Author Topic: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)  (Read 58206 times)

KurtS

  • CRG Coordinator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5881
    • View Profile
Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« on: December 07, 2015, 03:05:44 AM »
This probably could be in originality section. :)
How the cowls are painted on Z-striped cars is often discussed. So here's some pics.

Here is an original owner yellow car. 05A NOR



The green one is not my Z, but it's really close. Mine has a bit more white on the driver's side, but it clearly fades away to the green underneath just like this car.


Pacers were done differently.
Picture courtesy of SCW / Brian Henderson.  03B NOR
They really didn't want the orange everywhere on the NOR pacers so they were masked off. I've seen LOS pacers with coverage all over the top of the cowl.
Kurt S
CRG

BULLITT65

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4476
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2015, 04:03:02 AM »
great pics on that yellow car. Looks like a gloss black on the cowl, and then goes to more of a flat on the firewall.
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

KurtS

  • CRG Coordinator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5881
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2015, 05:14:46 AM »
Feel free to add more pics to this thread. That is the intent.
Kurt S
CRG

cook_dw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3981
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2015, 01:37:02 PM »
69 Z

cook_dw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3981
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2015, 01:41:17 PM »
69 Yellow Z

cook_dw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3981
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2015, 01:45:04 PM »
05A LOS 67

cook_dw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3981
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2015, 02:35:07 PM »
68 Corvette Bronze Z

BULLITT65

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4476
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2015, 03:42:52 PM »
O5A norwood, Garnet red Z
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

1968RSZ28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6188
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2015, 04:46:05 PM »
Norwood '68 Z28...



Paul

Edgemontvillage

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 784
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2015, 08:35:35 AM »
1969 RS Z/28 Hugger Orange (72 72) Norwood, 2B production.




firstgenaddict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2882
  • caretaker of 1971 LT1's 11130 & 21783
    • View Profile
    • Groome Family Automobiles
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2016, 04:27:24 AM »
All Norwood Cars -




































This one was sent to me by Mark Bulaw


James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

69Z28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 928
  • 69 X33D80 Z28
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2016, 10:09:53 PM »
See a lot of white striped painted cars, but are black striped cars even painted considering the cowl is black? Just curious. My Silver with black stripes don't seem to have ANY over spray in the wiper motor well area, under the cowl panel. I can't say much for what the past owners of my car did, but the wiper area is untouched.
GaryC

'UNRESTORED' 1969 Cortez Silver Z28 X33 D80

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2016, 02:17:37 PM »
Yes the black stripe cars are painted in this manor as well.  I can't speak for all because different times of the year and different plants, but I can tell you for certain mine is this way and is unrestored.
  12D Norwood and the top of my cowl definitely has gloss black sprayed on the top of the cowl and it quickly fades to a flatter black as it transitions to the firewall.   It's much harder to see but as I'm carefully cleaning this car it became apparent there are 2 different blacks there.
  I would imagine restored black stripe cars probably don't even bother with this little detail so you won't see many done this way (shucks even white stripe cars aren't done this way on most restorations that I see).  I will duplicate this however just as I see it on mine.  Very easy to fade it in being black and black, and will likely go unnoticed by most people.

Edit:  If it helps verify, I just noticed the very first picture that Kurt put in the first post.  You can clearly see the gloss black on top of the cowl that fades to the flatter black, on a black stripe car.  Much later car than mine but appears to be very close to the same.  However mine has much better coverage of the black as I can see no frost green showing through anywhere on the cowl or firewall area.  Guess they were much more generous with the blackout that day on my car.

firstgenaddict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2882
  • caretaker of 1971 LT1's 11130 & 21783
    • View Profile
    • Groome Family Automobiles
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2016, 03:58:02 PM »








James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2016, 05:52:36 PM »
Yes the black stripe cars are painted in this manor as well.  I can't speak for all because different times of the year and different plants, but I can tell you for certain mine is this way and is unrestored.
  12D Norwood and the top of my cowl definitely has gloss black sprayed on the top of the cowl and it quickly fades to a flatter black as it transitions to the firewall.   It's much harder to see but as I'm carefully cleaning this car it became apparent there are 2 different blacks there.
  I would imagine restored black stripe cars probably don't even bother with this little detail so you won't see many done this way (shucks even white stripe cars aren't done this way on most restorations that I see).  I will duplicate this however just as I see it on mine.  Very easy to fade it in being black and black, and will likely go unnoticed by most people.

Edit:  If it helps verify, I just noticed the very first picture that Kurt put in the first post.  You can clearly see the gloss black on top of the cowl that fades to the flatter black, on a black stripe car.  Much later car than mine but appears to be very close to the same.  However mine has much better coverage of the black as I can see no frost green showing through anywhere on the cowl or firewall area.  Guess they were much more generous with the blackout that day on my car.

X33...  My unrrestored Z28  (09C of 1969) is the same as yours... more glossy black coverage on top of the cowl...
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2016, 03:46:51 PM »
Yes the black stripe cars are painted in this manor as well.  I can't speak for all because different times of the year and different plants, but I can tell you for certain mine is this way and is unrestored.
  12D Norwood and the top of my cowl definitely has gloss black sprayed on the top of the cowl and it quickly fades to a flatter black as it transitions to the firewall.   It's much harder to see but as I'm carefully cleaning this car it became apparent there are 2 different blacks there.
  I would imagine restored black stripe cars probably don't even bother with this little detail so you won't see many done this way (shucks even white stripe cars aren't done this way on most restorations that I see).  I will duplicate this however just as I see it on mine.  Very easy to fade it in being black and black, and will likely go unnoticed by most people.

Edit:  If it helps verify, I just noticed the very first picture that Kurt put in the first post.  You can clearly see the gloss black on top of the cowl that fades to the flatter black, on a black stripe car.  Much later car than mine but appears to be very close to the same.  However mine has much better coverage of the black as I can see no frost green showing through anywhere on the cowl or firewall area.  Guess they were much more generous with the blackout that day on my car.

X33...  My unrrestored Z28  (09C of 1969) is the same as yours... more glossy black coverage on top of the cowl...


Do you have any orange showing through like some of them I'm seeing?   Mine has excellent black coverage with no frost green bleeding through anywhere. 

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2016, 04:42:57 PM »
....
Do you have any orange showing through like some of them I'm seeing?   Mine has excellent black coverage with no frost green bleeding through anywhere. 

Not sure I'd call it 'bleeding thru', but certainly where the black has flecked off.. see photo...
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2016, 05:03:03 PM »
Okay, you're up under the cowl.  I haven't removed my cowl yet.  I was more referring to the area where the cowl transitions to the firewall.  I see a lot of poor coverage of black in that area on some cars where the body color is bleeding through.

Looking at that picture, I see yours is generously covered with black just like mine.  Weird how our cars are so far apart yet built similar.

Another interesting note.  I see green "PTB" on the driver side of your firewall.  My car was done in Orange but only on the passenger side.  I see remnants of it, that's it.  I have found nothing on the driver side at all.

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2016, 05:26:41 PM »
My car only had the PTB stamps on the drivers side, in green... and actually there's a 'second' T faintly below the trim tag... like the fella did it..  and then said..  'I believe I can do it better!).. :)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2016, 05:52:56 PM »
Ah, so you have PTB on one side too, just on the left side instead of the right side.    Every car I see has both sides stamped.  Neat to see another one done similar to mine.   Are you sure that's not a December car  ;D

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2016, 07:52:33 PM »
Ah, so you have PTB on one side too, just on the left side instead of the right side.    Every car I see has both sides stamped.  Neat to see another one done similar to mine.   Are you sure that's not a December car  ;D

It seems the great majority of the 'restored cars'...  are stamped on both sides in both colors...   :)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

firstgenaddict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2882
  • caretaker of 1971 LT1's 11130 & 21783
    • View Profile
    • Groome Family Automobiles
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2016, 07:01:51 PM »
They were more likely to have been worn or rubbed off on the pass side, due to not being behind the master, Gary, I can't explain yours. It was an ink and not paint so it didn't take much to rub it off.




James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2016, 08:26:17 PM »
I've owned the car since 1976, and never noticed the existence of the stamp marks until 2 or 3 yrs ago, and after reading JohnZ's believable explanation of what they meant, I checked and found what I found.  It was more recent than that, after removing my Booster/MC for rebuild that I found a faint '2nd' T mark below the cowl tag. 

As far as explanation, I'm not sure what you mean unless its why they aren't on both sides on all cars?  I suspect that situation is due to having a single person doing that inspection in the Fisher plant, rather than one on each side of the car.
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

ko-lek-tor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1858
  • someday I'll get one finished
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2016, 09:25:47 PM »
I cannot comment on the both side of cowl stamp. I only have found one set on the LH side (Yes, a Dec. car). Someone got a little creative with my stamp. Not absolutely sure on the B..it is (was) very faint. For posterity's sake.
Bentley to friends :1969 SS/RS 396 owned 79
1969 SS 350 (sold)
1969 D.H.COPO replica 4spd. owned since 85
1967 302 4 spd 5.13

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2016, 10:57:21 PM »
So that makes 2 December cars with only a single PTB stamp.  We might be on to something then.  Mine is only on the right hand side though.  I see nothing at all behind or around the booster anywhere.

firstgenaddict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2882
  • caretaker of 1971 LT1's 11130 & 21783
    • View Profile
    • Groome Family Automobiles
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2016, 11:23:02 PM »
So that makes 2 December cars with only a single PTB stamp.  We might be on to something then.  Mine is only on the right hand side though.  I see nothing at all behind or around the booster anywhere.

The Silver car I posted is a 12C with stamps on both sides.  I have seen many many with 2 T's on the drivers, I don't know if it was a T to check for the T trim tag and a T for Trim.
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

68camaroz28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2228
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2016, 02:14:30 AM »
So that makes 2 December cars with only a single PTB stamp.  We might be on to something then.  Mine is only on the right hand side though.  I see nothing at all behind or around the booster anywhere.

The Silver car I posted is a 12C with stamps on both sides.  I have seen many many with 2 T's on the drivers, I don't know if it was a T to check for the T trim tag and a T for Trim.
I've noticed that also James with two "T's" on the drivers side and it seems one is always upside down or at least on the ones I've checked. Recently noted a 67 with the "T" under the fender drivers side which I have read is quite common.
Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2016, 02:42:55 AM »
So that makes 2 December cars with only a single PTB stamp.  We might be on to something then.  Mine is only on the right hand side though.  I see nothing at all behind or around the booster anywhere.

The Silver car I posted is a 12C with stamps on both sides.  I have seen many many with 2 T's on the drivers, I don't know if it was a T to check for the T trim tag and a T for Trim.

Hmm, wonder why mine isn't showing anything there.  I would tend to think that stamps on the driver side would have a better chance of surviving since it's hidden out of the way behind the booster and what not.  But oddly partials of mine survived on the passenger side.
Is the stamp on one side not very commonly seen?   I never understood why they would have 2 sets anyway but that's what I see on unrestored and restored cars.   It's as if they had 2 inspectors that had to stamp the cars?

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2016, 04:39:44 AM »
So that makes 2 December cars with only a single PTB stamp.  We might be on to something then.  Mine is only on the right hand side though.  I see nothing at all behind or around the booster anywhere.

The Silver car I posted is a 12C with stamps on both sides.  I have seen many many with 2 T's on the drivers, I don't know if it was a T to check for the T trim tag and a T for Trim.

Now THAT is an idea... that makes sense.. a T to verify that the trim tag is in place... (the 2nd one on mine is light and below the trim tag and I believe I've seen another one or two cars which have T stamps identical to that)..
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

firstgenaddict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2882
  • caretaker of 1971 LT1's 11130 & 21783
    • View Profile
    • Groome Family Automobiles
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2016, 04:48:19 AM »


James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2016, 12:43:09 PM »
So that makes 2 December cars with only a single PTB stamp.  We might be on to something then.  Mine is only on the right hand side though.  I see nothing at all behind or around the booster anywhere.

The Silver car I posted is a 12C with stamps on both sides.  I have seen many many with 2 T's on the drivers, I don't know if it was a T to check for the T trim tag and a T for Trim.

Now THAT is an idea... that makes sense.. a T to verify that the trim tag is in place... (the 2nd one on mine is light and below the trim tag and I believe I've seen another one or two cars which have T stamps identical to that)..

Interesting for sure Gary.  I have none of that on mine.  And since there are so many restored examples with stamps on both sides I tend to wonder if people are just following a trend and afraid to step outside of what is considered "normal"

Until I can find more evidence of original cars with a stamp on one side, I'm simply going to restore mine just as I see it, with PTB on the passenger side only.  If at some point it's determined that there definitely should be a stamp on the driver side, then it's easy enough to go back and add it after the fact.  Not a big deal.   I'd like to see more 12D cars though, particularly unrestored, but unfortunately I'm told there aren't many 12D's documented here, unrestored or restored.

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2016, 07:02:50 PM »
Correction,  This was bugging me so I pulled the car back down, I gave my son some super blue to give the area a little sheen, and a bright LED light and told him to look for stamps around the booster.  His eye's are better than mine.
  I fell over when he said "yeah there is a "T" under the trim tag, and "BTP" off to the right side.

It's so faint you just can't see it without assistance from artificial light and some solvent to give the area a wet look.  Odd that this side didn't hold up very well while the passenger side you can see in the dark, lol.

So this car is in fact much like the 12C car posted above.

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2016, 08:04:37 PM »
Well hell..  *L*    I suppose I'm going to have to go inspect my passenger side a bit more closely (although I've looked pretty well before... with my old eyes).. :)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2016, 10:42:21 PM »
On the passenger side of mine it's not like others I've seen where the letters are all clumped together.  My letters are spread out evenly straight across the top with about 2" between each letter.  Rather neatly done.   Driver side is sloppy with crooked letters clumped together.  The only straight letter on that side is the T under the trim tag.

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2016, 10:48:38 PM »
On the passenger side of mine it's not like others I've seen where the letters are all clumped together.  My letters are spread out evenly straight across the top with about 2" between each letter.  Rather neatly done.   Driver side is sloppy with crooked letters clumped together.  The only straight letter on that side is the T under the trim tag.

if I recall JohnZ's explanation correctly, the reason both sides were stamped (typically) is that they had checkers on both sides of the car, checking the Paint, Trim, and Body... not sure if this was 3 guys or one, and that probably varied as well at different times.  Maybe on your passenger side it was ONE man checking all three items, and he was a 'neatnik' (or maybe overly conscientious on his first day?)..  :)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2016, 01:27:45 AM »
Thanks for the explanation Gary.  Makes sense.

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2016, 04:50:06 AM »
I went to the garage tonight with a high intensity flashlight and examined the passenger side on my firewall...  Nuttin...  no trace of any stamps ever being there even though the paint is in very good shape, whereas on the drivers side they are very legible (once I looked for them).. :)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

Bryan302

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 179
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2016, 07:19:22 AM »
Well, you two have stirred my curiosity about my stamps on my 05A Z.  Up until now, I thought I had found them all, maybe not!  I found a green P and B behind booster and next to the harness hook , and no T.  I found my T on the right side, centered above the heater core box, nearly to top of firewall.

Would ya'll think my T just wound up on the right side, or I might have two sets?  There are no signs of any other letters without magnification and serious light, which I will do next.   

Does anyone know what shift is for green, day or night?

Bryan
Bryan S.
1968 RS Z/28, 12E, PNT R2, TR 749
1969 Z/28 X33, 05A, PNT 52 52, TR 719, endura bumper

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2016, 02:44:34 PM »
Bryan, the stamps on the right side of mine above the heater box are also right along the very top edge of the firewall just as you describe your T.    Mine are very neatly placed and evenly spaced compared to most that you see.

It took high intensity light and some liquid to shine things up to find them on the driver side, and I gave that job to my son, he has better eye's than me.  Without any of that there is nothing visible at all, so I always assumed there was nothing there.

I don't know the significance of the color change from orange and green but my first guess is the same as yours, a shift change.

ko-lek-tor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1858
  • someday I'll get one finished
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2016, 05:05:58 PM »
  Does anyone know what shift is for green, day or night?

Bryan

I cannot remember where I read, but I believe, to my understanding and memory, that green was 2nd shift, red 1st. Can someone else confirm this, please ?
Bentley to friends :1969 SS/RS 396 owned 79
1969 SS 350 (sold)
1969 D.H.COPO replica 4spd. owned since 85
1967 302 4 spd 5.13

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2016, 07:00:35 PM »
Bentley,  I just searched for posts on this topic by JohnZ and didn't find any specific shift information, but in one post responding to that question, John states that 'it was hard to say as people/things changed all the time'... This thread has some good information in it re the PTB stamps and colors, etc...

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10034.0
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2016, 03:39:48 AM »
Hmm, seems they can't agree on the placement of the heat riser.  Mine was in the downward position like shown on John's car and the AIM so that's how I'll reinstall it.

If I read everything right there is only a vague mention of the shift change verses color change on the PTB stamps.  Possibly orange being day shift and green being night shift or second shift.  But it sounds as though that's not certain either.

Bryan302

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 179
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2016, 06:03:49 AM »
Would it be possible to compare components that might have been shift coded and would match up to the color of the PTB stamps for shifts.

My thoughts were the G1 or G2 on the rear axle, or the A or B on the steering sector.  I wold think these components were stamped at the prospective plants, but you get the idea, something that would match.

Bryan
Bryan S.
1968 RS Z/28, 12E, PNT R2, TR 749
1969 Z/28 X33, 05A, PNT 52 52, TR 719, endura bumper

1968 Z28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2016, 04:47:21 PM »
I have a 07C 1968 Z28 that has a mixed bag of colors.  The passenger side has an orange B & P with a green T in line and spaced above the heater box.  The driver side has an Orange B, P, & T  to the right of the wire loom hook and then has an upright green T under the trim tag.  Can't understand how the different colors would line up with shifts in this combination.  Seems that if you had someone inspecting the car for the BPT that they would be doing the inspecting all at one time.  Well I can see the trim tag inspection might be added at a different time than the other inspections.
Jerry G.

Z28-1968-07C-Norwood
Ermine White, Red Std. Interior
2nd. Owner, 38,000 miles

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2016, 05:00:10 PM »
JohnZ had posted in a different thread on this topc (several years ago), that the only way different colors would appear on the same car would be a situation where the car did not pass a specific inspection the first pass, and had to be returned for rework or replacement of a part...    made sense to me.. :)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

1968 Z28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2016, 05:06:05 PM »
Now that you mentioned that scenario, I remember reading that post before.  Just took a little memory jogging.  Guess it didn't pass the trim test on the passenger side and had to be corrected and then run back through on the next shift.

Another observation....the green T stamp on the passenger side has an anomaly on it (looks like a piece of fiber attached to the bottom that curls up half way up the upright part of the T).  The green T under the trim tag also has the same anomaly.....So that seems to tell me that the trim tag stamp was probably done with the same stamp after the other PTB inspections were completed and passed.  Interesting.

Here is the passenger side T stamp...
     

Here is the trim tag T stamp...
     
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 07:01:32 PM by 1968 Z28 »
Jerry G.

Z28-1968-07C-Norwood
Ermine White, Red Std. Interior
2nd. Owner, 38,000 miles

firstgenaddict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2882
  • caretaker of 1971 LT1's 11130 & 21783
    • View Profile
    • Groome Family Automobiles
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2016, 04:42:43 PM »


It appears there is Ermine white mist over the firewall, the inspection marks are over the white mist correct?
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

cook_dw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3981
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2016, 05:19:27 PM »
All great discussion & info on the PBT stampings but shouldn't this be separated into another thread for better searching in the future?

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2016, 05:45:57 PM »
Isn't the cowl paint, and how it was painted related to the PBT stamps since some of the cowl paint 'misted' down over the upper reaches of the firewall (to wit, James' post)...??  which came first?  the chicken or the egg?  :)
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

1968 Z28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2016, 07:21:48 PM »


It appears there is Ermine white mist over the firewall, the inspection marks are over the white mist correct?

Hi James.....The car color is Ermine white and that is the basic color showing through the fogged on firewall blackout.  The firewall blackout is good up to the seam but above the seam the firewall paint seems to be rather sparse....as I said earlier it looks to be fogged on and has a rough texture.  That fog goes from the heater motor area all the way over to the windshield wiper area where the black is really faint and the white really shows up well.  After the windshield wiper hole the firewall paint is good and solid. The cowl blackout for the stripe is solid all the way across and ends at the firewall breakover in a smooth transition.  And yes, the stamp is on top of the foggy area.
Jerry G.

Z28-1968-07C-Norwood
Ermine White, Red Std. Interior
2nd. Owner, 38,000 miles

1968 Z28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2016, 07:26:10 PM »
Isn't the cowl paint, and how it was painted related to the PBT stamps since some of the cowl paint 'misted' down over the upper reaches of the firewall (to wit, James' post)...??  which came first?  the chicken or the egg?  :)
As stated above.....seems that in my case the mist is from the firewall blackout below and the stripe blackout is rather solid to the breakover.  Don't know they got the stripe blackout transition to look that smooth.
Jerry G.

Z28-1968-07C-Norwood
Ermine White, Red Std. Interior
2nd. Owner, 38,000 miles

1968 Z28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2016, 07:28:53 PM »
All great discussion & info on the PBT stampings but shouldn't this be separated into another thread for better searching in the future?
Was thinking the same thing...this has morphed into two different aspects of the same area.
Jerry G.

Z28-1968-07C-Norwood
Ermine White, Red Std. Interior
2nd. Owner, 38,000 miles

jacmac

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 277
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2016, 12:00:45 AM »
Paint on cowl is original 69 Z10
69 Z10,69 ss396Chevelle, 71 Corvette

JohnKY

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2016, 11:02:36 PM »
Has it been established when and where the cowl was painted with the stripe color?
Was it done by Fisher, when the body was painted, or by Chevrolet when the front end was painted?

Mark

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1089
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2016, 11:13:36 PM »
Fisher, Chevy only painted the front fenders hood, and upper and lower valances, basically the stuff forward of the firewall, Fisher painted everything else.
Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

BULLITT65

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4476
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2016, 11:21:16 PM »
OK, so regarding the "T" on the passenger side what are the dates of those cars with the curling thread by the T? We have to narrow down when the thread became dislodged (or attached) from the rest of the stamp.... ;D
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

JohnKY

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #56 on: April 02, 2016, 02:10:57 AM »
Fisher, Chevy only painted the front fenders hood, and upper and lower valances, basically the stuff forward of the firewall, Fisher painted everything else.

Thanks, Mark
Just from looking at the pictures in this thread, it's hard to tell if the cowl was painted before, or after the firewall blackout. I'm assuming Fischer did the blackout.

In the most recent resto of my 68Z (late 90's) the most accurate info for the cowl paint was that it was pretty much the entire cowl section that was painted stripe color. That's the way I did it, at the time. Others have said that it was masked off so that only the area under the cowl panel was painted.
I have a NOR car, and the pictures of the cars here pretty much confirm that I'm in the ballpark, as far as paint coverage.

Mark

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1089
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #57 on: April 03, 2016, 11:47:58 AM »
Blackout was the last painting operation on Fishers side, done after all other body color, striping, etc was completed, and it included blacking out the rocker panels and tail panel if you had a car requiring those features.
Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

firstgenaddict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2882
  • caretaker of 1971 LT1's 11130 & 21783
    • View Profile
    • Groome Family Automobiles
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2016, 08:12:52 PM »
Firewall black out was not performed ALL the time, I question whether it was performed 50% of the time.
More than 50% of the unrestored cars I have observed have had a fine mist of body color on the firewall OVER whatever black was there.

05C NORWOOD Z28



03D NORWOOD Z28 Gold mist on firewall.




10D Norwood Z28






09B EARLY NORWOOD Z28





LATE 09 1200 - 1500 mile original car  -  Restored however I saw pictures of the car upon disassembly and it was just like this

James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

X33RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2016, 08:58:27 PM »
White stripe cars are pretty neat in that respect.  It's hard to see all that on a black stripe car.  I'm just getting around to cleaning up the firewall on mine and there is definite gloss black on the top of the cowl that quickly fades to a semi gloss on the forward facing firewall.  If there were any misting of the gloss black past the cowl to firewall transition it's almost impossible to tell.
  I do have a lot of frost green that shows through the firewall blackout however once you get to the tunnel transition around the bellhousing area. 

68camaroz28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2228
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #60 on: August 19, 2016, 10:10:03 PM »
07D 68 RS Z/28



Left side has white paint showing but right side does not!

Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584

bcmiller

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4004
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #61 on: August 19, 2016, 11:53:56 PM »
Thanks for posting those Chick! 
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

169INDY

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1777
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #62 on: August 18, 2017, 02:05:35 AM »
This is the best photo I could find of the teardown on my 68Z with the black cowl paint- You have to disregard the orange stripe change that someone did later in the cars life. The Gloss black in the cowl (LOS) style can be clearly seen.

Jim
Jim
68 SS/RS L35 Th-400 LOS
69 Pace Car L48 Th-350 LOS
68 Z28 M21 LOS

BillOhio

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1179
    • View Profile
    • photobucket
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #63 on: September 22, 2017, 11:37:57 PM »
Here is my original cowl paint. 03D norwood. These are in a thread here somewhere but thought it would be good with the others. The black on the firewall IS NOT original. The original owner did that with a brush. I believe the dum  dum on the driver side is the original also.
1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1968 RS 327 4 speed
1970 Z28 M22 4:10 bought from original owner
1961 Chrysler 300G convertible

6667ss138

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 524
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #64 on: September 22, 2017, 11:54:38 PM »
Great pictures!

firstgenaddict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2882
  • caretaker of 1971 LT1's 11130 & 21783
    • View Profile
    • Groome Family Automobiles
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2020, 04:47:54 PM »
I may have posted these before however I saw late in the discussion someone stated something about black stripe cars... I have an example of a black stripe which illustrates the difference in the black stripe and black out colors. The stripe black is sprayed with a much finer mist.



James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

169INDY

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1777
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #66 on: February 02, 2020, 07:15:38 PM »
Local Kitsap County Western Wa Lore; Guy Losses Girl, can't live anymore and performs high speed suicide meeting up with a Large fir Tree.

Scratch one Young Life and 68Z (LOS)

I thought about why I would even mention this then post the remains of the car, as it has detail of cowl paint, Body went to the scrapper during the scrap steel price spike in the 2000's my buddy shot the cowl tag and automotive body in a truck as it headed out for melt down.

I am sure that "our" concerns about mental health and the topic of self injury are serious and I support my local Kitsap Mental Health suicide help phone line via employee deduction to & via United Way direct deposit via the Combine Federal Campaign.

My heart goes out to ANY family that has to deal with this.

James (JIM)
Jim
68 SS/RS L35 Th-400 LOS
69 Pace Car L48 Th-350 LOS
68 Z28 M21 LOS

firstgenaddict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2882
  • caretaker of 1971 LT1's 11130 & 21783
    • View Profile
    • Groome Family Automobiles
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #67 on: May 30, 2022, 09:29:08 AM »
This thread has to do with Z28 Stripes on the Cowl - how about the wiper cowl panel?

I have noted that the Norwood Original paint wiper cowls do not follow the recess, the stripe inside stripe extends outside the recess by approx 5/16-3/8"
The Original paint LA cars do follow the recess area.
IF anyone has an original paint car which has something different please share photos.

FIRST photo Lemans Blue LA built
SECOND photo Black - NOR built
James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
Current caretaker of 1971 LT1's - 11130 and 21783 Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://plus.google.com/photos/112392262205377424364/albums?banner=pwa

BULLITT65

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4476
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #68 on: May 30, 2022, 03:19:39 PM »
Not something different, but perhaps a better angle showing the original paint on the cowl and how it extends over the recess. My late 69 08C car
1969 garnet red Z/28 46k mile unrestored X77
-Looking for 3192477 (front) spiral shocks 3192851 (rear)
-Looking for an original LOF soft ray windshield
-Looking for original Delco side post negative battery cable part # 6297651AV

Dave69x33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 542
    • View Profile
Re: Z28 cowl paint (and Z11/Z10)
« Reply #69 on: September 19, 2022, 04:28:18 PM »
James (firstgenaddict),

The original yellow X77 Z28 Norwood 04C build car, VIN N630018 - did you purchase it at Mecum - Indy this past May?  I live in Indy and attended Mecum twice and could not stop photo documenting this amazing original survivor '69 Z28.  As I recall, only the tires were replaced on the car.  The odometer indicated only 33,661 miles! What was really interesting about this car were the Harper College student parking decals still in the rear widow from years, 1968 - 1969 and 1969 - 1970, along with original oil change and service sticker.  It appeared to be a very complete car and outstanding time piece.

 

anything