Author Topic: after market cross ram  (Read 11447 times)

canadair

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after market cross ram
« on: December 30, 2015, 06:28:27 PM »
there are a number of cross rams for sale does anyone know if there are ones to stay away from Jerry has one on his site thats sold buy a guy in MI.also on ebay There is also Heartbeat city which is very expensive How are the ones that are now listed on ebay and will the valve covers come off once installed

bcmiller

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Re: after market cross ram
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2015, 10:24:14 PM »
If Jerry has one, give him a call.

But cross rams CAN be difficult to get the carbs exactly right at low rpms. They were designed to pretty much run above 3000.  Some guys can get them to run fine though.

In most cases you won't need anything more than 850 cfm. The stock 4 barrel carb would flow about 800.

I am curious why do you want to run a cross ram?
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

69Z28-RS

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Re: after market cross ram
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2015, 03:42:40 AM »
These days cross rams are for impressing car show attendees..  not for driving..  :)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

Mark

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Re: after market cross ram
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2015, 02:13:50 PM »
The repro cross rams used to command a massive premium 3 or 4 years ago, going for somewhere around 5K just for the manifolds, these days the allure is over and prices have plunged, but unless you are going for a concourse restoration (which would really require and NOS setup) your probably better off going with an Offenhauser coss ram, other than having offenhauser on them and a pair of loops cast into the manifold for the linkage they are almost identical to the originals, and will only run you about 500 bucks for the base, and the top.  Have the Offenhauser name, linkage supports,  and the extra markings machined off of the loid and get the lid reskinned to make the machined areas match the rest of the manifold and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.
Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

Kelley W King

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Re: after market cross ram
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2015, 07:23:52 PM »
I agree. With anything rare people don,t usually have a real one to compare with. My 66 GTO has several parts that are not exactly correct but how often do you see two 66 tripower cars at the same place unless at a Pontiac only show. The 64,65, and 66 intakes were all different but I see cars where the owner does not even know.
69 Z28 RS Scuncio Hi Performance
69 SS L78
67 SS Chevelle
64 Corvette
66 GTO Tiger Gold
77 Trans Am Special Edition

WorkinProgress

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Re: after market cross ram
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2016, 12:11:10 AM »
Why is this posted in the orphan section? It should be moved to General Discussion.

bcmiller

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Re: after market cross ram
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2016, 05:48:13 PM »
Topic moved to General Discussion.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

68camaroz28

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Re: after market cross ram
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2016, 02:07:58 AM »
These days cross rams are for impressing car show attendees..  not for driving..  :)
You need to ride in mine! Idles all day long at 800 rpm but the original short block is now 383 cu. in. with solid roller. Granted they can be a bear but with some carb tricks etc. from a few professionals they can be just fine. People cannot believe how well it idles and no hard cold start ups either. :) RaceKrafters deserves all the credit for how our engine runs and idles.
Both intake and carbs certified by Wayne Q.
Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584

69Z28-RS

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Re: after market cross ram
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2016, 05:49:55 AM »
I'd be glad to take a ride in your car, Chick...  I'm sure it's amazing...  (so long as I don't have to buy the gas!).. :)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

z28z11

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Re: after market cross ram
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2016, 02:22:35 PM »
Like a lot of people, the allure of a cross ram hit me in fall of '71, when I looked at a cross ram equipped '69 Z for sale locally ($2500 if you can believe it, car was involved in a messy divorce proceedings). Several years ago I started altering Offenhauser cross rams to emulate the Winters original, machining the top and "reskinning" it to remove the milling feed lines. They turn out very close to originals, the biggest difference is the size of the top bolts (1/4" Offenhauser, 5/16" originals), there is a minute difference in the gasketing, but overall they will pass inspection at first glance if you don't mind the missing logo. Carbs are 600 cfm DP Holleys, match the 4295 original flow rating, you'll need to jet and power valve as original 4295 specs. Everything else is available as reproduction (air cleaners, fuel lines, brackets and cables). The oil fill tube repro that's available is a '68 pattern, the (parts book) listed '69 fill tube is not currently reproduced. I've completed several of these, sold a couple locally and some on eBay. If you scrounge, you can build a good unit complete for about $1500-$2000, and depending on exhaust and tune (work best with headers and non-point ignition): they are impressive, and are sure to draw a lot of attention no matter where you are.

Current reproduction cross ram units run around $2500 for the manifold, but it's mighty close to the originals. Some people have had problems with the valve cover clearance when using stock aluminum GM covers, especially if your heads are milled - the fix is to use a set af later covers and machine the upper gasket rail to clear the manifold. I don't think I would recommend milling an original set of covers unless you have a bunch of NOS parts you don't mind altering.

If your after the look and feel, but not the numbers, that's the best way I know of to do it -

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W 1967 Chevy ll Nova SS 
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06  1949 3100 5wd 235/6

bcmiller

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Re: after market cross ram
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2016, 09:35:08 PM »
These days cross rams are for impressing car show attendees..  not for driving..  :)
You need to ride in mine! Idles all day long at 800 rpm but the original short block is now 383 cu. in. with solid roller. Granted they can be a bear but with some carb tricks etc. from a few professionals they can be just fine.

383? Isn't that cheating just a bit? :)

Easier to do with more cubic inches. My father used to run two 750s and a tunnel ram on the big blocks in his jet boats. Yes they would idle fine, but It was not easy to get to them to that point. We had to though. The marina where we typically launched was a no wake zone. ;)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 09:59:15 PM by bcmiller »
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

L78 steve

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Re: after market cross ram
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2016, 09:55:56 PM »
These days cross rams are for impressing car show attendees..  not for driving..  :)
You need to ride in mine! Idles all day long at 800 rpm but the original short block is now 383 cu. in. with solid roller. Granted they can be a bear but with some carb tricks etc. from a few professionals they can be just fine. People cannot believe how well it idles and no hard cold start ups either. :) RaceKrafters deserves all the credit for how our engine runs and idles.
Both intake and carbs certified by Wayne Q.

You notched your DZ block?
69 Z/28 Dover White. SOLD
67 SS/RS Mt. Green 1W,2LGSR,3SL,4K,5BY,07C. SOLD
70 Nova L78 Blk. Cherry,Sandalwood,M21,02B

X33RS

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Re: after market cross ram
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2016, 10:52:54 PM »
Not too difficult to make them work if you know your way around the holleys.  Pretty simple carb really compared to some of the more intricate fuel mixers.  Very rare for them to be spot on right out of the box.   I'll work on the idle feed restrictors (usually leaner) and use a wideband to dial in the idle AFR and then go from there.  That's where I find they need the most work on a dual setup.

  There was a 69 Z that rolled into a cruise in up here a couple years ago, very nicely done car, but idling rough, black smoke, loading up.  He had trouble keeping it running while he parked it.  I asked him if he got some dirt in the needle and seat.  His response was "no just one too many carbs"
   He popped the hood and there was a nicely detailed cross ram setup.  It doesn't help that we are up 5,000 ft. either.  After talking a bit I mentioned to him, it doesn't have to run that way.  He was a little arrogant, the well to do type, acting as though the car is supposed to act the way it was.  Not sure where he got that idea from but I could tell it was more along the lines that he just didn't know how to make it any better, gave me the impression he bought the car and/or paid for the restoration.  Trying to be polite, I mentioned I could dial it in better for him and make the car much more pleasurable to drive if he was willing to leave the car for a day, and could stay with it if he preferred.  It wasn't until another happy customer walked over to say hi to me and recommended I get his carbs straightened out that he eventually agreed.   That thing ran pretty good after we were done with it. 

68camaroz28

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Re: after market cross ram
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2016, 12:34:12 AM »
Like a lot of people, the allure of a cross ram hit me in fall of '71, when I looked at a cross ram equipped '69 Z for sale locally ($2500 if you can believe it, car was involved in a messy divorce proceedings). Several years ago I started altering Offenhauser cross rams to emulate the Winters original, machining the top and "reskinning" it to remove the milling feed lines. They turn out very close to originals, the biggest difference is the size of the top bolts (1/4" Offenhauser, 5/16" originals), there is a minute difference in the gasketing, but overall they will pass inspection at first glance if you don't mind the missing logo. Carbs are 600 cfm DP Holleys, match the 4295 original flow rating, you'll need to jet and power valve as original 4295 specs. Everything else is available as reproduction (air cleaners, fuel lines, brackets and cables). The oil fill tube repro that's available is a '68 pattern, the (parts book) listed '69 fill tube is not currently reproduced. I've completed several of these, sold a couple locally and some on eBay. If you scrounge, you can build a good unit complete for about $1500-$2000, and depending on exhaust and tune (work best with headers and non-point ignition): they are impressive, and are sure to draw a lot of attention no matter where you are.

Current reproduction cross ram units run around $2500 for the manifold, but it's mighty close to the originals. Some people have had problems with the valve cover clearance when using stock aluminum GM covers, especially if your heads are milled - the fix is to use a set af later covers and machine the upper gasket rail to clear the manifold. I don't think I would recommend milling an original set of covers unless you have a bunch of NOS parts you don't mind altering.

If your after the look and feel, but not the numbers, that's the best way I know of to do it -

Regards,
Steve
Well done write up Steve! With ours as you seemed to allude to the most significant thing completed were some carb enhancements that made the car run like day and night.
Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584

jdv69z

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Re: after market cross ram
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2016, 02:11:38 PM »
Question: So are those running a cross ram also running the matching 140 cam? Or stock 30/30 cam?
Jimmy V.

 

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