Author Topic: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?  (Read 23405 times)

X33RS

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Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« on: February 14, 2016, 12:27:04 AM »
Who is making a good engine compartment harness nowadays?  Heartbeat?  Ricks?  Other suggestions?

I'm not too worried about what color a certain plastic connecter might be, but I do want a harness that represents the original that functions correctly with plastic support clips and such so it fits as it should.

Any help appreciated,
Larry

jacmac

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2016, 12:35:35 AM »
I got all my wiring thru American Auto Wire. No complaints,of all the parts I bought That by far was the best for orininality.
69 Z10,69 ss396Chevelle, 71 Corvette

Mike S

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2016, 01:14:59 AM »
Lectric Limited is another good source.
http://lectriclimited.com/

Mike
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X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2016, 03:27:56 AM »
Thanks guys, I'll check those out.   :)

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2016, 01:35:50 PM »
Do all 69 Z's have the idle stop solenoid?

My DZ carb has the solenoid attached to it (however it is dated after the car).  I see the harness is made both ways, with and without an idle stop solenoid.  Was this another one of those plant or production time changes?

janobyte

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2016, 02:30:56 PM »
Your replacing the whole harness so this might not be relative. If you are doing any repair, try here: http://www.wirebarn.com/

I ordered a variety of short lengths. Spot on for color, proper under hood insulation temp rating.

I believe Lectric Limited will custom build a harness to your specs. It was a toss up for me between the two mentioned. Once I got the harnesses of the shelf they were in far better shape then I remembered, and not hacked. Shy a few pigtails needing replaced. So I went the route of restoring them. Did not take long on Ebay to find the few connector sockets I needed. Relatively cheap and spot on match. Even scored a used blower motor lead for a few bucks.

Also, I have read in various posts about the " white clothed resistor wire" for the ignition. I doubt here, but I have read threads on other sites stating the existence negates the need of a ballast resistor. Mine read 0 ohms. Interesting enough, following the wire down a few inches into the harness, it loops. At this loop is a non-insulated area with a piece of what looks like shrink tube (loose) insulating it.

Anyway, if your running points, you need resistance in the circuit, I believe operation at 8v.    Electronic, no resistance needed.   


68 Z/28  born with: 302, drive line, etc..

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2016, 04:40:11 PM »
I was thinking the same thing Janobyte, and trying to make a decision.  Everything works on the car and it ran and drove.  Since I've pulled the engine I noticed something odd.  The junction block behind the battery was missing.  A lot of surface rust behind the battery from battery acid so I can only assume it attacked the junction block.
  So the fix for someone was to remove it and cut/splice all the junction block wires together.  The problem I have now is that a couple of the wires that come from the core support are missing their ends, and they are also too short to reach where the junction block should be. I cant simply put new ends on them, they have to be lengthened.  Also a new alternator plastic terminal was installed and rather than do it the right way with correct ends that clip into a new terminal, they spliced wires. All of this is what had me thinking I might just replace the whole harness.  The rest of the harness is okay it appears, just old.

   Resistor wire with cloth is still there, as well as one of the wires that runs to the starter also has cloth on it.  I never checked the output of the resistor wire but it's something I'll do when we break in the new motor.  I'll be running the original 480 distributor with points.  Points serve me well in 2 other cars so I don't have an interest in a conversion for this car at this time.  However I may run (and hide) a hot 12 volt wire from the firewall block just in case.  I've done this on other cars.

   What I'm not sure about yet is that idle stop solenoid, whether it should have one or not.  I don't see a wire for it and don't remember one, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there.  I noticed the wire harnesses that are offered come with or without this solenoid wire.

Should I start another thread about that?  I did a search and came up with nothing.

L78 steve

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2016, 05:17:40 PM »
Never seen a Idle stop solenoid on any 69Z.
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69Z28-RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2016, 05:52:24 PM »
Idle stop solenoids were only used on air conditioned cars weren't they?   I know my '69 Corvette 350/350 with AC had one from the factory...  and I agree with L78Steve... no reason for them to be on a '69 Z28.
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68camaroz28

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2016, 06:38:13 PM »
Idle stop solenoids were only used on air conditioned cars weren't they?   I know my '69 Corvette 350/350 with AC had one from the factory...  and I agree with L78Steve... no reason for them to be on a '69 Z28.
Umm, thought it was used on automatic trans cars? Agree not on z28! I used American autowire!
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X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2016, 07:13:29 PM »
10-4, that explains why there isn't a wire for it  :)

Thanks

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2016, 07:30:59 PM »
Well looking at the engine harnesses, in the pictures it doesn't appear to come with the wires that connect to the junction block that shoots power back to the firewall.   Apparently these company's are selling different sections of the front harness separately.  The problem though is that stuff is all wrapped together as it runs up through the core support and then branches off as needed.

I'm not interested in completely unwrapping this original harness to integrate part of a new one and wrapping it all back up again.   If I'm going to go that far, I'd much rather buy a complete front harness that plugs into the firewall that I can run to the correct hangers and clip holes and plug everything in as it should be.

But I'm not seeing anything like that from the vendors.

Edit:  Found it.  Apparently they are calling it the headlight harness.  From the pics I can see that it has the things I need and includes the alternator and charging system wiring as a unit.

janobyte

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2016, 09:58:06 PM »
anything other then " very minor " surgery, I'd replace the harnesses: light/engine. Like I said, I had a few minor issues, insulation great shape.  At the fire wall junction: pass side coil/starter/blower motor, wipers, simple. Driver side: lights/voltage regulator/alt/horn relay/brake warning light/junction block, warning lights,etc. All things considered, pretty cheap.
68 Z/28  born with: 302, drive line, etc..

crobjones2

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2016, 12:54:41 AM »
my original A/C auto does not have the ISS
I am not sure which cars they came on
Chris
69 SS 350

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2016, 01:27:31 AM »
You're right janobyte,  I'm the type that only wants to do things once and be done with it.  I was looking at it more today and just don't like what I see.  Too many clips are broken around the radiator support so the harness isn't secured like it should be (doesn't help to have RS vacuum hoses tied to it and adding weight), junction block is gone and all those wires are spliced together, and a couple other things look a little worse for wear.

I'm not going to fool with it, I'm just ordering both the engine and headlight harness and replacing everything forward of the firewall.  About $250 but I think money well spent.  Easy to change now with engine out of the car.  Booster and master are coming off anyway, opportune time.

I appreciate the help with the vendors from everyone.  I checked both and they are all within $3-$4 of each other.

Thanks again
Larry

BillOhio

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2016, 03:05:08 AM »
I used American auto wire and had clips wrong and the wires that should have a cloth cover and didn't. This was on the wiper, coil starter wires. From what I can figure out, what they are sending out is for a non gauge car.
1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
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1970 Z28 M22 4:10 bought from original owner
1961 Chrysler 300G convertible

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2016, 12:16:25 PM »
Bill,
Are you saying a non gauge car wouldn't have the cloth covering on the coil and starter wires?

Also, how long has it been since you bought from American Autowire?  I'm getting quite a few recommendations from others and you're the first that mentioned the lack of cloth covering.  Is that still the case with American Autowire?

How about Lectric Limited?  Cloth covering??

what is Heartbeat selling and how does that compare?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 01:06:28 PM by X33RS »

BillOhio

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2016, 04:52:26 PM »
I got mine last summer. In the thread where I mentioned it, I think James had ran across the same thing. I think he was the first one to put it together there was a difference. I sent mine back and they fixed it. I will see if I can add the link to here.
1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1968 RS 327 4 speed
1970 Z28 M22 4:10 bought from original owner
1961 Chrysler 300G convertible

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1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1968 RS 327 4 speed
1970 Z28 M22 4:10 bought from original owner
1961 Chrysler 300G convertible

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2016, 05:10:26 PM »
Boy I'm more confused now.  I'm second guessing American Autowire now after reading that, lol.

The wrong color plastic ends don't bother me as those are easy to swap from the original harness.  The cloth covered wires do bother me, that seems a little more important.

How about Lectric Limited and Heartbeat, or even Ricks?   Are they getting their stuff from these same vendors?

I don't want to deal with sending stuff back and forth to be corrected.  Someone out there has to sell a good reproduction harness???

Otherwise I'll get out the solder gun and fix what I have.  Hate to spend time that I don't have doing that.

Mike S

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2016, 05:23:45 PM »
 I was under the impression Lectric Limited made their own harness and is not a reseller.

Mike
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X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2016, 05:26:49 PM »
Here you go Bill,
Both of my coil wires have the cloth covering. Although worse for wear, it's there.   Interesting side note, I had always thought this wasn't a gauge car even though console gauges are present.  I had been talking with William and determined it is a factory gauge car (you can see the oil line grommet in the picture)  In your link James makes mention of gauge cars having both coil wires covered with cloth.  Sure enough, mine does as well.
  Now you have me thinking I need a harness with both of these wires covered in cloth.  Where do I find the correct harness??

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2016, 05:27:37 PM »
I was under the impression Lectric Limited made their own harness and is not a reseller.

Mike

How correct are they??   See my post above addressing what Bill brought to my attention.

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2016, 06:14:06 PM »
I've contacted both Lectric Limited and American Autowire addressing the cloth covering concerns.  Waiting to hear back.

I was able to look at a picture from American Auto wire, and it appears there is no cloth on either of the coil wires in the photo they provide, and I didn't see any on the starter wires either.  I was unable to link them a picture of mine, their question box wouldn't allow it.

Lectric Limited doesn't have a picture but their contact info was through email so I was able to send them a picture of mine showing the cloth on both coil wires. 

I'll let everyone know if I get a response and/or if one of them are willing and offers to add the cloth.

69Z28-RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2016, 06:22:36 PM »
Is it possible to purchase the cloth sleeve separately?  Or at least a close facsimile?
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X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2016, 06:27:54 PM »
Well, I know you can buy the correct wrapping tape, and various clips separately.  I've never checked on the cloth covering though.  I don't recall seeing that anywhere.

Unfortunately you would have to snip the terminals off to slip the cloth on, and then have terminals ready to crimp back on.

If they can add the cloth, then I would assume a roll of it is buyable somewhere.  We'll see what they say or have to offer if they get back with me.  Hopefully for a small fee they'll offer the cloth and make it right.

janobyte

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2016, 09:47:07 PM »
Is it possible to purchase the cloth sleeve separately?  Or at least a close facsimile?

Yea, single wire cover is available, in black though. Was doing some searches last night. Vendor doesn't come to mind, but an easy on line find....maybe even Amazon.
68 Z/28  born with: 302, drive line, etc..

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2016, 10:34:16 PM »
So far only Lectric Limited got back with me.  I sent him a picture of my original harness so he's aware.  He stated only one coil wire is covered in cloth, and there is nothing on the starter wires.  That's the only response I got.

Soooo, I replied and asked if they could cover the wires in cloth as they are pictured on my original harness or if they simply offer a roll of it so I can do it myself.
We'll see what comes back.  So far not appearing too promising.

I haven't heard from American Autowire yet.

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2016, 10:36:08 PM »
I can't believe I'm the first to deal with this?   With all the high end restorations floating around and this place being the best source for Camaro info, someone here has gone through the same thing I'm sure.....right?

janobyte

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2016, 11:43:26 PM »
only in harness cloth (white) covered wire was my coil (drk brown wire. ( from the bulk head) Mines a 68 non-gauge car.

Feed off the starter solenoid is yellow. By the starter solenoid terminals, don't remember. I lengthened the wires years ago to aid in dropping/changing the starter.
68 Z/28  born with: 302, drive line, etc..

janobyte

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2016, 12:01:21 AM »
Is it possible to purchase the cloth sleeve separately?  Or at least a close facsimile?

Yea, single wire cover is available, in black though. Was doing some searches last night. Vendor doesn't come to mind, but an easy on line find....maybe even Amazon.


http://www.hotrodwires.com/product/fabric-loom.html
68 Z/28  born with: 302, drive line, etc..

69Z28-RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2016, 01:39:29 AM »
only in harness cloth (white) covered wire was my coil (drk brown wire. ( from the bulk head) Mines a 68 non-gauge car.

Feed off the starter solenoid is yellow. By the starter solenoid terminals, don't remember. I lengthened the wires years ago to aid in dropping/changing the starter.

Are you sure that the cloth was white originally?  (I have a 'image' in my mind of black cloth covering.. but can't recall what/where I seen it).  I suspect a black cloth would fade to lighter or white over these 46 yrs......  Anyone got any original photos that shows that cloth covering clearly?
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janobyte

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2016, 02:29:45 AM »
Once I opened the harness it was clearly white. still curious of the loop where there is an "open" in the insulation, bare wire protected by what looks like a thicker mil shrink tube loosely covering it. Cuts in the insulation are also clean. Appears manufactured. I agree some sort of hydrocarbon based coating may have simply broken down over the years.

I like the looks of that product, I'm going to order some. I  really enjoy doing wiring harnesses, why I'm taking the time to play with this one. That and it really is in good shape. Just a few very old splices needed freshening with correct wire colors. New pig tails.
68 Z/28  born with: 302, drive line, etc..

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2016, 03:41:48 AM »
only in harness cloth (white) covered wire was my coil (drk brown wire. ( from the bulk head) Mines a 68 non-gauge car.

Feed off the starter solenoid is yellow. By the starter solenoid terminals, don't remember. I lengthened the wires years ago to aid in dropping/changing the starter.

Are you sure that the cloth was white originally?  (I have a 'image' in my mind of black cloth covering.. but can't recall what/where I seen it).  I suspect a black cloth would fade to lighter or white over these 46 yrs......  Anyone got any original photos that shows that cloth covering clearly?

Yes, look at the picture I posted earlier in this discussion.  If you look just above my hand where I'm holding the 2 coil wires that are in cloth, you can also see a couple of wires in the harness heading up to the gutter.  I unwrapped some of the original black tape looking for the brown "R" terminal wire.  That's original white cloth that has been protected by the tape.

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2016, 03:44:46 AM »
only in harness cloth (white) covered wire was my coil (drk brown wire. ( from the bulk head) Mines a 68 non-gauge car.

Feed off the starter solenoid is yellow. By the starter solenoid terminals, don't remember. I lengthened the wires years ago to aid in dropping/changing the starter.

That sounds consistent with what James said about non gauge cars only having one coil wire in cloth.  You can clearly see both of mine are cloth in the photo, and is a factory gauge car.

Yes the wires on mine down by the starter also has white cloth wrapping, however it's deteriorated a bit, but it's there.

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2016, 03:51:52 AM »
Janobyte, 
  I had another response from Lectric Limited and it wasn't promising.  From the sound of his response it's as if he doesn't understand what I'm after.  I was very clear I wanted a new harness with both coil wires wrapped in cloth.  He's responded twice with "sorry we cannot help, we do not stock braided wire to the starter, and the braided wire to the coil is a special resistance wire"
  Hmmm, I think he's confused, so I responded back that I'm after cloth covering, not braided wire, and would like to purchase a harness if they can provide both coil wires with cloth covering.  We'll see..

I have not heard back from American Autowire but with the time change across country I would suspect maybe I'll hear tomorrow...

So at this point, since this is more trouble than I ever imagined, I may just forget about buying a harness, fix what I have and run with it......unless I hear better news tomorrow. 

janobyte

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2016, 11:20:35 AM »
I think more of a "fabric loom"   From the sounds I'd at least replace the lighting harness, carries the charging system circuit. And..16 bucks gets you 10' of new loom...that's more then enough to cover any pig tails down by the starter. Your getting all new material from Lectric/American Wire, you can tweak it as you want.
68 Z/28  born with: 302, drive line, etc..

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2016, 12:30:49 PM »
Now my mail for Lectric Limited is undeliverable   ???   Odd coincidence.

Yeah Jano, I think the other harness (lights) that has the charging system I should probably replace.  That's where my real issues are with that junction block and clip attachments anyway and there is nothing on that part of the harness that would be unusual.  Looks like I'll be going with American Autowire.

Where did you find 10 feet of the fabric loom?  I tried your link and got a bunch of advertisements and couldn't look around.  What did I do wrong?

Well shucks, I tried it this morning and now it works.  I see black fabric loom?  Do they make white?

BillOhio

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2016, 01:42:11 PM »
aaw has the cloth covered coil wires. I sent mine back and it and the starter wire were corrected. I called customer service and they set it up for me. it would be better and cheaper to get it done first rather than getting it changed. also it would be nice if they figured out what they have is incorrect for gauge cars. I tried but not sure they cared 
1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1968 RS 327 4 speed
1970 Z28 M22 4:10 bought from original owner
1961 Chrysler 300G convertible

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2016, 02:44:03 PM »
aaw has the cloth covered coil wires. I sent mine back and it and the starter wire were corrected. I called customer service and they set it up for me. it would be better and cheaper to get it done first rather than getting it changed. also it would be nice if they figured out what they have is incorrect for gauge cars. I tried but not sure they cared 

That's the feeling I got from Lectric Limited, I don't think they really cared and it seems they don't want to go through the effort to satisfy a customer.

Yes, I want it done right the first time and not have to send it back, hence the reason I've been trying to contact them and send a picture in with what I'm looking to do.  It should be pretty simple for them to slip on a couple extra pieces of cloth before they crimp those terminals on.  It's not much to ask.
   I'm still waiting to hear from AAW but if I don't hear something today I'll call and see if I can simply explain and order what I want and get it right on the first shot.  If you went through this Bill, and now me, I'm sure others have as well.  We can't possibly be the only ones.  I would think that would start to set off a bell with AAW and maybe realize there is a need for a correction for the gauge car engine harness.

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2016, 04:07:42 PM »
Could someone look at that picture I posted (post 21) and confirm that brown wire that is in the photo next to the pair of cloth covered coil wires?  It is actually running under my hand.

I think that brown wire is for the tach and should have been connected to the neg coil.   There is no terminal end on it, (broken off) and I found it in the harness as I unwrapped it.

I'm hoping tach wire is brown??  I think that's what I'm looking at.
Thanks.

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2016, 05:02:06 PM »
I'm pretty certain the tach wire is brown, X33..  although it's been awhile since I've 'touched' mine.. :)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2016, 07:46:31 PM »
Okay thanks Gary, I'm thinking that's what I'm looking at.

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2016, 07:49:49 PM »
This is for those that care,

Lectric Limited got back with me today to explain that when he mentioned braided wire he was talking about the resistance wire.  They have no cloth what so ever that slides over a wire.  The only wire they have that resembles that is the resistance wire which has an appearance of cloth but it's actually braded onto the wire and is not removable, that's the way it comes from their supplier of that particular resistance wire.   So in short, they don't have the ability to add cloth coverings to any of the wiring. 

Looking like American Auto Wire, If I can just get a hold of them and make sure they'll put the cloth on the wires I need, then I'll be golden.

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2016, 10:53:52 PM »
Another update,
 Got a hold of American Autowire today.  Marc asked me to send some pictures of my harness to his email address so he could compare to what they have on the shelf.  So far so good, sounds as though they are willing to work with me and get this done.

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2016, 11:01:12 PM »
Just for reference, here's a picture of the 2 wires at the starter solenoid.  Man these pics are a pain the rump for me to load so please anyone feel free to save these if needed for future reference because I don't know how long photobucket will keep these up.  I keep losing pics.

Anyway, both of these wires are also wrapped in cloth.  The smaller wire is the "R" terminal wire, the same wire in my earlier picture that is up at the coil wrapped in cloth (supplies 12 volts while cranking).  As you can see it's covered in cloth the entire length before it's wrapped in tape.

The other heavier 12 gauge wire is the "S" terminal to supply power to the solenoid, and again it's wrapped in cloth the entire length coming all the way over from the firewall junction, and then wrapped in tape with the rest of the harness.


BillOhio

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2016, 02:44:41 AM »
heres my covered starter wires and the 2 that comes from aaw that are on the factory fit that are not covered
1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1968 RS 327 4 speed
1970 Z28 M22 4:10 bought from original owner
1961 Chrysler 300G convertible

69Z28-RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2016, 02:49:20 AM »
I'm betting that cloth covering is an asbestos based material for insulating those wires from HEAT....
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2016, 12:22:35 PM »
Yeah that stuff usually was back then.  I have a box of about 200 feet of asbestos insulation in a box.  It's maybe 3/16" I think, you can barely push a pair of 16 gauge wires through it.  It's somewhat stiff and very tough compared to this cloth stuff on these factory harnesses though. 

Bill, it looks as though they are using different color wires too.  None of my starter wires are yellow or purple, as you can see.   Although I'll try not to concern myself with that, it's been difficult enough just to get the daggum cloth wrapping, lol.

firstgenaddict

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2016, 05:34:14 PM »
These are from a non gauge car... IDIOT LIGHTS-  also note that the clip which bolts to the trans is gold irridated on the repro and black dipped in black plastic on the original. 
FWIW the yellow wire down to the starter was cloth covered. it is peeling off in the photo

Yes every gauge car I have seen has double cloth wrapped the non gauge cars have had single cloth covered.



James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2016, 02:49:37 PM »
Thanks James,   With what you've seen on all the original gauge cars, and what I've read here, I'm confident we are on to something.

Unfortunately it doesn't sound like American Autowire is able to help either.  Here is the response I got this morning.
-------------------------------------------------
Good morning Larry,


I pulled one each of our CA97542 and CA95266 harnesses from the shelf (and took a look at the GM prints) to check into this for you. The wires you mention in your harness do not have any type of cloth covering on our harness, and I do not see any mention of the covering on the GM blueprint. This could mean there was a change to the harness during its service life, but I can say I'm not aware of any harnesses we manufacture that would include that type of cloth wrapping.


The resistance wire used in a points ignition harness does have a cloth look, but does not have a covering on our harness or in the print. The water temperature sender wire will use what we call "asphalt sleeving" in our catalog. This would be the closest to the covering in your photos, but is black in color.


We'd have the asphalt loom available to sell by the foot, but no type of sleeving as shown in your photos available. Sorry it's not an easier answer on this one...as mentioned my suspicion is this would have been a revision at some point in the production run.
---------------------------------------------------

So it appears they can't even put cloth on the wiring even if requested.  Sounds like you get what you get and that's it.
  So what I'm going to do at this point is forget buying the engine harness, keep what I have even though the cloth on mine is ratty, it's at least original and has merit to the cars original gauge package.   I'll buy a new light harness that has the charging system wiring as it appears there isn't any special coverings on that harness (other than the temp sender but they are duplicating that)
   So for those looking to duplicate a factory gauge car engine harness, it doesn't appear anyone has a "correct" harness but rather a generic version.  If someone can find a source of the white cloth covering that may be the only route to take.  I have yet to find any in my searches.


BillOhio

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2016, 03:03:49 PM »
I am not at home but I believe the wire they used on mine wasn't a cover but was part of the wire. They do have the stuff. I wonder in the aim if there is a difference on cars with gauges and they don't see that. It was frustrating dealing with them and they did correct mine. I told them there was evidence here that there is a difference in harnesses. I doubt if the cared to look
1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1968 RS 327 4 speed
1970 Z28 M22 4:10 bought from original owner
1961 Chrysler 300G convertible

firstgenaddict

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2016, 04:43:25 PM »
It's the same thing with the wire harness clips which hold the harness to the fender rad support etc... they were originally black now they are white, I would have a few thousand injection molded in black if they would use them.
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2016, 07:15:29 PM »
Since they are on the other side of the country I just can't pop in and talk face to face.  So I'm reluctant to deal with them about it either via email or phone since they seem reluctant to correct the harness as we stand right now. 
   According to Marc that wrote the reply above, he states they have nothing of the sort that even resembles cloth.  In another email he did state the cloth looking substance is part of the wire just as you mention Bill, however he tells me that only comes in the resistance wire only, as that's how they receive it from their supplier, he can't do the other coil wire and he can't do the starter wires, they don't come that way.  Ironically that's the same reply I got from Lectric Limited too.
   Bill, I'm not sure how you got yours fixed but right now they seem uninterested in dealing with it.

   So apparently we are stuck with incorrect engine harness for gauge cars.   

68camaroz28

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2016, 08:23:07 PM »
It's the same thing with the wire harness clips which hold the harness to the fender rad support etc... they were originally black now they are white, I would have a few thousand injection molded in black if they would use them.
Same or similar with bolt that holds wiring harness' connection to firewall. Theirs is yellow zinc and originals are clear zinc. They know several of these things as I have talked to reps. Recently had a ground wire sent to me that missing and it was $12 but shipping I found out when arrived was over $13 and the wire 10" wire fit in an envelope. Dang!
Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2016, 09:25:39 PM »
I replaced the center bolt as well, used a set of expanders on the ring and then closed it back with pliers.
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2016, 10:10:05 PM »
Makes me wonder what they replaced mine with.  I am not home or would post a picture.
1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1968 RS 327 4 speed
1970 Z28 M22 4:10 bought from original owner
1961 Chrysler 300G convertible

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2016, 10:45:59 PM »
I'd be curious too Bill.  My guess is that they probably sell so many 69 Camaro engine harnesses as they are, that they really don't care to change anything.  They are making their money and there are only a select few of us that care about little details like cloth coverings, and we aren't where their profit is.

68camaroz28

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #58 on: February 19, 2016, 02:33:04 PM »
I replaced the center bolt as well, used a set of expanders on the ring and then closed it back with pliers.


Yes as many of us have I'm sure James! I used my orig but glass beaded it and then clear zinc done. Just a note for all the bolt they use which is yellow zinc was just about exactly the same as original except for coating. Seems like it would be such an easy change to correct.
Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2016, 01:50:03 PM »
I can live with the bolt plating or the white plastic clips, because both of those are easy to fix, and the bolt is pretty much impossible to see when the car is assembled anyway.

The cloth to me though is a major screw up that is very visible, especially up by the coil.  I found it interesting that they have changed the color of the starter wires too.

On another note,
He mentioned the covering to me that they use for the temp gauge wire.  A heavy black colored covering that was talked about earlier.  I have a box of about 200 feet of that stuff, mine still being the real asbestos material.  I know what they use today wouldn't be asbestos so I'm curious how well they duplicate this part.  Again, another very visible part of the harness, however part of the front light harness I believe.

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #60 on: February 20, 2016, 01:52:49 PM »
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 04:11:32 AM by KurtS »

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #61 on: February 20, 2016, 02:03:47 PM »
I found this place by accident.  Looks like the wire is in the cloth already in these examples.

http://vintagewireandsupply.com/by-the-roll-1/ 

I don't see white, but some of the houndstooth covering looks interesting, lol.

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #62 on: February 20, 2016, 02:05:27 PM »
Here are some images, I see white in there, has to be available somewhere.....

http://www.dhresource.com/200x200/f2/albu/g3/M01/C5/69/rBVaHVUdAdeAQbijAALrurILoMw349.jpg 

69Z28-RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #63 on: February 20, 2016, 02:49:36 PM »
The first link you posted included white (off white) and ivory and many other colors.   All of the  cloth covered wires you linked to were 3 conductor wiring inside the cloth outer covering, although the manufacturer could likely make the product with your desired number of conductors inside their cloth outer covering.
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #64 on: February 20, 2016, 08:36:54 PM »
Good news,,, I think.

I gave this to my wife, she has a knack for research.  Sure enough in 10 minutes she found it.  1/8" sheath by itself in 10 foot sections for $10.  It's white, possibly an off white, hard to tell in the pictures.  It's expandable to an extent so shouldn't be a problem to fish a single 18 or even 16 or 14 gauge wire through it.

I figure for $10 I'll try it and see. It will be here Thursday.   If it looks good I'll go with a new engine harness and put this on myself.   

68camaroz28

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #65 on: February 20, 2016, 09:42:59 PM »
Good news,,, I think.

I gave this to my wife, she has a knack for research.  Sure enough in 10 minutes she found it.  1/8" sheath by itself in 10 foot sections for $10.  It's white, possibly an off white, hard to tell in the pictures.  It's expandable to an extent so shouldn't be a problem to fish a single 18 or even 16 or 14 gauge wire through it.

I figure for $10 I'll try it and see. It will be here Thursday.   If it looks good I'll go with a new engine harness and put this on myself.   
How about telling us where she found it? :)
Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584

X33RS

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #66 on: February 20, 2016, 11:18:08 PM »
Will do, it's already ordered.  Hang tight I'll check with her and I'll have some updates.

firstgenaddict

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2016, 12:03:53 AM »
From the same site...





James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

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Re: Correct Style Engine Comparment Harness?
« Reply #68 on: February 24, 2016, 01:45:31 AM »
I looked at my original coil wires today. they look like they had a varnish on them. I am not sure if thats why the one appears yellow or if they really were different colors. maybe they were different colors to tell them apart. picture is after I rolled some of the tape back
1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1968 RS 327 4 speed
1970 Z28 M22 4:10 bought from original owner
1961 Chrysler 300G convertible

 

anything