won't tell you anything.

restore-z28

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 288
    • View Profile
Re: Canadian Doc's
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2016, 02:08:01 PM »
Interesting debate, I live in Canada and had/have lots of opportunity to buy Canadian GM documented cars without OE engines, trans etc. The last two Z's I have purchased were out of the US, both numbers matching and with original paperwork. For me getting a numbers matching car with documentation made more sense than buying something with GM Canada docs and no OE drivelines. I agree the GM Canada docs are pretty much bullet proof but human nature is not....Re-bodied cars and other funky stuff people do to make money happens all the time. A few years ago I checked out a '69Z with GM Canada docs, was a rare car as it had an unusual color combo, upon my inspection I found a fake trim tag and the vin plate on dash did not have the original rivets...but the owner was bragging about the GM Canada docs, I left the car where it sat and apparently it was sold to an unsuspecting buyer who bought into that hype of GM Canada docs. 
Sonny
1969 Z28 Camaro, sold :-(
1970 Z28 Camaro
www.camaros.ca

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: Canadian Doc's
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2016, 03:00:21 PM »
YOU clarified the situation very well!!    ie. Docs are nice, but you still have to do your homework!!    Thanks for your input.. :)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

firstgenaddict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2882
  • caretaker of 1971 LT1's 11130 & 21783
    • View Profile
    • Groome Family Automobiles
Re: Canadian Doc's
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2016, 05:26:41 PM »
The reproduction window stickers are horrible, there has never NEVER been a fully correctly coded repro window sticker, the ECL codes in 1969 are a nightmare for forgers.
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: Canadian Doc's
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2016, 07:08:15 PM »
James, I would bet you intended that post for the 'window sticker' discussion, rather than the canadian docs thread?? :)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

 

anything