Author Topic: BB manifold still tapping PS box  (Read 7566 times)

sixt9x33rs

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BB manifold still tapping PS box
« on: November 08, 2015, 11:36:38 AM »
I put new motor mounts on my 69 L35 convertible but still have this annoying bumping of the manifold on the ps box. It only happens when the car is in reverse at certain rpms. Not a problem going down the road. I installed correct smog manifolds on the car hoping this would cure the problem. The previous manifolds were wrong and the problem worse. Still have not worked it all the way out. Any ideas?
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
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69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

buenymayor

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2015, 12:02:40 PM »
I just looked at my BB 4 speed car, and I've got a good 1/2" clearance between the P/S box and exhaust manifolds. Are you sure you have the right engine mounts/frame stands/cross member? The L and R frame stands aren't swapped side to side, are they?

sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2015, 01:54:02 AM »
I took a mirror and a flash light to make sure I had the right part number frame stands. The motor mounts are right. As far as I know the cross member is right? But can't say for sure. Any other ideas? Something is obviously not right..
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

z28z11

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2015, 03:02:02 AM »
The motor mounts are right. As far as I know the cross member is right? But can't say for sure. Any other ideas? Something is obviously not right..

I think the BB crossmember is offset compared to the small block - just slightly, but might be enough to clear. Checked your underside of the crossmember for the bolt opening ?
Just thinking -

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06

sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2015, 12:57:09 PM »
My car is an automatic. Are there two automatic cross members? SB and BB?
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2015, 01:00:33 PM »
Just read on the site that the Camaro and Firebird TH 400 cross members look similar but different. I am going to confirm I have the Camaro Cross member. Let you know.
Thanks
Lawrence
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

HawkX66

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2015, 02:35:47 PM »
My car is an automatic. Are there two automatic cross members? SB and BB?
Just read on the site that the Camaro and Firebird TH 400 cross members look similar but different. I am going to confirm I have the Camaro Cross member. Let you know.
Thanks
Lawrence
The 69 Camaro big block manual cross member looks almost identical to the Firebird cross member. The only visual difference I could find is the offset. The 69 Camaro big block auto cross member is completely different though.
Pics came from "TJs" if I remember right.



Dave
69 SS396 X66 L34 M21 BS
Z23 711 U17 Hugger Orange
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sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2015, 12:58:36 AM »
Looks like I have the correct cross member. I measured the distance from the inside of the frame rail to the mounting pad, and the passenger side is approx 1/2" closer than the driver side. So I must assume the offset is correct. Take a look at how close the manifold is to the steering box. Is the manifold deformed? This has me stumped.
Thanks
Lawrence
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

Mike S

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2015, 01:03:27 AM »
Can you see the casting number on the drivers side exhaust manifold? I believe it should be 3909879 if my memory is correct. That has a recess to clear the steering box. I'm assuming the steering box is not loose on the chassis.
Mike
67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Under restoration

HawkX66

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2015, 01:38:24 AM »
Did you measure the height of your engine mounts? You said you confirmed they're the correct frame stands too right? I have headers and even they aren't that close.
Dave
69 SS396 X66 L34 M21 BS
Z23 711 U17 Hugger Orange
Semper Fi! USMC 93-02

BSMIT59

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2015, 02:20:17 AM »
Crazy question but could the steering box be incorrect? Are castinings different for manual v power? Z28 v SS or standard shift v auto?
Barry     Old guy but still learning.....
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sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2015, 02:29:40 AM »
Did you measure the height of your engine mounts? You said you confirmed they're the correct frame stands too right? I have headers and even they aren't that close.
I bought the listed motor mounts from NPD. I assume they are right?
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2015, 02:31:31 AM »
Crazy question but could the steering box be incorrect? Are castinings different for manual v power? Z28 v SS or standard shift v auto?
Casting number is correct and the assembly date of the steering box matches the build of the car?
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2015, 02:41:47 AM »
Here is a picture from the top side showing the manifold and the steering box.
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

Mike S

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2015, 02:47:30 AM »
 Two questions:
1- "....but still have this annoying bumping of the manifold on the ps box."
   Judging from the above comment I assume this always occurred?

2- Does the fan look centered (Horz. and Vert.) inside the shroud or does it look off to one side.

Mike
67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Under restoration

sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2015, 03:05:38 AM »
Two questions:
1- "....but still have this annoying bumping of the manifold on the ps box."
   Judging from the above comment I assume this always occurred? Yes I had the incorrect non smog manifolds on the car which I thought was the source of the problem. I bought these manifolds and the issue was still there. I bought new motor mounts and put them on. It helped the issue but still there.

2- Does the fan look centered (Horz. and Vert.) inside the shroud or does it look off to one side. Hard to tell the car is on the lift and another under it, but I did look up in there and it looked centered. I did notice the bottom of the shroud is broken out.

Mike
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2015, 03:07:31 AM »
Can someone do me a a favor and snap a picture of correct distance between the manifold and the steering box?
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2015, 03:43:26 AM »
Did you measure the height of your engine mounts? You said you confirmed they're the correct frame stands too right? I have headers and even they aren't that close.

Starting to second guess the frame stands again...
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

Mike S

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2015, 04:20:47 AM »
 The frame mounts should have a part number on one of the flats.
 I wonder if you have 67-68 frame mounts instead of 1969.

Mike
67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Under restoration

sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2015, 12:08:37 PM »
I checked the part numbers and they are what is listed for 69 BB per this site. But this can't be that complicated...it must be the stands?
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

HawkX66

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2015, 12:25:58 PM »
I checked the part numbers and they are what is listed for 69 BB per this site. But this can't be that complicated...it must be the stands?
Just put a measuring tape to them and compare it to the measurements listed on the site. That's the only way you'll really know.
Dave
69 SS396 X66 L34 M21 BS
Z23 711 U17 Hugger Orange
Semper Fi! USMC 93-02

sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2015, 01:12:13 PM »
I checked the part numbers and they are what is listed for 69 BB per this site. But this can't be that complicated...it must be the stands?
Just put a measuring tape to them and compare it to the measurements listed on the site. That's the only way you'll really know.

Yep getting ready to go do that.
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2015, 02:47:33 PM »
Measured the stands the best I could and the passenger side stand is about .25 inches taller. I had also checked the part numbers on the stands a few months ago and they were correct.
Can someone post a picture of the correct distance between the manifold and the steering box?

Thanks
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

L78 steve

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2015, 06:13:36 PM »
I will take a pic. tonight. Its a 70 Nova but will be the same.
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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2015, 12:44:05 AM »
The space between the box and manifold is about one inch.
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L78 steve

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2015, 12:54:29 AM »
If the stands are re-pops they are not technically correct.
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z28z11

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2015, 02:19:45 AM »
Pics of the 941-942 NOS frame stands, I will measure for you if you need a comparison to yours. LH is noticeably taller - may be the problem. I had a pair of '68's that I traded off a longtime ago - definitely different heights -

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06

sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2015, 02:59:44 AM »
The space between the box and manifold is about one inch.
Thanks L78 Steve that gives me a good reference. Based on that I would have to assume the driver side frame stand is wrong? Not sure what else it could be?
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2015, 03:02:50 AM »
Pics of the 941-942 NOS frame stands, I will measure for you if you need a comparison to yours. LH is noticeably taller - may be the problem. I had a pair of '68's that I traded off a longtime ago - definitely different heights -

Regards,
Steve
[/quot
If you don't mind measuring for me that would be helpful.

Thanks
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

HawkX66

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2015, 01:07:24 PM »
Measured the stands the best I could and the passenger side stand is about .25 inches taller. I had also checked the part numbers on the stands a few months ago and they were correct.
Can someone post a picture of the correct distance between the manifold and the steering box?

Thanks
I don't have a pic with factory manifolds, but here's a couple decent pics of mine that show the height difference well and also the correct factory part number on the driver side. I also included measurements that I picked up off someone's thread a while back.





Dave
69 SS396 X66 L34 M21 BS
Z23 711 U17 Hugger Orange
Semper Fi! USMC 93-02

L78 steve

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2015, 01:54:39 PM »
The 941 and 942 stands are for Nova. The 113 and 114 are for Camaro. Not sure if any the difference.
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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2015, 02:00:14 PM »
Pics of the 941-942 NOS frame stands, I will measure for you if you need a comparison to yours. LH is noticeably taller - may be the problem. I had a pair of '68's that I traded off a longtime ago - definitely different heights -

Regards,
Steve
[/quot
If you don't mind measuring for me that would be helpful.

Thanks

The stands will have to be changed as a pair. If you change just the Left side the long bolt will probably not line up. The BB stands from what I can see raise up the left side and move the center line of the engine to the right 3/4 of an inch.
69 Z/28 Dover White. SOLD
67 SS/RS Mt. Green 1W,2LGSR,3SL,4K,5BY,07C. SOLD
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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2015, 02:23:12 PM »
 Studying the photos I noticed this is a convertible as evident by the floor brace.
Are you sure the clunk sound is not the pipe clearance rising into the tunnel by the brace? The reason I ask this is because on my 67 convertible I have a stainless exhaust made in the 80's and it just barely clears the brace front edge and causes a clunk when shifting so I had to shim the brace up using washers (I'm going to replace this during the current restoration).
  Also, can you at least slide your finger between the power steering and manifold? If so then the brace possibility may be a moot point.

Mike
67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Under restoration

sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2015, 11:36:48 PM »
Studying the photos I noticed this is a convertible as evident by the floor brace.
Are you sure the clunk sound is not the pipe clearance rising into the tunnel by the brace? The reason I ask this is because on my 67 convertible I have a stainless exhaust made in the 80's and it just barely clears the brace front edge and causes a clunk when shifting so I had to shim the brace up using washers (I'm going to replace this during the current restoration).
  Also, can you at least slide your finger between the power steering and manifold? If so then the brace possibility may be a moot point.

Mike

Mike, good suggestion and yes had that problem and have already fixed that problem, LOL. I can't slide much at all between the manifold and the gearbox. I have to assume that the stands are wrong? But I know I have confirmed the numbers on the stands a few months ago. I will look again.
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

z28z11

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2015, 05:42:10 AM »
The 941 and 942 stands are for Nova. The 113 and 114 are for Camaro. Not sure if any the difference.

Not according to my parts book, and Jerry's Definitive book, unless he missed it as well. Maybe consolidated/superceded after 1969, but MacNeish's part list has it as 941-942's.

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06

z28z11

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2015, 05:48:35 AM »
Pics/measurement of the 941-942's. Distance noted is the measurement from the bottom of the mount to the centerline of the bolt hole, a difference of .440". I have two pairs of these, both NOS, both are identical down to the stamped part number and details (I have no doubt they are genuine).

Hope this helps - good luck -

Regards,
Steve
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06

L78 steve

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2015, 06:03:11 PM »
The 941 and 942 stands are for Nova. The 113 and 114 are for Camaro. Not sure if any the difference.

Not according to my parts book, and Jerry's Definitive book, unless he missed it as well. Maybe consolidated/superceded after 1969, but MacNeish's part list has it as 941-942's.

Regards,
Steve

Interesting. I have never seen the 941/942's on any 69 BB.
69 Z/28 Dover White. SOLD
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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2015, 07:22:11 PM »
If it were me, I'd be looking at two things after reading all of this. 1. The manifold. How sure are you it is correct? I attached a pic of a correct one so you can see the # and a couple good reference shots.  2. Motor mounts. Not the engine stands if you've already looked closely at them which it looks like you have. Measure the mounts twice...







Dave
69 SS396 X66 L34 M21 BS
Z23 711 U17 Hugger Orange
Semper Fi! USMC 93-02

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2015, 09:29:34 PM »
The 941 and 942 stands are for Nova. The 113 and 114 are for Camaro. Not sure if any the difference.

Not according to my parts book, and Jerry's Definitive book, unless he missed it as well. Maybe consolidated/superseded after 1969, but MacNeish's part list has it as 941-942's.

Regards,
Steve

Interesting. I have never seen the 941/942's on any 69 BB.

Pretty sure that the 941/942's are the 113/114 superseded numbers (read as service parts) - probably after '70, 1 or 2, as these show up in my '74 printing GM parts books. Looking at my measurements, they correlate with the table listed earlier for bolt hole height pretty closely. By the way, the vendor was the same for both numbers as the stamp shown on the 113/4 mounts earlier in this post appears on both sets of mine (which is a relief). Sorry to digress - just trying to find the correct height. Someone pulled my originals before I bought the L78 -

Regards,
Steve 
1968 Z28 M21/U17 BRG/W
1969 Z28 X77/M20/VE3 LeMans/W
1969 L78 X66/N66 Cortez/BVT
1969 Z11 L48/M35/C60/C06

sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2015, 01:25:40 PM »
I bought the manifolds from Chuck (427 King) over at the Yenko site. I bought them a long time ago and I am sure I checked the casting numbers. I am a numbers freak so I doubt the manifolds are wrong. But I am second guessing myself. To be honest I have had mixed results regarding buying parts from Chuck. I recently bought a starter from him that was bad. He did offer to repair it provided I shipped the starter to CA to a rebuilder and paid to have it shipped back. So like $45 out of my pocket to be fixed. I have had it fixed locally. I have had good results with two other starters purchased from him however.
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2015, 01:47:27 PM »
Pics/measurement of the 941-942's. Distance noted is the measurement from the bottom of the mount to the centerline of the bolt hole, a difference of .440". I have two pairs of these, both NOS, both are identical down to the stamped part number and details (I have no doubt they are genuine).

Hope this helps - good luck -

Thanks for posting. I can't say I have that much clearance....

Regards,
Steve
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

Mike S

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2015, 02:05:59 PM »
 You should be able to see the manifold casting number from under the car. I think it should be 3909879 if my memory is correct. There is a manifold that looks very close to it but it doesn't have the proper cavity shape for the steering box clearance. I don't remember that number though.

Mike
67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Under restoration

sixt9x33rs

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2015, 11:27:56 PM »
I was at MCACN today and took a look at several original BB with PS cars. I think I may have the wrong exhaust manifold on the car. Will check it out next week.
'69 RS Z/28 Olympic Gold, 711
Flat hood no spoiler, black top, endura, 4:10
POP 39,000
69 X77 Z/28 69 711 Original Paint Unrestored
'69 X66 Convertible Cortez Silver 712 black top Endura, auto, bumper guards, am/fm rear speaker 44k miles

Fred Mertz

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Re: BB manifold still tapping PS box
« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2015, 06:28:15 AM »
If all else fails.  I would put a couple of washers between the left motor mount and the block.  That will raise the left side of the engine away from the steering box. :)