Author Topic: '68 Z28 - Need shifter options vs. the original Muncie shifter  (Read 6915 times)

barsteel

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Hello!

After completely overhauling the brakes in the '68 Z28, I finally took it for a shakedown run yesterday.  I bought the car over a year ago from NC, but haven't put any miles on it.  It's a documented numbers matching unrestored survivor (except for a really crappy mid-80s enamel paint job), and I spent the time since purchasing it getting all of the little stuff working...clock, gauges, locks, etc.

Anyway, the car ran really well...BUT, it has the original Muncie shifter, which, IMHO is biggest POS shifter I've ever used.  I constantly miss gears, hit 3rd instead of 1st and vice versa, it's sticky, notchy, and just doesn't work very well.  Granted, it's probably worn out, so maybe I shouldn't be so harsh on it, but the long and the short of it is, I need a new shifter in order to comfortably drive the car.

Is there an option to get a new Hurst mechanism and use the  Muncie handle for originality?

If not, what have others used with success?  Can the original shifter be rebuilt?   If it can, can I expect decent performance from it?

What have others done?

Thanks...

Chris

vtfb68

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Re: '68 Z28 - Need shifter options vs. the original Muncie shifter
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2016, 10:27:57 PM »
Chris,
 There is a recent thread here that details a Muncie rebuild, good reading. I understand that the speedometer cable will interfere with a Hurst shifter ( I am not 100% sure of that).
    If the car is all matching the rebuilt original would be my choice.  Pictures?
      VT
68 05C LA RS/SS U2 712 L34 M21 BR
68 08E LA RS Y2 749 L30 M35
67 11B LA  RS/SS M-1 797-Z L48 M21  Convertible

1968RSZ28

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Re: '68 Z28 - Need shifter options vs. the original Muncie shifter
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2016, 11:46:49 PM »
Chris,

I recommend the Hurst Competition Plus Shifter.  It does not interfere with the speedometer cable.

The problem with the Muncie shifter is it mounts to the cross member.  If there is any play in your engine or transmission mounts (or if they are broken) and you're on the gas, it's hard to shift.  The same is true if the Muncie shifter stabilizer shaft is loose and/or the stabilizer bar bushings are worn.

I'd go with the Hurst shifter and keep the Muncie on the shelf if you want to drive the car like it was meant to be driven!

Paul

z28z11

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Re: '68 Z28 - Need shifter options vs. the original Muncie shifter
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2016, 02:04:46 AM »
Ditto to Paul's response.

Find a used Muncie shifter or just the handle, install a Competition Plus Hurst, measure the handle height off your original Muncie, cut it, drill it, bolt it to the Hurst body, and enjoy it. Console car ? Viewers will never know. Non console car ? Same deal. Put the original Muncie away and enjoy driving the Z like it was intended.

I'm as much an originality fan as anybody, but the infirmities of the Muncie shifter make smooth shifting nearly impossible

Pic 1 - modified handle from someone's attempt at building a Munice console shifter adapted to a Hurst handle end. Artful, but ugly.

Pic 2 - measured location for cutting the old handle, drilling with the Hurst mounting holes for bolting to a Competition Plus console shifter body. Re chrome, and I'm installing it -

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W 1967 Chevy ll Nova SS 
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06  1949 3100 5wd 235/6

Dusk_Blue_Z

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Re: '68 Z28 - Need shifter options vs. the original Muncie shifter
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2016, 01:04:11 AM »
I know you are asking for shifter advice, but if you do any amount of cruising in your Z, ditch the Muncie and external linkage setup and install a Tremec. I had the same issues with the shifter, such a PIA. I've never missed a shift AND I have OD. Its a perfect combo for these cars.
1969 X77 01B 51 51 flat hood

rare396bronze

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Re: '68 Z28 - Need shifter options vs. the original Muncie shifter
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2016, 03:34:30 AM »
I took the original shifter out my big block car years ago. Went with the competition plus shifter had no more problems after that was smooth and was easy to install. You will like how it works. But also have a Muncie handle cut down to work on the car. Just trying to find time to put on.

bcmiller

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Re: '68 Z28 - Need shifter options vs. the original Muncie shifter
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2016, 02:30:30 PM »
Competition Plus is the only way to go.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

barsteel

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Re: '68 Z28 - Need shifter options vs. the original Muncie shifter
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2016, 04:21:24 PM »
Thanks to all for the replies.

Looks like a Comp Plus is the hands down favorite.

I really like the Tremec option as well, as a longer term solution, since it's pretty wearing driving the car on the highway turning 4500rpm at 70mph.

I have T5s stacked like cordwood in my garage.  They're non world class V8 boxes from mid-80s Camaros.  Has anyone used the T5?  Yes, I know that it's not up to the HP/torque that the 302 puts out, but that's only if you hammer the crap out of it.  I catch gears when I'm shifting (kinda hard not to, actually), but I don't plan on doing any long, smoky 8 grand clutch dumping posi hole shots in the future.

Thoughts on the T5, while of course keeping the numbers matching M20 and Muncie shifter on the shelf?

Chris


KurtS

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Re: '68 Z28 - Need shifter options vs. the original Muncie shifter
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2016, 03:26:55 AM »
On the trans option, here's some numbers.
69 Camaro overall trans ratio: 2.2 or 2.52
Tremec TKO overall: 4.8
2015 Corvette auto: 7.0

Summation - old transmission ratios (auto and manual) are very limited.
Kurt S
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X33RS

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Re: '68 Z28 - Need shifter options vs. the original Muncie shifter
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2016, 01:49:31 PM »
Here are my thoughts,,,
   I do a lot of TKO swaps here as the overdrives are very popular living out here in the desert with 100 miles between towns.  I always get 2-3 of these swaps a year.  In the Camaro the TKO gets a little tight right at the shifter hole but otherwise fits nicely.

Another transmission I like even better that is about 3-4 years old now is the completely revamped TKO from Legend.  This transmission shrunk in size and fits better (no mods to install), has better gear ratios, (1st isn't so darn steep) and fits with no modifications at all, and even works with the stock crossmember.  It's also stronger and rated for 700 ft lbs.  Another feature I like it that it's a single rail shifter (TKO is a 3 rail) so it's much smoother to shift and will power shift up to 7500 rpm, has better sincros as well.  It's just all around a huge improvement over the TKO's.  They are however about $800 more expensive.  Likely the last transmission you'll have to buy.

The TKO's have that 2.87 first gear.  That gets to be a little too steep for my liking if you run anything more than a 3.55 rear.  Plus the rpm drops between gears is a little more than I like as well.  Goes from a 2.87 to a 1.89....Eh

Legend fixed that issue with their 2.66 first gear.  With 3.73's it's a beautiful combo to drive.  It's a close ratio box so it keeps the engine in the sweet spot, and a .69 overdrive for cruising. 

I've run 2.52 muncies with 3.07-3.08 gears as drivers and that's about the limit for me as far as first gear goes.  Drives around fine and still able to cruise 70 on the highway.  A 2.20 Muncie really limits your options though.  Anything less than a 3.55 rear and that 2.20 is a bear around town.  So the wide ratio Muncie box is my favorite as far as Muncie's go, because it just gives you more rear gear options to make the car at least a little more drivable.

Still not enough, then my opinion, I wouldn't even think about a T5.  I don't care for the 3.27 first gears most of them had, even makes a 3.73 gear about useless for anything on the street.  When it comes to a driver,  I'm not a fan of moving the car 10 feet and having to look for another gear before I can get across the intersection.  Not to mention those transmissions were marginal even behind those smog motors they came in.  In a performance application the T5 is at the bottom of the list for me.

I'm putting our Z back together as a bone stocker for my wife to drive daily.  She'll start off in the Muncie but there is a good bet as we plan to take long trips in the car to places like Nevada, and Cali, that a 5 speed will wind up in the car.   I'll go straight for the Legend trans, just have a new driveshaft made and it's a drop in deal with no cutting. The 2.66 first gear is perfect and the .69 overdrive will cruise at 75 mph at about 2200 rpm with 3.73's out back.  I'm thinking more along the lines of less wear and tear on this very expensive engine build I just finished, LOL.  I don't care so much about gas mileage.  Neat thing is that when this trans is done in the Z, the Muncie drops right back in and I can use the Legend trans in any other car I choose.   If you drive the car enough you'll get your money's worth out of it.   If you only drive it a few times a month, especially if you live in a seasonal climate that limits your driving, then I wouldn't even consider an overdrive, I'd just run a 2.52 Muncie and knock some rear gear out of it.  Much cheaper option for those that only drive maybe 2,000-3,000 miles a year.

janobyte

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Re: '68 Z28 - Need shifter options vs. the original Muncie shifter
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2016, 09:30:31 PM »
Nice write up X33  :)
68 Z/28  born with: 302, drive line, etc..

JoeC

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Re: '68 Z28 - Need shifter options vs. the original Muncie shifter
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2016, 03:35:44 PM »
looks like someone tried to make that Muncie stick work with a non offset Hurst shifter so they use the offset in the Muncie stick

if you use the correct offset Hurst shifter you can match the cut off Muncie shifter to the Hurst 4106 67-68 Camaro chrome stick and there is no offset in the stick

I did a bunch of these

Sauron327

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Re: '68 Z28 - Need shifter options vs. the original Muncie shifter
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2016, 12:11:56 AM »
I'll toss in the M22Z gearset that was not mentioned and designed around a 3.08 rear. 1st gear is 2.984:1. Combined with a 3.08 rear, the take off is like a 4:10. Gear spacing is a little wide for a 4-speed but a cheaper alternative for those who don't want to burp for a 5-speed.

1st: 2.984:1
 2nd: 2.043:1
 3rd: 1.468:1
 4th: 1:1

JoeC

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Re: '68 Z28 - Need shifter options vs. the original Muncie shifter
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2016, 01:44:41 PM »
I'll toss in the M22Z gearset that was not mentioned and designed around a 3.08 rear. 1st gear is 2.984:1. Combined with a 3.08 rear, the take off is like a 4:10. Gear spacing is a little wide for a 4-speed but a cheaper alternative for those who don't want to burp for a 5-speed.

they used to do that with the late 1970s Z/28 and Trans Am wide ratio T-10 4 speeds .
With a high rear gear , it was called the poor man's 5 speed

 

anything