Author Topic: Hurst Shifter date codes  (Read 12976 times)

Bryan302

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Re: Hurst Shifter date codes
« Reply #60 on: May 16, 2016, 03:57:29 AM »
It seems there are several January shifters in later cars that old eyes couldn't see.  There is an 03B, 04B, 06A.  So, there must have been a very large batch of January shifters.  My 05A Z28 NOR has one, 19D51Q, owned car since April 1979 and prior owners known.  Shifter 100% original.
Bryan S.
1968 RS Z/28, 12E, PNT R2, TR 749
1969 Z/28 X33, 05A, PNT 52 52, TR 719, endura bumper

cruizin69

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Re: Hurst Shifter date codes
« Reply #61 on: May 16, 2016, 06:48:29 PM »
My 02A 5th from the top is a Norwood car

paceme

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Re: Hurst Shifter date codes
« Reply #62 on: June 02, 2016, 02:54:36 AM »
My 6A L78 has a 19D43D
Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com
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ZLP955

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Re: Hurst Shifter date codes
« Reply #63 on: June 07, 2016, 09:33:49 AM »
Car     Plant    Shifter Date
09D     LOS     88D3
10B     NOR     68B2
12B     NOR     68B2
12D     NOR     1280D31D
02A     NOR     19D51J
02C     LOS     19D52M
03B     NOR     19D52P
04A     LOS     29D21C
04B     LOS     19D53D
05A     NOR     19D51Q   
06A     NOR     19D42M
06A     NOR     19D43D 
07A     NOR     69O711F
09C     NOR     89O731C

Updated:  June 7 2016 (added 'NOR' for Steve's 06A)
Tim - 04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP

NorCam69

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Re: Hurst Shifter date codes
« Reply #64 on: June 17, 2016, 03:36:37 AM »
05A Norwood Car
19D35E

ZLP955

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Re: Hurst Shifter date codes
« Reply #65 on: June 19, 2016, 02:35:46 AM »
Car     Plant    Shifter Date
09D     LOS     88D3
10B     NOR     68B2
12B     NOR     68B2
12D     NOR     1280D31D
02A     NOR     19D51J
02C     LOS     19D52M
03B     NOR     19D52P
04A     LOS     29D21C
04B     LOS     19D53D
05A     NOR     19D51Q
05A     NOR     19D35E
06A     NOR     19D42M
06A     NOR     19D43D 
07A     NOR     69O711F
09C     NOR     89O731C

Updated:  June 19 2016 (added Earl's 05A)
Tim - 04A VN '69 z/28 69-69 715 ex-E/MP

GreenNV

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Re: Hurst Shifter date codes
« Reply #66 on: November 04, 2016, 03:07:12 PM »
Here's a little food for thought on the coding witnessed on the shifter bodies.

First let me preface this by telling you that a very good friend of mine has taken dozens (if not hundreds) of shifters out of cars when rebuilding Muncie 4-speeds & Hurst shifter bodies at a specialty restoration shop over the past 30+ years. Two people there had often taken note of the codes on the cases and referred to different prefix numbers as being associated to GM, Pontiac, Olds, etc. (i.e. 1=Chevrolet, 2=Pontiac, 3=Olds and so on so forth). It was also said that the second character likely determined the year, and the third related the month. Apparently the coding was done differently in different years where alpha letters were used for the months of one year while numeric values were used in others.

In recent conversation with Peter Serio, the two of us discussed the coding and batch numbers witnessed on different cases and he is certain that different coding was batched for each motor division and that the prefix is likely the plant code ordering the shifter rather than the month which is what many people are thinking the first character was? For those of you who do not know Pete, he like my friend has been active in the restoration field for many decades. He is widely known for his Hurst Shifter restorations within GTO, Firebird, Camaro circles and has restored hundreds and hundreds of different Hurst shifters. Pete is touted as being one of the best and has restored hundreds of them.

Peter Serio
2719 Columbus Ave.
Columbus, OH 43209.
614-258-3500

He's also written books on shifters. http://precisionpontiac.net/Book_Volume1.aspx

Pete understands many of the differences seen in a shifter body that many people truly don't? In a lengthy discussion, he informed me of many changes seen in the shifter bodies between one motor brand and another, and also educated me on the subtle changes made within a shifter body when GM would send change orders to Hurst facilitating things like reverse lockouts etc. When the new columns came out with locked steering in 69, there were problems where people inadvertently locked transmissions up by getting the shifter to engage reverse and forward gears at the same time. This created many issues and potential lawsuits for GM where changes orders resulted in multiple manufacturing changes within the 69 shifter bodies to correct these issues. He went on the tell me that one cannot always take two 69 Camaro shifter bodies apart and attempt to interchange parts because there were various part changes within most years especially in 69. I told him about the date sequence referred to in this page and he strongly suggested it may not be as many people think?

I know another person in the hobby that takes one look at a shifter body and you can ask him, hey what's that from? He'll quickly answer that's easy, 29D coupled with that particular offset is 69 Poncho out of a Firebird while he can look at another body and spit out out 1967 Big Fat Chev. I have spoken to many people heavily involved in this hobby that know Muncies and Shifters intimately and while most have different opinions on dating/coding, the one thing that has been commonly discussed is how most concur that the first character (at least in some years) is related to the motor division.

Just sharing some of what I have learned from a few who are way smarter than I  ;D
1968 Grotto Blue Rallysport  - GM Canada Docs
1969 Rally Green Z/28 - GM Canada Docs
1955 Chevrolet

ko-lek-tor

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Re: Hurst Shifter date codes
« Reply #67 on: November 04, 2016, 04:20:27 PM »
Green NV & Mr Serio, appreciate your insight and experience that gives food for thought. All the dates provided above are supposed to be out of cars that the owners are stating the shifter is the one "born with" their respective car. I have the 12B Nor 68B2 Hurst. By your observation, this is not even a Chevy (1) shifter. So, what is my shifter out of? What would GM division 6 be? Why would it be in my Chevy? And work, fitting the application?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 05:13:53 PM by ko-lek-tor »
James to strangers, Bentley to friends
1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 bought in 79
1969 SS 350 coupe LeMans Blue 713 bought in 79
1969 307 4spd. coupe Daytona Yellow 711 bought in 85

bcmiller

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Re: Hurst Shifter date codes
« Reply #68 on: November 04, 2016, 06:15:59 PM »
GreenNV,

You are pretty new here. Did you ever introduce yourself and tell us your background? New insight is always welcome here, just don't try to set the world on fire. Eh?

Your observations are interesting, but don't seem to fit what we have observed in original cars. 
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 - now 468 ci, M21, 12 bolt
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016

jdv69z

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Re: Hurst Shifter date codes
« Reply #69 on: November 04, 2016, 07:26:40 PM »
Green NV & Mr Serio, appreciate your insight and experience that gives food for thought. All the dates provided above are supposed to be out of cars that the owners are stating the shifter is the one "born with" their respective car. I have the 12B Nor 68B2 Hurst. By your observation, this is not even a Chevy (1) shifter. So, what is my shifter out of? What would GM division 6 be? Why would it be in my Chevy? And work, fitting the application?

Same coding for my Shifter. The original from a 10B Oct 68 Z, an early car. Reverse lockout does and has always worked flawlessly. I don't see how the shifter could engage 1st and reverse at the same time, but if that could happen, it would be related to the internal rails of the shifter itself, and would be a design flaw unrelated to reverse lockout..
Jimmy V.

GreenNV

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Re: Hurst Shifter date codes
« Reply #70 on: November 05, 2016, 02:02:32 AM »
Looking at the shifters listed in this thread is only but a small sampling of codes out there and pertains to a couple years and perhaps one model only. While you can conceivably think it could be month, year for maybe 68/69, what about all the other years and codes from all the other motor companies where the coding is very different and 8 characters long? Kinda begs you to ask the question doesn't it? That's why I asked Pete, and he doesn't think it's date coding, but actually batch codes.

Example...what are all these zeros about? Month zero then year??? There's gotta be more to this.





1968 Grotto Blue Rallysport  - GM Canada Docs
1969 Rally Green Z/28 - GM Canada Docs
1955 Chevrolet

ko-lek-tor

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Re: Hurst Shifter date codes
« Reply #71 on: November 05, 2016, 02:53:46 AM »
I'll answer your questions when you answer mine. And when you say this is a sampling of a couple of years and perhaps one model only, that is an insightful observation as this is a 1st Gen site and Hurst usage of one model year. So, yes, that is all I am concerned with and all this site is and should be concerned with. Let other makes/models make their own conclusions. You surely cannot deny the facts of the sampling and you are up against some of the best minds in the hobby. We, collectively, are open minded to divergent viewpoints, and do not have our head in the sand. What you propose is not consistent with the evidence. Do you see a pattern from the data that suggests different?
James to strangers, Bentley to friends
1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 bought in 79
1969 SS 350 coupe LeMans Blue 713 bought in 79
1969 307 4spd. coupe Daytona Yellow 711 bought in 85

X33RS

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Re: Hurst Shifter date codes
« Reply #72 on: November 05, 2016, 01:06:56 PM »
I believe everyone could be right.  It does seem odd to me how some shifters do have extra characters while others don't.   And as far as I know there hasn't been a complete breakdown or understanding posted on the site anywhere that I've seen. I don't think it's all completely understood yet.   Just looking at the list, mine is the only original shifter on that list with 8 characters. 

I tend not to believe the first digit is a model number, nor is the second digit a year in my case.  Looking at mine for instance you have to look at the first 3 digits.  It's the only shifter in the list that belongs to a December built car.  Therefore the only explanation that makes sense to me at this point is looking at both the 1st and 2nd digit together.  That looks like a month to me (December)   The 3rd digit on mine would be the year (1968)
   I have no idea what the "O" is and a pair of D's don't make much sense to me either.   But I could make a good guess at the 31 as possibly being the day of the month since my car was built around the last week of December.   That's just a guess but it makes the most sense to me at this point.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 01:28:19 PM by X33RS »

69Z28-RS

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Re: Hurst Shifter date codes
« Reply #73 on: November 05, 2016, 02:02:22 PM »
I agree with X33 ... as I've stated before.   The Hurst code is not ONLY a date code; it makes more sense that it's a Hurst batch code, BUT it does have a 'date' encoded into it (I don't think there's any doubt about that, at least for the Chevy shifters for '69, where we have TOO many examples to ignore.  Th fact of a date included batch code makes sense given the warranty issues that would be faced when Chevy sent back to Hurst a malfunctioning Shifter from a 'warranted' car for repair/replacement.  Hurst would have a means to determine from only the shifter 'when' it was made and how long any warranty Hurst supplied to Chevy would last.
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
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jdv69z

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Re: Hurst Shifter date codes
« Reply #74 on: November 05, 2016, 04:06:48 PM »
I agree with X33 ... as I've stated before.   The Hurst code is not ONLY a date code; it makes more sense that it's a Hurst batch code, BUT it does have a 'date' encoded into it (I don't think there's any doubt about that, at least for the Chevy shifters for '69, where we have TOO many examples to ignore.  Th fact of a date included batch code makes sense given the warranty issues that would be faced when Chevy sent back to Hurst a malfunctioning Shifter from a 'warranted' car for repair/replacement.  Hurst would have a means to determine from only the shifter 'when' it was made and how long any warranty Hurst supplied to Chevy would last.

Without a doubt Gary.
Jimmy V.