Author Topic: Chamber exhaust, to be or not to be? (Read 10685 times)

X33RS · « **on:** February 26, 2016, 09:37:47 PM »

Gary caught my attention about a small detail on chamber exhaust and we thought it would be a worthy discussion here. I'm going to provide some pictures for some questions I have. Please feel free to comment, I'd like to learn something.

We are under the impression that the rounded exhaust clamps are chamber exhaust only. I knew my car still had a pair of these original style clamps. I was also told these particular hangers are moved further back on the car to facilitate holding the chamber mufflers.

Now that I look at these hangers closer, they do appear to be bent more towards the front of the car to hold the current crossflow system. They also appear to me to be mounted back a bit further than what I would normally see on a car, almost above the rearend housing. It has me wondering, are these hangers originally for a chamber exhaust system??

Here are some pics of the hangers...

Another question. I'm pretty sure these tailpipes are original to the car, or at least put on very very early in the cars life. An oddity I'd like clarification on. Maybe this is nothing but where the tips are cut at an angle, The driver side doesn't come to a point on the top, but rather has the sharp part of the angle missing. Anyone seen this before? Maybe one tailpipe has been replaced with an over the counter??

Couple other pics I took that may or may not help. Original hanger on the driver side tailpipe, and a bottom shot of the passenger side tailpipe. Ignore the black widow cobweb on the last shot.

If there are any other shots needed to help determine if this was a chamber exhaust car, please ask, I'll do the best I can to assist.

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #1 on:** February 26, 2016, 09:48:11 PM »

I took Eric Gardners comment as referencing the rear most hangar being different (the one which support the tail pipe), and 'rounded' bottom of the clamp as referencing the metal portion which fits onto the U shaped clamp portion; I think he was saying that the formed metal retainer for the clamp was 'curved or rounded' as opposed to being straight across on the bottom? Maybe someone with an original chambered system wtih clamps and hangars can clarify all this?? (I hope)..

I'd also suggest you call and speak to Eric Gardner re the chambered hangars and clamps... and maybe someone here has some more details on the original systems that they can share (my car didn't come with chambered, and the NOS one I had and sold only included the pipes themselves, no hangars or clamps). I do have a collection of original clamps from my car that I'd like to compare to others. I've got two styles and I honestly do not know which (if either) are factory original to my car - although I was the only one to ever change the exhaust system on my car when I replaced the original with GM items in 1976...

PS. William has a great deal of information based on factory documentation on the chambered and deep tone systems, and when the changes occurred throughout the year. Maybe we can talk him into doing a 'data dump' with all the factory information he has regarding both systems, their hangars/clamps, and the times things changed re the exhaust systems through the year. I know he's posted a lot of info over the past few years, but it 's scattered throughout several threads.. and it would be great to have it in one location.. almost like another CRG report..

X33RS · « **Reply #2 on:** February 26, 2016, 10:53:39 PM »

I know the chamber systems were discontinued as standard equipment early on (Oct or Nov if memory serves) but my understanding is that it was still offered as an option (I think) for a few more months before being discontinued all together.

I guess we need pictures of the different style clamps to compare. I'm actually hoping my car just had the standard deep tone exhaust because I really don't care for the sound of chamber. Reminds me of being kids and sticking glass packs on our cars. I much rather prefer a more refined sound nowadays. But if it had chamber originally so be it, I'd grin and bear it.

X33RS · « **Reply #3 on:** February 26, 2016, 11:36:29 PM »

Quote from: 69Z28-RS on February 26, 2016, 09:48:11 PM

I took Eric Gardners comment as referencing the rear most hangar being different (the one which support the tail pipe), and 'rounded' bottom of the clamp as referencing the metal portion which fits onto the U shaped clamp portion; I think he was saying that the formed metal retainer for the clamp was 'curved or rounded' as opposed to being straight across on the bottom? Maybe someone with an original chambered system wtih clamps and hangars can clarify all this?? (I hope)..

I just reread that part. Not sure I understand the tailpipe clamp description. All I've ever seen are what is pictured on my car above. Typical band style clamp that surrounds the tailpipe. Not even sure why that would be different for chamber because the tailpipes exit/run in the same location and are the same diameter. Correct me here??

asm69 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 27, 2016, 12:26:29 AM »

My car for sure cam with chambered exhaust. Long gone now. I think this is an exhaust type of hanger, not sure. It has that type of rubber material on it. Maybe its after market. It has been cut, and not by me. This is located on right side (passenger side) bolted to top of pan, in front of rear axle.

BillOhio · « **Reply #5 on:** February 27, 2016, 01:18:44 AM »

From what I understood, the drivers side frame rail pictured is off a deep tone system. The chambered is longer. I think that is why the rubber piece looks like it is too far back in the picture. I am not expert but that is what I have figured out

Stingr69 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 29, 2016, 02:07:17 PM »

Drivers side hangar is not right for a chambered system. Dual exhaust hangar yes, just not chambered.

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #7 on:** February 29, 2016, 02:32:09 PM »

This photo apparently shows the 'rounded bottom' clamp which Gardner Exhaust says is correct for the 1969 Camaro...

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #8 on:** February 29, 2016, 03:01:40 PM »

Here is a pair of supposed NOS rear exhaust hangars for sale on ebay (very rusty for NOS; My originals I took off my car 3 or 4 years ago were/are in much better condition than these)...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-NOS-GM-Camaro-Pair-Of-Exhaust-Hangers-3958465-3953228-3965633-3964858-Yenko-/222033046872?hash=item33b2336d58:g:WtYAAOSwB4NWzfiK&vxp=mtr

The 1st attached photo is from the Gardner website showing their hangar kit for chambered vs original hangars.

These hangars appear to be the same as the originals I removed from my 'deep tone' exhaust car - see photos 2 and 3). There may be some small differences not apparent in the photos??

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #9 on:** February 29, 2016, 03:35:04 PM »

I didn't have photographs of the clamps I removed from my system when I un-installed it a few years ago, but I have the bag of clamps, so I went down to the basement and pulled it out and photographed them. I have two clamps that I removed that have 'rounded' bottoms' - one of these might be original?, and several that are different. I assume that the different ones are replacements I purchased when I installed a new GM deeptone system in 1976; the other 2 (rounded ones) must have been good enough for me to re-use at that time? The only advantage I can see from the rounded bottom clamps is that the retention nuts are more protected from 'scraping damage' and they are more compact than replacements with flat bottoms.

X33RS · « **Reply #10 on:** February 29, 2016, 06:38:41 PM »

I see the rounded clamps a lot on other unrestored cars. Ford used them a lot, most of them are still left on my SCJ. When I saw a pair of them on my Z28 I knew they were likely originals. Very common for Arizona cars. The muffler on the Z was replaced eons ago so those clamps have been replaced. The pipes on mine are possibly original as far as I can tell, and pretty sure all the hangers are.

I wrapped the tailpipes up in towels soaked with evaporust and saran wrap. They cleaned up surprisingly well. If I were ambitious enough I'd pull the whole system down and wrap it, lol. My luck when we start driving it something will fall off anyway at which point an entirely new system will be going on. So we'll just see how it holds up.

X33RS · « **Reply #11 on:** February 29, 2016, 08:34:23 PM »

Hey Gary,
Here's a question, and I don't see it in those photos you posted. Was the hanger close to the muffler on the driver side utilized on the Z28's or not?
I see the bracket is there on mine, factory spot welded to the inside of the rear frame rail and even has a cage nut attached to it, and I see the unique hanger in the factory assembly manual UPC 8 (A4) or page 117 if you have page numbers.
The hanger is not on my car however the bracket is spot welded to the car to use it. Interestingly enough I never see this hanger offered in any of the exhaust hanger kits advertised.
So what's the deal with that? Ideas?

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #12 on:** February 29, 2016, 11:05:21 PM »

Yes, there's a rear hangar on both sides that are very similar (if not identical or symmetrically opposed). The last photograph in my Reply #9 in this thread actually is both of those rear hangars (sorta piled together)..

and Yes, the driver side rear hangar used that tack welded on plate for attachment. Here's a photo of it mounted to that plate...

X33RS · « **Reply #13 on:** March 01, 2016, 01:43:10 AM »

Yep those are on my car, I pictured the same one above. There is another one, it's close to the driver side hanger we have pictured but it's inside the frame right on top of the muffler. The bracket for that one is welded on as well. Check out the AIM UPC 8 A4, they have a nice illustration of it in there. It's only on one side of the muffler and looks to be an extra muffler support. Looks like a good idea to me to help the other 4 hangers, however I don't see them listed forsale anywhere. I'm wondering if it was even utilized at all...

The bracket is on my car but no hanger attached from the bracket to the muffler. It's just about in the area of the driver side tailpipe and muffler connection. You can't really see it from outside the car looking into the wheel well, you have to get under the car and look up.
Hang on and I'll try to get a picture.

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #14 on:** March 01, 2016, 01:52:42 AM »

I think I know what you are talking about. I've a photo of that bracket somewhere, and I had no idea what it was for... wasn't connected to anything that I can remember.... I'll see if I can find the photo...

X33RS · « **Reply #15 on:** March 01, 2016, 01:57:27 AM »

I'm trying to upload a photo now, pain in the butt.

Yeah nothing connected to mine either. I'm thinking it was simply on all Camaros but only utilized in a single exhaust application supporting that side of the muffler while the single tail pipe exited on the passenger side.

X33RS · « **Reply #16 on:** March 01, 2016, 01:58:21 AM »

Hey on a side note Gary, your car looks like it got a lot of body color up in the frame rail at the exhaust bracket just like mine did.

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #17 on:** March 01, 2016, 02:11:19 AM »

Yes, it did... I spent a couple of weeks lying under the car cleaning the bottom side a couple of years ago. take a look at the two photos I posted of the *unidentified* bracket.. is that the one you are referring to? I have no idea at this moment what that bracket is for....

X33RS · « **Reply #18 on:** March 01, 2016, 02:16:51 AM »

Yep that's it. I've had 2 failed attempts at uploading a picture of it

I give up. But you got it.

I think that's for a single exhaust application that uses the transverse muffler with a single inlet and single outlet. I seem to remember having a nova like that with a similar setup and bracket.

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #19 on:** March 01, 2016, 02:24:07 AM »

Everytime I see that thing... I think... 'What the hell is that for??"... I'm sure now that we've pictured it, some smart fellas are gonna tell us for sure..

X33RS · « **Reply #20 on:** March 01, 2016, 02:26:14 AM »

I put my dibs in. Take a guess, we'll see eventually

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #21 on:** March 01, 2016, 09:53:02 PM »

The hangers with the long pieces of steel are the intermediate over the axle hangers for N10. The short complete rubber straps with the L hook on the end are the chambered intermediate over the axle hangers and are retained to the attachment points using this retainer.

ban617 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 02, 2016, 01:52:34 AM »

Gary , Hi isn't that bracket for the cross flow muffler ?

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #23 on:** March 02, 2016, 03:36:46 AM »

This is the early style chambered muffler drivers rear frame rail tail pipe hanger. Original VS Gardner

This is the passenger -

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #24 on:** March 02, 2016, 04:07:56 AM »

James, Thanks.

Your photo of the drivers side chambered rear most hangar definitely makes it clear that the hangar mounts in the standard location (same as for deeptone hangar), but due to it's design, it supports the tail pipe farther back (which is what
Eric Gardner attempted to explain to me - without photos)..

Your photo makes it much more clear.

firstgenaddict · « **Reply #25 on:** March 02, 2016, 04:21:46 AM »

I'm not sure this drivers side hanger was used for the complete production duration of NC8. Eric Gardner doesn't know. This would need to be examined on original later optional NC8 cars. There is a part number change although it is ambiguous at best.

69Z28-RS · « **Reply #26 on:** March 02, 2016, 05:02:48 AM »

Quote from: ban617 on March 02, 2016, 01:52:34 AM

Gary , Hi isn't that bracket for the cross flow muffler ?

Yes, it seems to be a bracket which hangs the driver side of the stock single exhaust muffler. I should have gone looking for what this was long ago, when I first wondered what that bracket was for, but since it wasn't used on my car (Z28 with dual exhaust)... I wasn't too worried about it. The AIM, UPC 8, sheet A4 shows it being used to support the muffler via support hangar ( pn 3953246).

I assume that was used on all single exhaust cars, both six cylinder and V8...??

dale_z28 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 02, 2016, 11:56:41 AM »

Gary, I can't believe you haven't got a 6-cylinder car by now to further our research! Shame!

X33RS · « **Reply #28 on:** March 02, 2016, 12:18:26 PM »

James, thanks for the pictures. I was lost with the explanations until you posted those pics, now it's clear.

Gary, I would tend to think that it would be a good idea to use that hanger to help support that muffler as well. The bracket is already there "shrug" so why not. Those little tailpipe hangers look a little flimsy back there to me anyway. The AIM is what I was referring to in my earlier post, has a very clear picture of it being used.

I'm pretty sure though it was a single exhaust application because they didn't have a tail pipe on the driver side so there was no tail pipe hanger over there otherwise. I had a 71 nova, V8 307 with factory single exhaust, tail pipe exited on the passenger side and I seem to remember the transverse muffler used that bracket and hanger we are seeing on the driver side that isn't used on the Z's. I know it's a nova but basically the same platform.

Edit: And I see my pics disappeared

I was on there the other day trying to load more pics and apparently lost the others.

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Author Topic: Chamber exhaust, to be or not to be? (Read 10685 times)